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I registered on Critique Circle a few years ago, but I never really liked it. The site is too bloated for my liking and the queue system did my head in.
 

Freya Yuki

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I'm on Critique Circle. I've found it helpful. Also, for the womenfolks, I appreciate that CC has a block function that actually blocks.

TL;DR thank you for being cool, Critique Circle.

I've also found Critique Circle helpful. Haven't used its block function yet.

You're right guys.

The good thing on CC:
* You can put the whole chapter there at once

The bad thing on CC:
* You must wait for your turn. (Don't ask. Those, who have experience on CC, they can explain.)

Yeah, I like CC and don't mind the wait if it's just like a week, but sometimes you end up having to wait for two or more weeks before your work gets critiqued. I wish more stories could be in the queue and/or that everyone could get a free pass even if it costs a lot of credits.

I registered on Critique Circle a few years ago, but I never really liked it. The site is too bloated for my liking and the queue system did my head in.

One of the only things I don't like about CC is having to wait weeks before your story can be critiqued. Sometimes, you'll have to submit stories months ahead of time because all the slots fill up so fast.
 

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Sometimes CritiqueCircle is a month's wait. Scribophile is probably about ten days, and shorter if you've joined groups.

Joining groups might be the way to go for CritiqueCircle, too, to get more people reading your submission before it's up in the queue.
 

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I've been using Cc and scrib. I prefer cc better content, friendly people.
 

LucindaLynx

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The thing I do like about it is that people critiquing can't see the other comments so there's less worry about any 'bandwagon' effect and when each person points something out, it's definitely something that needs fixing.
Well, things have changed a bit. Now the writer can see all the feedback at once. She can see A's, B's and C's feedback at the same time. It has its good sides. One can see one's problems quite well, if two or more says about the same thing.
Best,
Lucinda
 

Lee McClellan

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I poked around, without actually signing up ( try not to be on 1,000 different sites ), on Critique Circle. Seems doable, but could anyone provide a little more info on how the credits?

I am almost happy to critique and/or BetaRead. But if my novel is a 140k Epic Fantasy could you give me any indication how well that might work on CC? Would I need to critique 1400k words to have enough credits? Or more?

Would I have to break my novel into tiny bits, each with 2-4 weeks wait time in-between?

Quite curious. Would love any insights.

Thanks as always,
Lee.
 

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That fits my limited experience... a lot of critiquing up front, each batch of which is on a weekly schedule, then you go in the queue, then your piece is up for crit.

I was put off by the first critique I received, 2017. I was critiqued (attacked) for using apostrophes in my character names. (Like d'Artagnan.) The critique said: "Who do you think you are? Tolkien?" That reviewer then said, "If you want to learn to write, go to my website and buy my book."
 
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I've found critique circle very helpful and friendly. People there don't sugarcoat what they think needs fixing but in my experience they're never rude about it. That said I've met a few people in their forums with... lets just call it 'controversial' opinions and move on. I don't use them anymore, but still go to other parts of the site when I think I could use some help with my writing.
 

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I've been exploring Critique Circle for a couple of days, but I noticed something today that I hope I've misinterpreted. Is it true that if you want to get a novel critiqued (one chapter at a time) you have to pay for the Premium account?
 

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One reason I gave up on Critique Circle after about two months was that navigating the site was near impossible for me. I wouldn't be surprised if it's unclear as to whether that is a requirement or not.

There were other reasons I gave up on it. Some people love it.

I'm a big believer in reading at the moment. It seems more conducive to the goal of learning to write better than the somewhat subjective and random quality of stranger-critique.

If you do decide to pay to get a novel-length work critiqued, I would recommend you consider all the options available. There are reportedly some good services out there. If you want to get that critique for free, it often works better on a swap basis, which you already know, since you are looking into communities with this philosophy.
 

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I've been exploring Critique Circle for a couple of days, but I noticed something today that I hope I've misinterpreted. Is it true that if you want to get a novel critiqued (one chapter at a time) you have to pay for the Premium account?
IMO, if you're going to pay for a novel critique, you're better off hiring a professional editor (who is familiar with your genre and who has a strong track record of getting authors published) to do a substantive and/or line-edit, depending on what the ms needs. I think @gtanders did that recently and found it a worthwhile investment with a quick turnaround time (as was, I understand, hiring current/ex literary agents to assess their query letter).

Regardless, though, I'd advise you (sorry if I'm teaching your grandmother to suck eggs here) to "vet" your prospective editors/beta readers. Take a look at critiques they've provided for other people. Is their style something you could live with? Are they catching the kinds of ooopsies or confusing bits in other people's work that you want them to find in your own? Ask them to crit your first page or first scene or first chapter. Do they respond in a timely manner? Is their critique thorough and helpful and of use to you? If yes -- and if the reactions are vice versa if you're planning to do a beta swap -- then commit to a full novel beta read and a timeline.
 

