I need beta readers for my 6th m/m romance

Todd Young · Jul 16, 2014

I've just finished the second draft of my sixth Todd Young novel, Angel. I have two beta readers already, but I'd like as many opinions as possible.

I'm too busy at the moment to read a novel for anyone, but am prepared to edit a first chapter in exchange if that suits. I have two degrees, English lit and creative writing.

The cover will look something like this. It's being worked on.

Todd Young · Jul 20, 2014

I guess no one's interested, and honestly, my post sounds a bit rude. And arrogant.

When I say I'll edit a first chapter, I mean critique it properly and so on. I'm sure it'd be of value to you. My novel is pretty well okay to read I think.

BarbaraSheridan · Jul 21, 2014

It might help if you give a word count, turnaround time needed and more of a description than a cover provides.

ScarletWhisper · Jul 21, 2014

Many people will beta read without a reciprocal exchange. Your details are thin though. I might be interested, though your covers suggest your style might be too explicit for my personal taste. And your cover suggests a paranormal element?

If you give some detail on your story, you'll be more likely to find a good match with someone interested in your type of story. And if someone doesn't take you up on it this week, you can always bump your thread next week and see if someone has found some time for a beta read.

Blinkk · Jul 21, 2014

General rule of thumb:
You'll get much more feedback if you offer the same thing you're asking for. Asking someone to edit a novel and then offer a very small return (one chapter edits) is kind of a lame deal. If you don't have time to edit another person's novel, then you should ask the same question again a few months down the road when you do have time. These forums are about giving as well as receiving.

Todd Young · Jul 21, 2014

Blinkk said:
General rule of thumb:
You'll get much more feedback if you offer the same thing you're asking for. Asking someone to edit a novel and then offer a very small return (one chapter edits) is kind of a lame deal. If you don't have time to edit another person's novel, then you should ask the same question again a few months down the road when you do have time. These forums are about giving as well as receiving.

As I said, I'm prepared to edit and critique a first chapter. Given my experience, I think that's a fair swap. Angel is basically readable as it is. I simply want to be made aware of any problems.

This novel is a companion novel to Subject 19. It follows a secondary character from that novel, but it isn't a sequel. This is the blurb I have at the moment.

Angel has a disease. He doesn’t know what it is, but he knows where it came from. Hunter, who won Angel’s ass in a game of pool and then went on to infect him with some mysterious disease, with something that is off the radar, he said.

It’s only days since Angel left the institute and already the symptoms are starting to appear. He’s shedding skin and losing body hair and that’s just the start of his problems. Surfing’s out of the question now that salt water sears his skin, and his skeletal structure, the entire structure of his face and body appears to be changing. He doesn’t know it yet, but the pain beneath his shoulder blades is a pair of hampered wings.

Angel is turning into an … angel.

Which would make sense of Hunter’s jibe. “Think you’re an angel?” he’d said, after they’d finished in bed. “You’ll never be an angel.”

An angel? It simply doesn’t make sense. Not, that is, until a chance meeting with Finn. For Finn, who skates on the fringes of conventional life, the divine plague is nothing remarkable. He knows all about it. And he knows that if Angel ever wants to really be an angel, he’s going to have to find someone to love, a man he can bind with. Someone like Finn … or Jason … or Cole.

veinglory · Jul 21, 2014

I mean this in a helpful way, honest, because you probably don't mean to come across this way.

You are basically saying: "Because I am a better writer than you, I want you to do a lot of work for me, in return for me doing only a small amount for work for you."

Yeah, not a great strategy even with those people for whom it might be accurate, which might not be the overwhelming majority your post seems to assume given the general awesomeness of the forum members here--both in general and in this genre.

I suggest that you either ask people to help you out of the goodness of their heart, or offer a direct swap. Anything else basically slots people into the role of being your lesser, and I doubt many people feel like doing that unless they happen to already be a huge fan of your work.

If those fan readers are the people you seek, your own Amazon author pages, blog or whatnot would be the best place to seek them.

