Comparison Report from Authorearnings

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KMTolan

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I find the data a bit questionable, especially where small pub authors are concerned, but it's hard drawing a firm judgement when I'm just as biased as the report writer. I do wish this data had been presented by someone other than an author or publisher. Not sure how they conjured up the sales figures in any case.

Kerry
 

vrabinec

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I do wish this data had been presented by someone other than an author or publisher.
Kerry

:Shrug:Yeah, I'm not sure we're about to see a team of Norwegians in lab coats running out to do a study. This is kind of a private little war, and anyone posting any kind of numbers is probably going to be trying to prove a point. But if those numbers are even anywhere near close to being the truth, it's eye-opening.
 

Williebee

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I'm more amused and interested in some of the side effects of this campaign. (For some it is a discussion, for folks like the author of the link it has become a campaign to defend and gather followers for a belief.)

For example, from these discussions we may develop a distinction between "bestseller" and "best seller."

And perhaps a larger percentage of our kind may stop losing sight of the truth that, just as there is no one market, there is no "one best way" to reach all of them.
 

veinglory

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I think that there is an immediate narrowing of focus in comparing only bestsellers--making the data most useful to those who can confidently predict they will be in that bracket.

I think that an author who could confidentially predict their book would be a bestseller and sell similar high volumes whether it was trade or self published, would have good reason to go self.

But how many of are really facing that kind of decision?
 

shadowwalker

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I've given up reading surveys (in any field). One always has to look at who sponsored it/conducted it, what their motivation is (strictly looking for factual data or trying to prove a point), where/how they got their data (people deciding to voluntarily send it in versus properly done sampling), etc etc. And then, of course, the conclusions drawn - that's where things can really go askew. Again, this is with any survey/report.
 

Hoplite

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Let me get this straight:
The author of the article states that past data compiled by big publishing houses is flawed, largely in part due to that companies like Barnes & Noble and Amazon don't release sales data. The author then decides to use anecdotal evidence, personal experience, and the experience that others have chosen to share, and presents it as authentic....I have a bit of a problem with that. Also, none of those figures have margins of error. So what if indie books are rated higher on average than big publisher books? If the margin of error is plus-or-minus 1.00 then they overlap and there is no statistical significance.

Either way I found the article interesting. I've thought of self-publishing some short stories I have, but have held off because I'm too lazy to go through the efforts. It's much easier to email-sub, sit back, and wait while I have a beer.
 

amergina

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Hold on to your hats, everyone. The thread is moving (because Novels isn't the place for it).

ETA: Moved.
 
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Kylabelle

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Thanks, amergina.

vrabinec, thanks for including your own remark with the initial link post and also for staying with the thread.

As this is the third thread linking to this report, we're going to close any subsequent threads and direct people to this one.

Let's keep things civil and respectful toward all.

Thank you.
 

MacAllister

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A bunch of threads pointing to this site have popped up, that will be/have been locked, merged, or otherwise dealt with here on AW. HH apparently A small KBoard contingent apparently sent folks over to post the link to his newest venture. (And here's a big thank-you to the Kboard mod, by the way, for trying to discourage the trolling.)

So we'll be monitoring these threads closely, since HH sending Kboard people coming here (completely independently) for the purposes of "stirring things up" is hardly new -- and not particularly welcome.

So let's DO be rather careful in terms of the tone and content of our posts about this, folks. My level of tolerance for blatant trolling from infrequent visitors is going to be particularly low.
 
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vrabinec

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I think that an author who could confidentially predict their book would be a bestseller and sell similar high volumes whether it was trade or self published, would have good reason to go self.

But how many of are really facing that kind of decision?

This kinda made me blink a bit. Are you saying you think that, if an author thinks his books will sell a ton, he would be better off going self-pub'd, and if he thinks they won't sell that much, he should go trad (if he can, which is a big IF)?

I dunno. The indies who are hitting it big are jumping at the chance to sign with agents and publishers like Simon & Shuster to get the big paper book sales. I'm kinda wondering why it would be beneficial to go indie if they're jumping on that. Seems like the best deal an author can land is to go indie on the e-books, and go trad on the paper.
 

DoNoKharms

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Interesting speculation that the trad books get lower reviews because they cost more.

http://authorearnings.com/the-report/

As was noted in the previous thread, the data in this report seems pretty suspect, and certainly not statistically thorough. For example, on this point, I find it baffling the report doesn't consider the possibility that self-pub readers and trade pub readers are distinct groups with distinct standards of evaluation, which feels like a far simpler and more plausible explanation.
 

juniper

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The indies who are hitting it big are jumping at the chance to sign with agents and publishers like Simon & Shuster to get the big paper book sales.

Yes, it seems as if almost all of them are, including the ones who talk the most about "the revolution." So why is that overlooked by the self-pub fan club?

I have friends who have self published, friends who went with tiny micro publishers, and friends who were published by respectable small presses.

I don't think I personally know anyone who's been published by a Biggie Corp.

But I think most of them would have chosen that route, if there was a choice to be made.

I personally like the idea of making it big self-pub style and then being offered a contract by a Biggie. The best of both worlds - show you can do it yourself, then get the thrill of seeing the book in hard cover at the bookstore.

Do self-published authors remember physical bookstores? The ones I visit are still quite crowded at the check out stands. Yet for some writers, it's all about the Amazon numbers.

And maybe I'm just too cynical, but I think the Amazon royalty rates will drop dramatically in the next couple of years, once Amazon gains the market share they're looking for. They're in it for the money - not for the writers, editors, publishers, etc. A book to them is just another item to sell, like a spatula or a duvet cover.
 