CMBright

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I've been exploring Critique Circle for a couple of days, but I noticed something today that I hope I've misinterpreted. Is it true that if you want to get a novel critiqued (one chapter at a time) you have to pay for the Premium account?

It's been over a year since I left and didn't look back at that site.

As I remember, one posted short works, I don't remember a word count. I don't remember if chapters from novels mattered or were posted differently than short stories as long as the length was similar.

I do remember that one "bought" critiques by critiquing other works through the search feature. I think it was three check marks critiquing others to get one of mine critiqued.

I was not comfortable being forced to critique others when I did not feel qualified. I was not comfortable being critiqued by others who might feel the same but be doing it just to get the required number of check marks to get their own work critiqued.

I remember it being free, novels as well as short stories. But it was over a year ago and policies might have changed over time. Free or paid subscription, it might be exactly what a different writer is looking for.

For me, in my opinion, even though it was free, it was not worth my time investment or other intangible costs it might have had over time. My experience was leaving and not looking back.
 

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I do remember that one "bought" critiques by critiquing other works through the search feature. I think it was three check marks critiquing others to get one of mine critiqued.
It's not an unusual model. Critters does something similar. So does Viable Paradise. When I co-admin'd a niche-genre writing forum with a critique section, I also had a crit-to-be-critted requirement; otherwise, the long-term members ended up doing all the thankless critiquing work for fly-in, fly-out newbies who came only for what they could get out of the community and refused to contribute a single thing. AW can get away with it, I think, because it's so much bigger.
I was not comfortable being forced to critique others when I did not feel qualified.
The thing is, if you feel your work is good enough to be critiqued (with the hope of eventually selling it), you must have some confidence in your abilities. Whether that's big-picture stuff or novel ideas or strong grammar, any of those are aspects that you can apply to critique of other people's work. Honestly, pretty much all writers never feel qualified. If they get to the point that they feel they know it all, they won't be joining critique groups.
I was not comfortable being critiqued by others who might feel the same but be doing it just to get the required number of check marks to get their own work critiqued.
But, in the end, writers are all readers. And reader reactions are priceless. Even readers who don't know diddly squat about the craft of writing.

Caveat: I have no experience with Critique Circle so I can't recommend or not-recommend it, just saying that crit-to-be-critted is an established model, and requiring authors to write crits really does improve their writing (and critiquing) skills, which is a desirable outcome.

ETA: All just IMO. This is not a hill I'm willing to die on.
 
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CMBright

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It's not an unusual model. Critters, IIRC, does something similar. When I co-admin'd a niche-genre writing forum with a critique section, I also had a crit-to-be-critted requirement; otherwise, the long-term members ended up doing all the critiquing by the fly-in, fly-out newbies who came only for what they could get out of the community and refused to contribute a single thing. AW can get away with it, I think, because it's so much bigger.

The thing is, if you feel your work is good enough to be critiqued (with the hope of eventually selling it), you must have some confidence in your abilities. Whether that's big-picture stuff or novel ideas or strong grammar, any of those are aspects that you can apply to critique of other people's work. Honestly, pretty much all writers never feel qualified. If they get to the point that they feel they know it all, they won't be joining critique groups.

But, in the end, writers are all readers. And reader reactions are priceless. Even readers who don't know diddly squat about the craft of writing.

Caveat: I have no experience with Critique Circle so I can't recommend or not-recommend it, just saying that crit-to-be-critted is an established model, and requiring authors to write crits really does improve their writing (and critiquing) skills, which is a desirable outcome.

Good points, all of them.

For me, it was critiquing specifically that I felt unqualified for, not my writing. Whether that writing was ready or not. My writing might not have been. In my opinion, at least one of the stories I read was not ready yet. Another, one I didn't critique, was multiple chapters of a novel that I wanted to read in its entirety, because it was well writen and interesting. I didn't know it was possible to critique by saying I thought it was good and had no ideas on making it better.

For me, being able to chose to crit or not gave me the freedom to feel I could give feedback at a level I was comfortable with rather than feeling like I was filling out a form I was obligated to fill out.

Then again, I hated the old survey workerss who'd grab random people passing by in malls back in the day and filling out feedback forms for my college professors. I got very good at 'don't even ask' body language with the first and tended to mark all three's in the 1-5 questions on the other. Not very helpful at improving marketing, teaching or writing.

