Using "crap" and "damn" in an MG novel?

Wouldn't recommend "crap". Depending on the usage, he could say "He doesn't know jack", or "Dang it" instead.

As for "damned", again, you can replace it with "dang it". But if it's used like "that damned thing", I think it's okay.

For "hell", just use "heck". It's not that bad.

Remember, think context. What is the character trying to say? Is he angry, insulted, excited? It'll give you a better clue.

Also, 14 years old sounds a bit old for MG readers, regardless of who it's aimed at. 13 might be more acceptable. Is there any reason your MC can't be younger or your target audience (voice, plot, etc) can't be older? You can get away with those words in YA.


P.S. I just revised a scene on my MG fantasy where the character is trying to repeat something someone told him, but he vaguely remembers so he says: "Lost my marbles. Can't talk. Have a plan. Balls."

I expect the "balls" part might be misinterpreted (the character he's telling this to is taken aback, lol", but then he corrects himself and all is well.

Don't plan to change it.

They don't let me use "crap" in my MG series. (And I have tried!) But they're super-squeaky clean, even by MG standards. I've seen others that get away with "crap" and "damn."

Depends on the series, depends on the editor, depends on a lot of factors. Write how you want it.

MG is usually 8-12, so far as I know, so with a 14-year-old protagonist, I expect you're sliding into YA. Not that people don't do it---"Fablehaven" comes to mind---but again, it's gonna depend on the publisher.

"Dang it" isn't something kids today say. Maybe kids in the 50s, but not in the 21st century. As for "crap," I don't think there's anything wrong with that--Peter Boyle says it in every episode on Everybody Loves Raymond!

yendor1152 said:

"Dang it" isn't something kids today say. Maybe kids in the 50s, but not in the 21st century. As for "crap," I don't think there's anything wrong with that--Peter Boyle says it in every episode on Everybody Loves Raymond!

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I beg to differ. Depending on ethnicity and geographic location, "dang it" is still frequently used.

Also, "crap" is frowned upon in MG. Everybody Loves Raymond is not only a different market, but a different medium entirely.

I wouldn't let my girls buy a book with those words in it. Most parents I know wouldn't, either.

I'd try to avoid them if at all possible. In my MG fantasy, I don't use any words that could be considered questionable. As it transitions to YA, I might throw in some of the minor ones like those you mentioned. After all, I think Harry Potter had a few uses of damn.

On a related note, what if you're actually referring to Hell?

rwm4768 said:

On a related note, what if you're actually referring to Hell?

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If you're actually referring to Hell, I don't think the word would be a problem. Same with "damn" if you're actually talking about a soul being damned. But then you have the issue of sensitive subjects instead of the issue of language. There was a thread on religious themes in middle grade a little while ago. It's been done, but I think it tends to be upper middle grade.

Hm, an interesting question. In the MG contemporary I am revising at the moment, I have someone say "what the hell..." but he is depicted as an immoral character. I wonder if that is okay? Maybe it will be safer just to take it out!

thelittleprince said:

Hm, an interesting question. In the MG contemporary I am revising at the moment, I have someone say "what the hell..." but he is depicted as an immoral character. I wonder if that is okay? Maybe it will be safer just to take it out!

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The truth of it is... it doesn't matter. The ms has to pass through several hands before it gets published, and odds are, the agent will be the first to tell you whether it'll fly or not. And if it doesn't he/she will ask you to change the word. They won't automatically reject you for a single instance of hell or damn.

I had this concern once, then I realized, does it matter? That's why editing exists.

DanielaTorre said:

The truth of it is... it doesn't matter. The ms has to pass through several hands before it gets published, and odds are, the agent will be the first to tell you whether it'll fly or not. And if it doesn't he/she will ask you to change the word. They won't automatically reject you for a single instance of hell or damn.

I had this concern once, then I realized, does it matter? That's why editing exists.

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Quoted for truth.

You'll never make everyone happy--I occasionally get angry e-mails from parents because I use "oh my god"--but if you're over the line of what they're comfortable with, your editor or agent will tell you.

rwm4768 said:

I'd try to avoid them if at all possible. In my MG fantasy, I don't use any words that could be considered questionable. As it transitions to YA, I might throw in some of the minor ones like those you mentioned. After all, I think Harry Potter had a few uses of damn.

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Yes, but Harry Potter was even using swears when the main kids were around 11-13. So it would really depend on a number of factors.

Personally, I'd say take it out. Better to play it safe and it's still certainly believable that someone would use the words others have suggested like "jack" instead of "crap".

It sounds like you have an exciting book, all of the swearing. I read something somewhere that a screenplay is allowed two swear words before they risk the PG-13 and above ratings (smaller audience and less potential earnings). So, the swear words are placed with laser precision for effect. See the Princess Bride.

It's interesting because here in the UK 'damn' isn't really seen as a swear word which is probably why JK used it. I personally like it when nearly swears are used ie in the cartoon Adventure Time, Fin says 'What the math?!'. Great use of imagination to get round an issue.

This is helpful, thanks. I have a grumpy Grandpa in my story who keeps wanting to say "Hell." I think I'll leave it in for now but it may come out on revision.

I use 'crap' in my MG fantasy and no one's told me I should change it yet. Instead of hell, I used 'heck' though, and I think I still got the sentiment across. Question: what about phrases like "we're screwed"?

My MC says Hell once. His mother calls him on it. In this scene, it's very real. A weaker term wouldn't work. Be true to your characters and story. Let the gatekeepers change it if you must. In my case, I'd fight for the word with them, but it is only used once.

Chatting with an agent the other week, I did ask this question. And she said so long as there was a good reason for it and it wasn't a common occurrence, she wouldn't have a problem with the odd swear word.

What about suck? When I was a kid, that was a 'bad' word. Now it isn't. Though I struggle not to cringe. I wouldn't put it in my book, but are some of these words like pissed off, pimped, sucks, friggin' etc... Are these okay? What about freakin'?

They used buzz kill on the Disney channel the other day.

I noticed this question in the Ask the Agent thread.

*searches*

Okay, here's the post:

http://www.absolutewrite.com/forums/showpost.php?p=8378507&postcount=15

i use a lot of crap in my writing.

caw

What's funny is that fourth and fifth graders have no problem reading about characters dying, but they seem in awe when they read or hear these words.

Also, the agent's post above sort of mentioned it, but there's nothing wrong with a 14-year-old protagonist for middle grade fiction. I tutor and both of my brothers teach/taught fourth grade and they always mentioned that kids really like to read about characters older than themselves. It makes sense; most children want to be older, not younger.