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nocomposer

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So I did my first Goodreads Giveaway June 1st, had 300+ people enter--one winner. I mailed him a book all the way to New Zealand...cost me a pretty penny. Strangely, I noticed soon after that someone is selling a used copy of my book on Amazon for $24...like...4 times what you can buy it brand new. Then I found this article:

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/janet-tavakoli/something-funny-and-fishy_b_2607883.html

Which is totally disheartening. The point of the giveaway was to attract new readers. Best it did was show my book cover/description in a list of other covers on a website that, for all I know, is nothing but resellers looking for free stuff.

::womp womp::
 
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jaksen

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Hi, nocomposer

I'm wondering if this is the right place for this, but perhaps since it is the 'Bewares...'

Also, this might be a good topic to open where people can discuss it? (That is, the entire giveaways program on goodreads.)

It might elicit some discussion, pros and cons, etc. I am sort of an active participant in the giveaways and have won a ton of books, all of which I kept, and every one of which I have given an honest review. (I suppose that's what the goodreads program expects and wants from its winners.)

Anyhow, interesting at any rate.
 

nocomposer

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jaksen,

Glad to hear there are legit readers engaged with the Giveaways. For my wallet's sake, I've decided to limit my next Giveaway to U.S participants.

We'll see what comes of it.

p.s. yeah, I put it here because of "Bewares[...]"
 

nkkingston

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Unless there's some sign it's the same person (it's shipping from NZ, for example) it's probably the usual used book weirdness on Amazon - companies advertise the books for more then they're worth on the off chance someone's daft enough to buy from them, then order the book from the publisher and post it on. There's all these algorithms running based on page views etc that mean the price goes up every time someone looks at the book, on the basis that if it's popular sooner or later Amazon will run out and someone will be willing to pay over the odds to get a copy.
 

veinglory

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Why do you assume that to be the same person?

Resellers with markups almost never have the product in hand.

And a Kiwi is pretty unlikely to be selling an item like an in print book through Amazon marketplace--if they are you can easily see it from the shipping info.
 

nocomposer

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veinglory/nkkingston,

This is great news. I saw one used and was all 'WTF?' and then the article I found provided the explanation I suppose I feared.

Thanks for the input. Made my day.
 

tlmorganfield

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I found an ARC of my novel for sale on Amazon, and when I did a little Google mapping of the two addresses winners provided in Washington state, I found the reseller was one of them. I was a little irritated by it, but thus far it's only one of the ten I sent out that I've found for sale. I did get two reviews from winners, but I spent a pretty penny sending out the books (a full half of them to international winners), so I don't think I'll be doing it again since the review-to-winner ratio was so low.
 

brainstorm77

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I use Goodreads giveaway program all the time for promotion. For me it's been great. Not everyone leaves a review in return, but many have. I do realize however that I cannot control what the winner does with the book. That's totally up to them. I'm not worried about them reselling it since I make very little from each paperback sale anyway. It's still a form of promotion because hopefully the book being resold will get into the hands of a reader who might eventually become a fan. That's how I look at it.

I've also won around 20 books through the program in the past year. I always leave reviews. Maybe that's why I win frequently.
 

MumblingSage

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Last I checked Goodreads does have some sort of algorithm that means more active reviewers are more likely to win giveaways (or was that for LibraryThing?). If true, it's a good system because books are more likely to go to people who are really willing to review them.

Still, I've found Goodreads giveaways are nice for getting people to 'add' your book but the follow up is not particularly good. I no longer plan to do international giveaways on Goodreads, simply because shipping gets so prohibitive (in the US I can use media mail rates for books, or ship directly from Createspace). I've given away ebooks internationally on LibraryThing, though. Still not a high success rate, but worth the small investment of time for me. I know reselling ARCs is a major faux pas, but frankly after the winner places a review I don't care what they do with the book. I like to think they'd keep it, but if they give it away or sell it...eh, it's theirs now.

I also sign up for tons of giveaways through Goodreads and LibraryThing...Perhaps too many. I've won lots of LibraryThing books and now have to work through the backlog to finish & post reviews of them, and I have too many books on my Goodreads 'to read' shelf to properly follow up on for years. I guess 'too much to read' is a good problem to have, though.
 

Fallen

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I was wondering how authors got on with the Goodreads' giveaway. I haven't done one yet were the main paperback is concerned.

I tend to stay within my genre reading groups (BDSM group, M/M group etc). I'll offer up a few ebooks for each Book of the Month that comes up on my work, or, in the BDSM group in particular, a giveaway for the buddy reads that go on with mine. I think because I'm a member there anyway and know a good majoirty, the rate/review return rate on giveaways is really good.

The cost is huge for paperback, so I tend just to stick to the ebooks, in smaller niche Goodreads' groups.
 

triceretops

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My latest YA dystopian (two books) were put on a Goodreads give-away list by one of my publisher's marketing assistants. When the dust settled, I had 1,100 participants and over 500 who joined the TBR list. I have no idea how good or average or bad that is. I never expected a give-away and have never had one before.

tri
 

Becky Black

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I did one Goodreads giveaway and wasn't impressed with the results. Several hundred people entered, but it seemed like many were doing so quite randomly, without knowing what the contents of the book were - and since it's m/m erotic romance that could mean a bit of a shock to some of them! LOL. I'm not saying they are all looking to get freebies to resell. Some might be. Many more are likely just people who love books and might as well enter for a chance to win a free one.