The reasons behind the model are reasonable. Even if it is free to participate, the intangible costs of the model can be deal breakers for some aspiring writers.
 

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For me, it was critiquing specifically that I felt unqualified for, not my writing.
Okay, genuine question here: How did you (or how does anyone) learn to critique to the point where they do feel qualified? Is it by a) becoming a better writer with better skills in the craft which then translates to knowing how to critique; or b) by reading but not participating in a critique system to absorb how to/how not to critique; or c) by actively critiquing, starting with crappy ol' "this wuz gud" or "it made me laugh" and working up to comments on characterisation, pacing, etc?

When I first started critting, twenty five years ago, it was because I'd written my first short story, got it rejected, and the editor (bless you, Steve Algieri) recommended I join a critique group. So I did. My first critiques were solely comments on grammar, spelling, and punctuation, because that's all I knew. I had zero clue about the craft. Reading other people's critiques of the same stories I'd critted was an eye-opener. Getting critiques on my own story was highly instructive as well.

And, while my SPaG critiques were not nearly as useful to the authors as in-depth structural edits, they did still have value. I critted a novel for one author solely for SPaG (cuz that was still all I knew) -- the author had written a very good book but was dyslexic and couldn't copy-edit prose. My very prosaic ability to perfect the English got them over the hump to publication.

Critiquing, like writing, is a craft that is honed over time, but IMO you have to start somewhere, and nobody starts out as an expert, and all genuine feedback is useful.

For me, being able to chose to crit or not gave me the freedom to feel I could give feedback at a level I was comfortable with rather than feeling like I was filling out a form I was obligated to fill out.
I agree that it's preferable to be able to choose the pieces you crit, rather than being assigned.

But this is a soapbox of mine, I know. Particularly in Query Letter Hell. The mindset that "I have written a novel that I think is good enough for Random House, and I have written a query letter that I am actively sending out to agents but want to polish a bit more since I haven't had a great hit rate, but I don't know enough to critique anyone else's query letter" is just not something I can wrap my head around. It's like applying to go to a Cordon Bleu cooking school and proclaiming that you're ready for a job at a five star Michelin restaurant while saying that you don't know enough about cooking to taste somebody else's pasta dish and let them know whether you think it's too salty.

Perhaps I'm just lacking the ability to empathise, and most certainly I am a cynical, judgmental beeyotch, but to me, the I-will-take-but-I-can't-give-back position is always a cop-out.
 
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Maryn

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I'm never a fan of "Oh, help me, help me--but goodness no, I can't help anyone else, I'm not qualified!" That's just a User post.
 
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CMBright

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Okay, genuine question here: How did you (or how does anyone) learn to critique to the point where they do feel qualified? Is it by a) becoming a better writer with better skills in the craft which then translates to knowing how to critique; or b) by reading but not participating in a critique system to absorb how to/how not to critique; or c) by actively critiquing, starting with crappy ol' "this wuz gud" or "it made me laugh" and working up to comments on characterisation, pacing, etc?

When I first started critting, twenty five years ago, it was because I'd written my first short story, got it rejected, and the editor (bless you, Steve Algieri) recommended I join a critique group. So I did. My first critiques were solely comments on grammar, spelling, and punctuation, because that's all I knew. I had zero clue about the craft. Reading other people's critiques of the same stories I'd critted was an eye-opener. Getting critiques on my own story was highly instructive as well.

And, while my SPaG critiques were not nearly as useful to the authors as in-depth structural edits, they did still have value. I critted a novel for one author solely for SPaG (cuz that was still all I knew) -- the author had written a very good book but was dyslexic and couldn't copy-edit prose. My very prosaic ability to perfect the English got them over the hump to publication.

Critiquing, like writing, is a craft that is honed over time, but IMO you have to start somewhere, and nobody starts out as an expert, and all genuine feedback is useful.

I agree that it's preferable to be able to choose the pieces you crit, rather than being assigned.

But this is a soapbox of mine, I know. Particularly in Query Letter Hell. The mindset that "I have written a novel that I think is good enough for Random House, and I have written a query letter that I am actively sending out to agents but want to polish a bit more since I haven't had a great hit rate, but I don't know enough to critique anyone else's query letter" is just not something I can wrap my head around. It's like applying to go to a Cordon Bleu cooking school and proclaiming that you're ready for a job at a five star Michelin restaurant while saying that you don't know enough about cooking to taste somebody else's pasta dish and let them know whether you think it's too salty.

Perhaps I'm just lacking the ability to empathise, and most certainly I am a cynical, judgmental beeyotch, but to me, the I-will-take-but-I-can't-give-back position is always a cop-out.

