Antagonists.

HeavilyMedicated

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How "present" must they be? Is this one of those things where one's mileage might vary and I'm asking a stupid question?
 

rwm4768

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Antagonists are as present as they need to be in a story. Not very helpful, I know. Some stories work with antagonists who get very little page time (e.g. Sauron in Lord of the Rings. In fact, I'm trying to recall if we ever even got to see him.). Other stories require a more involved antagonist.

It all depends on what story you're trying to tell and how involving the antagonist in your story does or does not help you toward that goal.
 

Blinkk

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rwm is spot on. There's no set rule. My antagonist doesn't appear until the second to last chapter. He's got very little screen time. But the characters are constantly talking/worrying about him, so even though he isn't physically present, he's present as a lingering thought.

I have another story where the antagonist appears in the second chapter and has lots of appearances. She actually appears in nearly every scene. If not an appearance, she's mentioned.

It really depends on the story.

PS - no stupid questions here. This forum is for learning. :)
 

IncredibleSlime

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I have a natural mistrust of hard and absolute rules myself...

Not that I'm some sort of pioneer or anything. ;)
I've always figured that if the bad guy works for the story then he's A-Ok.
 

_Sian_

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Depends what you mean by "present" and "antagonist"

I don't have a firm antagonist at all in my current WIP. It doesn't need one - it's a political drama at heart, and everyone is everyone else's antagonist. That's the whole point - it's about the shifting motivations of all involved and how politicians can be totally opposing in one bit and together the next, as circumstances allow. There's "My team," "Everyone else" and the grey bit in the middle where people from "everyone else" can help due to their own self interest. Who you can trust becomes much more of an issue than anything else.

So I don't think you need an antagonist. I think you need antagonistic forces, for sure. But depending on what's going on, a characters main advisor can be an antagonistic force. Whoever prevents your MC from getting at their goal is an antagonist. As for "present" - I think antagonistic forces should always be present, but not always physically there. If things are hard for the MC because of character A, then character A is present. As they should be. But they could also be dead and gone and this could be their legacy.

At the end of the day, I think it depends a lot more of what type of book you're writing, and the promises you're making to the reader from the get go. As long as you don't lead them to believe there's going to be a arch nemesis, I don't think you need one. YMMV
 

ZerosJourney

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Like everyone else has already said, it depends on the story.

That being said, I have a personal weakness for well-developed antagonists, which usually (but not always) requires them to be more "present." Indirectly, at least. One of my novels has the antagonist present from very early on and quite frequently. He's even a POV character. In my other novel, the primary antagonist is present at the start and at the end. While he doesn't physically appear in the middle, the characters are talking about him, visiting his office, learning about his past, ect. He's not quite a POV character, but because of the magic system, his thoughts occasionally leak into the narrator's consciousness.

There are lots of books I've loved similar to my second novel. The antagonist doesn't physically appear very often, but he's an emotional presence for the characters, which works just as well--sometimes better.
 

Vella

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IMO, an antagonist should be present in their effect on the plot and on the protagonist - that is, they should be there, messing things up, even if it's not clear who they are exactly, or even if they're a single, specific person.

Physically present? Well, that's an entirely different kettle of fish. There's where the YMMV comes in. Whatever works for your story.
 

JFitchett92

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My antagonist and protagonist never actually meet. There is lots of chatter about the antagonist, but he doesn't really appear until the very end where he is killed.

There isn't really a set rule, just whatever works best for the story.
 

thedark

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I agree with the other posters. My novel's antagonist is physically present in almost every scene with the MC, but then, he is her captor and that's what fits the plot line best. When he isn't present, he's damned close in her mind. Every action she takes is in reaction to him.

I like mysterious force antagonists as well, as a reader. They are present in the minds and reactions of the protagonists, and that makes them potent and tangible to the plot-which is what I look for in a story.
 

DeleyanLee

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Remember that an antagonist is whatever person or force is opposing the protagonist's efforts, so there's likely to be lots of characters who do that in little ways throughout the story. Whether or not you have The Antagonist (sometimes known as the villain) or not depends on the story.

Something should be thwarting your protag's efforts on every page of the book, but it doesn't have to be The Antagonist or any one individual. I always enjoy it when it's protags just messing up and impeding their own progress, for instance.
 

TomW22

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There was a really good thread in this section a month or so ago about villains which may be helpful to you here.

I agree with what virtually everyone here has said. It's entirely down to what makes sense for your story.
 

scifi_boy2002

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In my first novel, The Galactic Seven, the villain, named Lotrell, is in the first chapter, but he does not reappear until near the final chapter. I've never had any reviews saying it was a bad thing. When writing the novel, I did not really think about it. It was only later, after the book came out, that I realized Lotrell was missing in most of the book. I guess it is a prime example of what others have been saying here. It depends on the story.
 

HeavilyMedicated

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Thank you for your responses.

I was talking about “physical” presence. This character is introduced in the first chapter, as I have it planned. I wasn't sure if she appears enough throughout until a certain twist, but I don't want to force it. So I think what I have is fine.

Again, thank you.
 

Nivarion

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My first trunk novel had no antagonist. Everyone was "the good guy" and everyone had a pov. They just had mutually exclusive good guy goals.
 

LOTLOF

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My first trunk novel had no antagonist. Everyone was "the good guy" and everyone had a pov. They just had mutually exclusive good guy goals.

I'm curious, did your story have very much conflict in it? Truthfully I've always felt the antagonist / villain to be the most important character in my story. Even more so than the protagonist / hero.
 

GhostWhoWalks

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I'm curious, did your story have very much conflict in it? Truthfully I've always felt the antagonist / villain to be the most important character in my story. Even more so than the protagonist / hero.

It's entirely possible for there to be conflict in stories where everyone is a "good guy"; if the various heroes are working at odds with each other, for every character who is a protagonist, there is another character who is their "antagonist" and so on. While they all might be ultimately good people with good goals, when those goals are mutually exclusive, things can get pretty heated. First example that comes to mind (though it probably isn't the best example) is the Civil War story arc Marvel ran a few years ago. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marvel_civil_war
 

Laer Carroll

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The antagonist is anything which impedes the hero toward her goal. Not mentioned so far are

  • large impersonal forces such as the physical environment (animals, viruses, weather)
  • large personal forces of the social environment (racial, sexual, political, religious)
And I second the internal antagonist, as in She was her own worst enemy.

A special case is in romance, where the two MCs are antagonists but not really enemies - though they may start out that way