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Hoplite

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As was noted in the previous thread, the data in this report seems pretty suspect, and certainly not statistically thorough. For example, on this point, I find it baffling the report doesn't consider the possibility that self-pub readers and trade pub readers are distinct groups with distinct standards of evaluation, which feels like a far simpler and more plausible explanation.

Yeah, the conclusions made are pretty one-sided. I had a similar reaction in the section discussing the differences in profit-margins between indie and big publishing:

I would expect indie authors to have higher margins, they're doing nearly all the work for production, marketing, distribution, etc. for their book. The advantage of a big publisher is that they do all that stuff for you, and as a result, need their own margins to remain profitable. Depending on your level of time-commitment, expertise, ability to sell, etc. it may perfectly well be worth it to give up some profit margin to have a publisher do that work for you. It'd be similar to an indie author paying an artist for cover-art, an editor to edit, and so on.
 

Williebee

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Seems like the best deal an author can land is to go indie on the e-books, and go trad on the paper.

Depends on the author. Depends on where that author is in their "popularity arc" for lack of a more dignified way of saying it. Also depends on what they write, what they are selling and what kind of platform/reach they have.

Too often people who are pushing a "this is the right way" to publish use examples that don't compare apples to apples.

Say Author 1 was a "nobody knows of them."

Say Author 2 was a "everybody knows and loves them." (or at least has hated them loudly.)

If Author 2 self-publishes on Amazon, everybody in the literary world is going to hear about it. Amazon is going to scream it at the top of their lungs. The media will talk about because it is Author 2. Author 2's fans will talk about it because "cool, there's something new to read from Author 2."

Meanwhile, Author 1 and ten of his "nobody knows us yet" friends have self-pubbed eleven books on Amazon, and everybody, including their family and friends is talking about Author 2. Sure, family and friends are also saying, 1 is an Author too! But how much reach do they really have?

How much reach might they have if a pub house put X amount of dollars behind promoting their book? Probably not even as much as Author 2 already has, sure. But most likely more than Author 1 has on his own.

When comparing authors to authors, and books to books, that context, the apples, matter.
 

alexaherself

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Too often people who are pushing a "this is the right way" to publish use examples that don't compare apples to apples.

Indeed. All too often they're not even comparing apples with oranges or bananas, either: more like comparing apples with Persian carpets or fish markets.

Recently I've seen people telling new, unpublished writers that "self-publishing must be better for them, and they can see that because even Lawrence Block has just self-published his latest book". Apparently it doesn't occur to them that Lawrence Block, being in his 70's and having written over 100 steadily selling books (many of them bestsellers, according to whose definition of "bestseller" you like) is in a rather different position from that of the people they're trying to "persuade". :rolleyes:

For some reason it seems to be difficult for some to acknowledge the reality that some books (and authors) are far better suited to self-publishing than others.
 

vrabinec

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A bunch of threads pointing to this site have popped up, that will be/have been locked, merged, or otherwise dealt with here on AW. HH apparently A small KBoard contingent apparently sent folks over from the Kboards to post the link to his newest venture. (And here's a big thank-you to the Kboard mod, by the way, for trying to discourage the trolling.)

So we'll be monitoring these threads closely, since HH sending people here for the purposes of "stirring things up" is hardly new -- and not particularly welcome.

So let's DO be rather careful in terms of the tone and content of our posts about this, folks. My level of tolerance for blatant trolling from infrequent visitors is going to be particularly low.

HH didn't "send" me or anybody else that I know of. I posted it here because I value people's opinion on this site, same as I value the opinion of the people over there. I don't see any problem with discussing it in both places. I don't think either group has a monopoly on wisdom and insight.
 

vrabinec

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Huh? No. I'm saying my response was to a post that accused HH of 'sending' people over here to stir things up. That's an "accusation aimed at one person personally" Just thought it was funny.
 

Sheryl Nantus

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Tells me that some people have way too much free time on their hands.

If you're a writer, write.

Don't spend time trolling other boards or encouraging others to come here and cause trouble. Because then you're not writing, you're trolling.

But what the hell do I know?

I'm just a writer.
 

Little Ming

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Huh? No. I'm saying my response was to a post that accused HH of 'sending' people over here to stir things up. That's an "accusation aimed at one person personally" Just thought it was funny.

I think there's some miscommunication here.

The "one person personally" Mac is referring to is this thread that was locked because that person was trolling. (see Mac's second link in that post)

In other words, it's not about you (vrabinec). ;)
 

Williebee

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HH didn't "send" me or anybody else that I know of. I posted it here because I value people's opinion on this site, same as I value the opinion of the people over there. I don't see any problem with discussing it in both places. I don't think either group has a monopoly on wisdom and insight.

I don't think anyone has a monopoly on wisdom OR insight. The proselytism and declamation is where it goes wrong.
 

vrabinec

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I think there's some miscommunication here.

The "one person personally" Mac is referring to is this thread that was locked because that person was trolling. (see Mac's second link in that post)

In other words, it's not about you (vrabinec). ;)

Ah, missed that one. Though, I'm not sure how the "It doesn't take much time on a forum.." post is relevant to that thread.

Anyway, I'd love to see some hard data, same as everyone else. Not gonna hold my breath, though. Still, if the numbers in the article are right, I'm happy that many indies are making money. I root for all of us to make money, in whatever way suits us.
 
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