The winner certainly hadn't realised that was the type of book it was, so I can only hope he did put it on eBay/Amazon marketplace and a fan of the genre bought it.

There was no jump in the number of people marking it as read and reviewing/rating it later, so the people who didn't win didn't go on to buy it anyway.

Since then with my print releases I've done giveaways on blogs and guest posts that are aimed at fans of the genre. That way it seems more likely they'll be read, hopefully by a new reader to me, rather than languishing on someone's to read stack as "that free one I got off Goodreads". Fewer people enter, but at least I know they are people who are genuinely interested in the book.

I think the giveaways would work if your books have quite wide appeal, but if they're in a more niche genre, it's probably better to target specialist sites.
 

nocomposer

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Agreed, if they leave a review, I don't care what they do with it. Not at all concerned about the money.

I'll continue doing Goodreads Giveaways just for promotion's sake. I had 100+ folk mark my book as TBR based off one giveaway. That's better than 0.
 

J.S.F.

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My publisher at RegalCrest shipped me (from the USA to Japan) fifteen books of my first two novels with them, Twisted and Lindsay Versus the Marauders. I spent a fair amount of cash sending them to giveaway winners on Goodreads. Most of the recipients were kind enough to thank me...a few never bothered, and I don't think it was because they disliked the book. They just couldn't be bothered.

ARC's are so much easier even though they're not formatted properly (and they're not intended to be, AFAIK). If the giveaways turn out to lead to more sales, all the better, but I can only hope. Right now, I just have to keep writing.
 

brainstorm77

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Goodreads

I couldn't find an existing thread on here so I started this one.

Just a note to say that you can no longer add your own books to lists on Listopia anymore.
 

Becca C.

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That kind of sucks. How are some books going to make it onto lists otherwise? I guess you could ask a friend to add it. But still.
 

frimble3

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Was it possibly because some authors were adding their own books to every list they could find, with little regard to appropriateness?:Shrug:
 

brainstorm77

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Probably, but if you add your books to the right list I cannot see what was wrong with it. I tried to add my cowboy mm books to a list that was for cowboy mm books. I personally never cared if an author added their own books to specific appropriate lists because it helped me to find books of that theme that I wanted to read. I guess others felt differently and complained.

It won't do anything. All people will do is get their friends, other authors, or their street teams to add their books and vote them up. Making this rule does nothing.
 

Sage

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Yes, the type of author who was abusing the system will continue to abuse the system through friends or ghost accounts, and the type of author who would respect it will lose out. Sad.
 

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I always thought the Listopia Lists weren't for authors to use with their own works anyway. I've only added other author works I've liked...:Shrug:Gets confusing out there.
 

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If the author's book fits a list, I see no problem with them adding it to that list. It will stay at the bottom unless people like it, but at least it's on there, saying, "Yes, I'm a book that fits this category too."
 

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Beware! Goodreads librarians arbitrarily changed my book titles

When the third book was added to my series, a GR librarian decided that my first two book titles violated their librarian rules, and flipped my subtitles to be the titles and vice-versa. There are creative reasons why I set the titles for the first two books. I objected to their title corruption and was ignored. I pointed out that the ISBNs show the titles as they should be and all the retail outlets show my book titles correctly. I was then told that GR rules are 'different' and again stated my book titles violated their rules. When I asked exactly how the titles violated (a rather strong term implying that I deliberately set out to do that) GR rules I was sent a link to a page of the librarian manual. That page supported my titles. Their problem seems to be that my series name and titles of the first two books are the same (with a Book 1 subtitle) yet the rules specifically say that can be done. When I again objected I was told to take it to the support staff. When I pointed out that the librarian manual supported my titles and asked for a description of exactly what was wrong, the librarian moderator arrogantly closed the thread with a smart remark.

So I appealed to GR support. A GR Expert (that was her title) quickly returned my book title listings to agree with the ISBNs. I breathed a sigh of relief, but two days later the titles went back to the librarian's format. I queried the Expert and she said the librarians told her my titles violated the rules and they were setting them back to their way. If this GR Expert was truly an expert with the knowledge and authority to fix problems, why didn't she recognize the alleged violation? And why was the Expert overruled by the librarians? If the Experts on the support staff do not have the authority to fix an error, then what is their purpose? I appears that the librarian moderator intimidated the so-called Expert. When I asked the Expert what was wrong with my titles, I was sent the same page of the librarian manual with no further explanation. I pointed out again that the manual supported the way my titles were meant to be listed and asked for an appeal. Even though the Expert's email closes with "Please let me know if there is any way I can be of assistance" that was the last communication I have received. It seems to be the standard procedure now in the corporate world to simply ignore customer or author requests/complaints without explanation.