A bit of a tangent, but on AW, I can crit at the level I feel comfortable as I feel comfortable. I can chose how fast I push myself. Because I don't feel forced into it, I am able to trust others to be honest instead of feeling like they have to find something wrong with my work.

When I joined both, I joined them either on the same day or I joined the other the next day. Unless it was an assignment to answer a set of questions in a creative writing class, I'd never critiqued before. That was why I felt unqualified. As others took the time to answer questions, I came to change my understanding of what a critique was. It wasn't a list of questions to attempt to fill out, finding things wrong so the writer could improve in those areas whether that individual felt qualitied or not.

Part of my issue with the model is that I didn't trust other critiquers because I didn't trust my ability to critique. Because I didn't understand that part of critiquing was pointing out what worked as well as what didn't.

To use your analogy, I didn't think I was qualified because I can't imagine being able to discuss balancing acids with spice levels in seafood bisque.

I was willing to learn. I felt welcomed enough to feel comfortable learning. Instead of getting dumped into the deep end of the pool.

As I've learned, I've grown more comfortable. I know if I enjoy something or if I don't. I still lurk more than I post critiques. I often preface them with a caveat that this was my reaction when I do add my own opinion. But I'm getting more comfortable, both in my ability to critique others and being able to read others critiquing my own work.
 

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It's been over a year since I left and didn't look back at that site.

As I remember, one posted short works, I don't remember a word count. I don't remember if chapters from novels mattered or were posted differently than short stories as long as the length was similar.

I do remember that one "bought" critiques by critiquing other works through the search feature. I think it was three check marks critiquing others to get one of mine critiqued.

I was not comfortable being forced to critique others when I did not feel qualified. I was not comfortable being critiqued by others who might feel the same but be doing it just to get the required number of check marks to get their own work critiqued.

I remember it being free, novels as well as short stories. But it was over a year ago and policies might have changed over time. Free or paid subscription, it might be exactly what a different writer is looking for.

For me, in my opinion, even though it was free, it was not worth my time investment or other intangible costs it might have had over time. My experience was leaving and not looking back.
Thanks! I'm going to stick with it for a while until I get a sense for myself as to its usefulness, but I'll take what I get with a grain of salt. I'm having many of the same concerns you describe.
 

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IMO, if you're going to pay for a novel critique, you're better off hiring a professional editor (who is familiar with your genre and who has a strong track record of getting authors published) to do a substantive and/or line-edit, depending on what the ms needs. I think @gtanders did that recently and found it a worthwhile investment with a quick turnaround time (as was, I understand, hiring current/ex literary agents to assess their query letter).

Regardless, though, I'd advise you (sorry if I'm teaching your grandmother to suck eggs here) to "vet" your prospective editors/beta readers. Take a look at critiques they've provided for other people. Is their style something you could live with? Are they catching the kinds of ooopsies or confusing bits in other people's work that you want them to find in your own? Ask them to crit your first page or first scene or first chapter. Do they respond in a timely manner? Is their critique thorough and helpful and of use to you? If yes -- and if the reactions are vice versa if you're planning to do a beta swap -- then commit to a full novel beta read and a timeline.
Thanks! I've posted the first chapter of a WIP to Crit Circle just to see what happens. I've been trying to find low-cost (read: "free") options for things, but I'm coming to realize that you get what you pay for in this situation.
 
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CMBright

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Thanks! I'm going to stick with it for a while until I get a sense for myself as to its usefulness, but I'll take what I get with a grain of salt. I'm having many of the same concerns you describe.

As I said, my personal experience then. It might have changed since, I don't know.

And to be fair to those who did crit the one work I submitted over in CC, I did receive similar criticisms when I was able to have my work critiqued here.
 
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As I said, my personal experience then. It might have changed since, I don't know.

And to be fair to those who did crit the one work I submitted over in CC, I did receive similar criticisms when I was able to have my work critiqued here.
I can't help but think that soliciting critiques should be more like a dating service: You shop around until you find one or two people that you can communicate with, and who seem to know what they're doing, and then you establish a working relationship with them. The whole social media shotgun approach seems inefficient somehow. The writer has to spend so much time and effort critiquing the critiques, so to speak.
 

CMBright

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I can't help but think that soliciting critiques should be more like a dating service: You shop around until you find one or two people that you can communicate with, and who seem to know what they're doing, and then you establish a working relationship with them. The whole social media shotgun approach seems inefficient somehow. The writer has to spend so much time and effort critiquing the critiques, so to speak.
Same problem as friends critiquing. They know your work and might not be honest, might miss things, might be biased in favor of your work, etc.
 
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