Shot over texting - the trial.

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Monkey

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We had a thread a while back, now locked, about a former police captain who shot a younger man over texting in a theater.

That man has been held in jail without bond, and is now having a bond hearing. Because of this, more information on the shooting has come to light. According to witness testimony:

After more requests to stop using his phone, Oulson got up and threw a small bag of popcorn at Reeves, Turner said.

'Almost immediately the gun came out, the shot was fired and it went back into Mr. Reeves' lap,' Turner said.

Hamilton remembers Reeves yelling at his wife after the incident, after she said 'That was no cause to shoot anyone.'

'He leaned back around and stuck his finger out as to scold her and said, "You shut your [expletive] mouth and don't say another word,"' Hamilton testified.

Reeves officially plead not-guilty today to second-degree murder, with his defense lawyers arguing that Reeves was defending himself from Oulson, who committed battery by throwing an unknown object and a bag of popcorn at the older man.They also say Reeves is entitled to special legal protection because of his advanced age.

The wife who he told to shut her [expletive] mouth is now in court talking about what a sweet and wonderful man he is, how he's not a danger to anyone, and should be let out on bail. The man's daughter agrees.

I'm much more inclined to pay attention to Oulson's widow, who the article only says "was also in court," but whom appears to be sobbing uncontrollably.

ETA: Link http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...ng-exclaimed-I-believe-Ive-firing-pistol.html
 
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Lyv

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I was just looking for the thread.

I also saw this:

"I'll teach you to throw popcorn at me," an eyewitness recalled the shooter, retired Tampa police Capt. Curtis Reeves, saying.

The article is disjointed but it looks like a second witness heard him say something similar. The article also notes that surveillance video will be shown tomorrow. I don't know if it's from inside that theater or not.

I was reading about all the people testifying that Reeves doesn't have anger issues, but he sure did that day. Witnesses are consistent about that.
 

robjvargas

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I'm completely baffled by this guy's behavior. I have issues with the victim's behavior, too, but those issues don't come even in the same continent as justifying this.

Was there more taunting than this? Did someone else lead him on?

Mind you, having these questions doesn't mean either that Reeves didn't just lose it, nor that he's not just a creep who was a walking time bomb with that gun in his (proverbial or actual) belt.

It just makes no sense and my brain refuses to accept that for some reason.
 

Monkey

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Well, if he actually did say something to the effect of, "I'll teach you to throw popcorn at me," any claims he's going to try to make about being "assaulted with an unknown object" are going to go right out the window.

And the fact that he immediately stuck his finger in his wife's face and cursed at her while his victim lay bleeding doesn't bode well for him, either.

He strikes me as a "walking time bomb" sort of person, much like George Zimmerman. Someone who has it in their head that all you have to do is make a case that you felt threatened, and you can get away with murder. At the time of the shootings, I'm sure both men were just caught up in the heat of the moment - but there's a mindset behind carrying a loaded gun and shooting someone over a minor and avoidable altercation. Especially when you have ties to (or like to pretend you are) law enforcement.
 

Vince524

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If this guy has no violent history, I would start to wonder about his advanced age, IE maybe something like dementia.

While symptoms of dementia can vary greatly, at least two of the following core mental functions must be significantly impaired to be considered dementia:

Memory
Communication and language
Ability to focus and pay attention
Reasoning and judgment
Visual perception

Bolding mine.
 

Celia Cyanide

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I'm completely baffled by this guy's behavior. I have issues with the victim's behavior, too, but those issues don't come even in the same continent as justifying this.

That was the way I felt about it, too. I see why it upset him, and even so, I think texting in a movie theater is several notches below actually talking on a cell phone in a movie theater.
 

hester

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If some of the earlier news coverage is to be believed, this wasn't Reeves's first "incident" over texting in a theater. If I recall correctly, there was a story about an earlier incident involving a young woman who was texting and was asked to stop by Reeves. Even when she did stop, he behaved inappropriately (glaring at her, following her out of the theater when she went to the restroom).

Now take this kind of overblown rage and add a gun into the mix. However Oulson's behavior might have been construed, there was absolutely no reason whatsoever for Reeves to have brought a loaded gun into a movie theater, let alone use it.
 

Kaiser-Kun

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"I'll teach you to throw popcorn at me," an eyewitness recalled the shooter, retired Tampa police Capt. Curtis Reeves, saying.