I was ready to launch a promotion campaign for the new book that included the first two books in the series, but with the titles situation I would be wasting time and money and only produce confusion to prospective readers. I should add that my first two books were on GR properly and without confusion for over two years. They are for sale in ebook and paperback on Amazon and other sales outlets, and the titles are displayed correctly on those outlets. Here's an example of GR fixing something that wasn't broken. The titles are not provocative in any of the -isms that are thrown about these days. So my third book languishes because of a wrong interpretation of GR rules, combined, it seems, with a petty tyrant's bullying need to prevail, irregardless of right or wrong. A bit of research turned up that GR has long been hostile to authors, especially independent authors. I started reading the librarian daily threads and there is a very clear arrogant aspect to their behavior.

So now I have my books listed incorrectly on the largest reader website. I did a search on the subtitles and over 100 pages came up. I went through the first 10 pages and my books were not there. A reader would hardly have gone that far before moving on to something else. The librarian said that a reader would just click the GR link to buy the book. But I know from my own experience that I often will have a few books to check on Amazon and go there, insert the title and see if the book interests me. I wouldn't find my books by doing that with the fake GR title. It would be logical to expect a reader's website to be helpful to match books to readers and not to cause confusion. GR librarians obviously believe that their interpretation of librarian rules are more important than the ISBN and the author's intention for the author's intellectual property to be displayed as intended. I am frozen out from getting help from the GR librarians (which now is the last place I'd go to for help) and the GR Expert has me on full ignore. I suspect what is going on is that GR depends on volunteer librarians to manage their database. GR management is bullied by the librarians because if the librarians are not backed up by staff, they would quit and GR would have a much larger payroll. Having book titles listed incorrectly is considered acceptable collateral damage to the author's intellectual property. It appears that expensive legal action is my only recourse.
 

CameronJohnston

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So, to get my head around this, you have two books with the exact same Main Title, and then they have different Subtitles, something like BOOK X, and then one has, say, 'Left' and one has 'Right' below it?
On Goodreads you had two separate entries displaying as 'Main Title'? And this BOOK X is what they have now turned into the series name and made the 'Left' and 'Right' the displayed book titles for your two books? (did you have a series name before this?)
 

cool pop

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Goodreads is full of crap. I hardly went to the site but will no longer return. When I checked my books last week all of them had been changed. Old editions were the only ones showing and all my new editions which I'd added over at least the last three or four years had either disappeared or been buried. It looks a mess and I have way too many books to fix it. I wrote Goodreads about their overzealous librarian. I have been a librarian there for years but I didn't know until recently my librarian status was revoked and I was shocked. They claim they don't intend for authors to be librarians for over a certain amount of time then why the heck do you make authors librarians? That makes no sense. Anyway, my Goodreads page looks horrible. Old covers mixed with new covers, new editions have disappeared and on top of that the "librarian" who fixed this put standalone books in series that don't belong there! Goodreads has really gone down hill since Amazon bought them and I won't be going back. No wonder most authors hate that place.

They screw things up and don't care then blame it on the authors. I think the librarian system is silly to begin with. Goodreads is the only site where people outside of the authors can edit their books. That should not be allowed. Done with Goodreads for good though I barely wasted my time going there.
 
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RoadTripDog

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When I wrote my first book, I kept writing the story (newbie mistake) and it was waaaay to long, even after major trimming. It is even a long story to tell why it happened that way. But it was all one cohesive story. Book 1 depends on Book 2 for the finish, so I published them both at the same time as:
The Roaring Road with the subtitle (clearly indicated on the cover) Book 1 The Road West
The Roaring Road with the subtitle Book 2 The Road East
They are not standalone books, it is all one novel and I have promoted them that way. The covers can be seen on the book website, link in my signature below. The title is very clearly the large name, the subtitles appear smaller in the right lower front corner and on the spine of the paperbacks. All the retail outlets list the books properly, only GR feels they are above the law when it comes to ISBNs and the author's intellectual property.

Since I have story plans for a six book series I named the series The Roaring Road right from the start, and listed the books as a series on the ISBN numbers. The first books were meant to be the leaders of the series. The librarian moderator changed the titles to:
The Road West, The Roaring Road series Book 1
The Road East, The Roaring Road series Book 2


The librarian manual says:
"An exception to this is when the series name is the primary or only title. In this case, the title may be formatted with series name and number as the title and any additional title text as the subtitle."
The third book is Road Trip Blues with the subtitle Book 3 of The Roaring Road Series
At least they didn't mess that one up.

With perfect hindsight I could have given Book 2 a completely different title, but that may not have helped librarian reading comprehension.

but my beta readers and people who have read the books have no trouble comprehending what the titles mean. I never had to explain it, as it is quite obvious to readers, maybe not so much to GR librarians. BTW I sold a lot more paperbacks than were sold on Amazon, so I had a lot of direct reader feedback, from people I sold the books to and never saw again, and those who delightfully gave me a running commentary as they read the books ("how will Laure get out of this?" was a common question).

I am (at least for now, who knows what GR will do to my status since I'm raising hell about this) a librarian since authors can be librarians if they ask for it, which I did two years ago. I never heard anything about it being time-limited.
 
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