Unimportant · Jul 21, 2014

Todd Young said:
Given my experience, I think that's a fair swap. Angel is basically readable as it is. I simply want to be made aware of any problems.

I would guess that most people on AW who ask for a beta reader sincerely believe (correctly or not) that their book is basically readable as it is, and that they want to be made aware of any problems readers encounter.

As Vein said, your offer does come across as quite uneven and a bit condescending, unless you are a professional editor or big-name author with a fairly high profile in the genre (e.g. Cecilia Tan or Steve Berman).

Blinkk · Jul 21, 2014

Todd Young said:
As I said, I'm prepared to edit and critique a first chapter. Given my experience, I think that's a fair swap. Angel is basically readable as it is. I simply want to be made aware of any problems.

This implies that everyone on AW has lesser experience than you. Probs not a good way to make friends.

Viridian · Jul 21, 2014

... Well, personally, what turned me off from the first post was the lack of any details.

There are a lot of people looking for betas. The goal of posting here is, essentially, to entice a beta to pick yours. Unless I know how long the story is and what it's about, I'm not biting.

It's cool if you don't have time to critique a full-length manuscript for another person. Seriously. But no one is going to offer to help you just solely because you offered to critique a first chapter. I can post my first chapter here and get 3-5 critiques in exchange for literally nothing.

Blurb, word count, ect. First post.

Unimportant · Jul 21, 2014

ViridianChick said:
Blurb, word count, ect. First post.

Or a link to Share Your Work, where the opening scene can be posted for critique (and to entice readers). Most of what I've beta read here has been via me being enticed on Share Your Work.

"Show, don't tell" works with a lot of things!

Especially since -- let's face it -- having written six books isn't an automatic guarantee of being a good writer. Showing potential beta readers a vivid opening scene with active prose and realistic characters is a lot more effective than telling them they should assume it's good based on a total word count output.

Todd Young · Jul 22, 2014

Okay, I get it. I have advertised here and found beta readers and swapped my work on each previous novel. I really don't need to be lectured to.

My past experience is that I do a lot more work on a beta read than most people. In return, I have generally gotten far less than I have given.

I was offering a thorough edit and critique of a smaller sample of writing.

firedrake · Jul 22, 2014

Todd Young said:
My past experience is that I do a lot more work on a beta read than most people. In return, I have generally gotten far less than I have given.

This would put me off offering to beta read for anyone.

Given that I'm a freelance editor for an established e-publisher of erotic romance, you may have just missed out on some useful input, but I'm not going to read for someone with this kind of attitude.

Maryn · Jul 22, 2014

Not to pile on, but me either, for the same reason (except I'm not an editor).

Maryn, being antisocial to the humans in her space but friendly online

mmallico · Jul 22, 2014

Todd Young said:
Okay, I get it. I have advertised here and found beta readers and swapped my work on each previous novel. I really don't need to be lectured to.

It's better to remain silent than to go around snapping at people. The 'lecture' is not meant to hurt you, but to show you how people might take your posting. I'm sure you don't want to offend someone, but that's how it could come across. Take a deep breath, ok, and calm down.

My past experience is that I do a lot more work on a beta read than most people. In return, I have generally gotten far less than I have given.

I was offering a thorough edit and critique of a smaller sample of writing.

So you want to punish a new beta reader based on your prior experiences? How's that fair to them? I generally do a chapter by chapter beta to stop this kind of thing, if you are doing a one for one beta.

veinglory · Jul 22, 2014

When you find a good beta where you both benefit, you keep them. Rather than "punishing" future betas for the inadequacies of past ones.

Todd Young · Jul 25, 2014

I take it no one wants my critique, then?

Todd Young · Jul 25, 2014

firedrake said:
This would put me off offering to beta read for anyone.

Given that I'm a freelance editor for an established e-publisher of erotic romance, you may have just missed out on some useful input, but I'm not going to read for someone with this kind of attitude.

Right at the moment, two of my novels are in the top 100 ebooks, gay and lesbian erotica on Amazon. You might also have benefited from interacting with me, as, I was trying to suggest, might any writer.