I feel like a horrible person for, in the light of this tragic and completely unnecessary death, chuckling at what's got to be the lamest comeback ever.
 

Sheryl Nantus

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I believe his bond hearing is going on again today to see if they'll let him out.

I cringed when his daughter wept that he has really bad arthritis and loves working with his tools even though he can't do anything right now.

Seems he managed to hold a pistol pretty well.

:(

I do hope they hold him in jail until trial. And get a mental assessment done. I'm no doctor but if he's losing his temper so badly and so easily over texting to the point of shooting someone... there's something wrong there. He needs help.

And a good long time in jail if there's no underlying medical problem. I shudder to think of what this guy could have done if he saw a bunch of teenage girls texting away.
 

Lyv

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I believe his bond hearing is going on again today to see if they'll let him out.

I cringed when his daughter wept that he has really bad arthritis and loves working with his tools even though he can't do anything right now.
She also talked about him playing with her two-year-old daughter, which only reminded me of the Oulsons' little girl.

Yes, the hearing is back on today (Day Three). The video, which I just found out, includes the lobby, halls, and the actual theater in which the shooting occurred, will be shown in court.
 

Monkey

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There are a lot of little cues here that suggest, to me, that this was a man who felt like he had authority over others and lost his temper when he felt like that authority was being challenged.

Obviously, this texting incident was not about caring deeply about the other movie-goers experiences. Getting into even the sort of verbal tussle he did - much less shooting someone dead - is far more distracting than the little light on a cellphone screen.

Go back a little farther, and there's that other incident where he fussed at someone for texting in a theater... after which, he continued to assert his authority over them, appointing himself as some sort of watchdog of their behavior. Following someone on their way to the bathroom is creepy as hell, not to mention unnecessarily threatening. Why would he do that? If I were writing his character, I would think it was because he felt righteous and powerful when he asserted his authority over her, and consciously or (more likely) not, he wanted to continue feeling that way.

You can go all the way back to his daughter's testimony, talking about how strict and firm he was with her, but how he was always ready to take over when she needed something.

You can look at the career path he chose.

The man liked his authority.

Also, I'm reminded of two of my grandfathers, both of whom enjoyed considerable authority throughout their lives, but began to lose it as they aged. Others had to take more care of them, causing them to lose some autonomy, and they began to lose abilities they had once prided themselves on. In both cases, they became much more assertive and began to jealously guard what authority they had left, to the point of doing and saying things they wouldn't have dreamed of a few years before.

I know that security guards catch a lot of flak. They aren't seen as "real" police. They are often under qualified and usually not respected even by the teenagers they shoo away. To go from being an officer - especially a high ranking one - to being a security guard has to feel like a tremendous loss of respect. To lose the ability to do things you once enjoyed, and to lose your edge on top of it all probably felt like salt in a wound.

But it's easy to feel like a big man when you have a loaded gun in your lap.

And this was a man who knew the law. He may have immediately verbally identified the thrown object as a harmless bag of popcorn, ("I'll teach you to...") but what he told authorities was that he was "assaulted with an unknown object." In fact, immediately after the event, a witness (Hamilton) testified that the shooter told him, quote:
'I just got hit by something and look at my eye'.

But Hamilton says he didn't see any injury on Reeves' face.

"Something." Not popcorn. And he wanted to claim an injury.

To me, this reeks of someone who wanted to assert authority over others, not some harmless, confused old man who just got scared and caught up in the moment.
 

Sheryl Nantus

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To me, this reeks of someone who wanted to assert authority over others, not some harmless, confused old man who just got scared and caught up in the moment.

Which is why I hope he stays in jail and receives some sort of medical evaluation.

I can easily see him disappearing if he gets out thanks to his family and friends who are swearing up and down that he's a sweet old man who never did anything wrong...

... except leave the theater to retrieve a pistol from his car and return to shoot a man. And his wife in front of a whole room of people.

There's something wrong there.

:(
 

Kaiser-Kun

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... except leave the theater to retrieve a pistol from his car and return to shoot a man. And his wife in front of a whole room of people.

Who were sitting very close in rows. Small miracle this guy was the only one killed.
 

TerryRodgers

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The guy is a nut and should have never had the gun. The way it's unfolding I don't believe it should be 2nd degree murder either. It appears he has history. To me that's premeditated. All he needed was the victim.