Viridian · Jul 25, 2014

Todd Young said:
I have advertised here and found beta readers and swapped my work on each previous novel.

My past experience is that I do a lot more work on a beta read than most people. In return, I have generally gotten far less than I have given.

If you've done this for every previous novel and given so much... why don't you go talk to your previous beta readers? Or do you not have a positive working relationship with them?

Food for thought.

Todd Young · Jul 25, 2014

No, I think we're all getting on pretty well. As I said in an earlier post, I have two readers at the moment; I'm looking for more.

One of my better readers recently died. No conflict there.

Unimportant · Jul 26, 2014

Todd Young said:
No, I think we're all getting on pretty well. As I said in an earlier post, I have two readers at the moment; I'm looking for more.

That's great that you have two committed beta readers!

If you're looking for more readers, then, as noted above, it's possible you'll need to form new relationships from scratch. There are likely to be new authors who would feel their time for a full-novel beta read would be well compensated for by a professional full-edit on a first chapter -- but only if they know the person doing that edit and are familiar with their editorial capabilities. Folks here who are new to you won't have any idea if your abilities will suit their needs. You've noted that your books are selling well, but as we all know that does not necessarily equate with good editing skills -- or even good writing skills! ::cough Anne Rice cough::

But that still gives you a lot of options. Tell folks that you're looking for committed betas, as you (presumably) intend to write lots more books, and that you'll do a beta swap first-up and will negotiate beta-for-edit swaps on an ongoing basis after that. Or ask for beta swaps on first chapters, and see if you can find betas whose work is at a similar level to your own. Or participate in Share Your Work and show potential betas your editing skills, so that they'll know a beta-novel-for-chapter-edit swap is fair.

Or accept that in a matched beta-swap you may well give more than you get, but that's okay because it's 'paying it forward' to the community. That's what I do, since I beta novels but don't ask for beta reads in return. One author may get more than she gives, but I get paid back by the AW community in general, which provides me with endless information about trade and self publishing, cover art, and industry info, and of course also heaps of entertainment (albeit often of the train wreck variety). I've also had authors donate to Mac for the costs of running AW in return for my time as a beta, which is yet another option you could consider!

veinglory · Jul 27, 2014

Todd Young said:
I take it no one wants my critique, then?

On an uneven basis as proposed: no. I believe I have examined that. You previous beta threads did not cause this kind of response because you approached the collective us on an equal basis. You could start with that and adapt after you make contact, perhaps?

Todd Young · Jul 31, 2014

I really don't want to read back through this thread. I know I've made an idiot of myself.

I've released the book, but would still like to find someone to work with. If anyone's interested, let me know.

You can pick up a free copy of Angel at Smashwords with the free code: NL67Q

https://www.smashwords.com/books/view/463089

Angel’s spent the last three weeks locked in a medical facility, testing a new aphrodisiac. He’s picked something up, some mysterious disease, and now, he’s changing. His entire skeletal structure is wefting and warping, and according to Finn, he’s turning into an angel. Only catch is, in order to do that he has to find true love, and really, whoever heard of gay love?

I need beta readers for my 6th m/m romance

Todd Young

Todd Young

BarbaraSheridan

insert catchy phrase here

ScarletWhisper

Blinkk

Searching for dragons

Todd Young

veinglory

volitare nequeo

Unimportant

No COVID yet. Still masking.

Blinkk

Searching for dragons

Viridian

local good boy

Unimportant

No COVID yet. Still masking.

Todd Young

firedrake

practical experience, FTW

Maryn

Baaa!

mmallico

veinglory

volitare nequeo

Todd Young

Todd Young

Viridian

local good boy

Todd Young

Unimportant

No COVID yet. Still masking.

veinglory

volitare nequeo

Todd Young

I need beta readers for my 6th m/m romance

*insert catchy phrase here*

Searching for dragons

volitare nequeo

No COVID yet. Still masking.

Searching for dragons

local good boy

No COVID yet. Still masking.

practical experience, FTW

Baaa!

volitare nequeo

local good boy

No COVID yet. Still masking.

volitare nequeo

insert catchy phrase here