I also don't care if he has dementia. My father-in-law has stage four cancer and the medicine put him into a premature dementia state. I took away all of his guns. You don't just wake up one day confused and angry. It happens over time. Plenty of time to detect and react.
 

Lyv

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Police have said that he didn't leave the theater to get his gun; that he had it in his pocket the whole time (despite the "no weapons sign" Mr. Law and Order passed to get into the theater).
 

Sheryl Nantus

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Police have said that he didn't leave the theater to get his gun; that he had it in his pocket the whole time (despite the "no weapons sign" Mr. Law and Order passed to get into the theater).

Thank you for the clarification!

That makes it worse, IMO. He goes to a MOVIE THEATER armed and ready?

I hope they throw him under the bus. He is not a man I want out in public.

Although, following the Twitter feed of his hearing, it doesn't sound good for him. Even his wife isn't supporting his version of the story.

Still damned scary stuff.
 

Lyv

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Wow, Sheryl, his wife sure isn't!


Thanks for the reminder that I could follow on Twitter (not sure if I can stomach it, as I'm streaming the live feed of the Florida man who shot into a carload of unarmed young men over loud music at a gas station.
 

Monkey

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Although, following the Twitter feed of his hearing, it doesn't sound good for him. Even his wife isn't supporting his version of the story.

I'd be interested in a link or quote. Not that I don't believe you - I totally do. I'd just like to read it.
 

tjwriter

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The guy is a nut and should have never had the gun. The way it's unfolding I don't believe it should be 2nd degree murder either. It appears he has history. To me that's premeditated. All he needed was the victim.

I also don't care if he has dementia. My father-in-law has stage four cancer and the medicine put him into a premature dementia state. I took away all of his guns. You don't just wake up one day confused and angry. It happens over time. Plenty of time to detect and react.

Unfortunately people fall into the denial/it can't happen to us trap and fail to do anything about the "sweet old guy" they know.

Not that it's an excuse, but it does cause some people to fail to take certain preventative actions.
 

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This case and the loud music case remind me that it's not always that a confrontation has been worsened because someone was armed with a gun. But that in some instances, confrontations occur in the first place because someone is armed with a gun and therefore is emboldened.

Some gun advocates may deny that they themselves have ever felt emboldened, that they would never escalate a confrontation simply because they've got the other guy out-gunned. But obviously some people would, do, and have. The right provocation on the right day (short of self or family defense) was all it took for them. I'm sure if you'd have asked either of these two shooters, they both would have denied all day long that they could ever step over that line. And yet, there we have it. Two more unwarranted gun deaths (and counting of course).

Life is long and filled with indignities and the confrontations that ensue. There are many instances when we have to show restraint. We can all overreact. Many of us have thrown up our hands when we should have walked away. But it takes so little time and effort to squeeze that trigger. You can't pull up, and depending on your marksmanship you can't take it back or change your mind. Every time there's one of these senseless and altogether avoidable shooting deaths, I see two victims. I'd bet that for all but the chronically angry, they'd love to be able to take it back.

Also I think it's worth noting that in both of these cases, a simple knife or a baseball bat would have been unlikely to do the trick. In both instances I'd put my money not on the shooters but on the shootees.
 

Williebee

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This case and the loud music case remind me that it's not always that a confrontation has been worsened because someone was armed with a gun. But that in some instances, confrontations occur in the first place because someone is armed with a gun and therefore is emboldened. /QUOTE]

Even with the follow on paragraphs, the contradiction in this statement is confusing. It's not the fact that someone has a gun, it is their mental state which is made available because they know they have a gun? Either way, no gun, no problem?

I don't know, if that isn't what you meant, please, maybe make another run at explaining your thinking?

Thanks.
Never mind. My bad. I didn't read closely enough.
 
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Vince524

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To me, this reeks of someone who wanted to assert authority over others, not some harmless, confused old man who just got scared and caught up in the moment.

Dementia doesn't = scared & confused. It could = lose of judgment in terms of how much aggression is called for and a lack of a sense of reality. The earlier incident, (I'm only reading about it here and don't have time to really look it up) could be symtomatic of the same thing if it were fairly recently.

Not that I'm defending him or saying this is the case. But it needs to be looked at by a professional. I believe dementia is something that can be diagnosed and isn't an opinion kind of thing.

My guess is that he's going away, but where he goes to may be determined by those findings.

Personally, I can't imagine getting upset at all over someone texting during or before a movie as long as their phone was on silent.
 
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