Is it my writing or the concept that is getting rejected?

Donna Pudick said:

Don't get discouraged, but also don't forget what your book is about. That's the biggest mistake that authors make. Just tell us what the book is about, not how it compares to other titles, not all about you (except maybe at the end in a short para), or why you wrote the book. Plot only queries should get you some better results. I like queries that start with a question, i.e., Can spies be laid off? or end with a question, i.e., Will Laura ever recover and realize her dream to become world champion?

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fwiw, in quite a few agent blogs the agents have mentioned these and they don't care for rhetoricals, generally seeming to consider them gimmicky, overdone, and trite.

Donna Pudick said:

If you don't get an answer from one editor at an imprint, wait a while, then query another editor at the same imprint.

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query letters are sent to agents, not publishing houses, many of which are pretty specific on even looking at unsolicited manuscripts.

mayqueen said:

It could also be many, many other things: the agent's list is full, the market is too tough for that type of story, your writing is good and the concept is good but it's not what the agent wants right now, it's Monday, etc etc etc. Make sure your pages and your query are the best they can possibly be and then query every single agent who might possibly be a good fit.

You've got a 10% rate right now. That's not too shabby. Make sure your pages and query are solid, and then reevaluate when you get to 50 queries. That would be my advice.

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AngelaD said:

Thank you for the advice. I wish it was easier to decipher what wasn't working but in the end, I just think that maybe this agent wasn't for me and the right one is out there.

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I totally agree. The whole thing often seems a little bit like winning the lottery... Except this finding-the-right-agent/publisher thing actually involves a ton of work--not to say anything about the other ton of work you've already put into your book!

(Also, not winning the lottery generally doesn't feel half as soul-sucking as opening your inbox in the morning to find a new batch of form rejections waiting for you...)

...or is it my writing style?

I hope the mods don't mind me adding this question in here since it's along the same lines as the thread itself.

I have submitted many a-query... probably 50 at this point and have not received any requests =[ sad day indeed.

Along with the query itself, most agencies ask for a synopsis and sample pages. So let's say it's not my query (which I'm betting that's probably my true problem), and then let's say the plot is solid (cause I know mine's concrete), would agents look at writing style and dismiss books because of writing-style/newb-ish-ness?

The m.s. itself has been proofread, edited, cut down to size, had an LBL, so I've done extensive personal editing.

However, would agents simply put it in the OUT pile for things like passive voice, tense, or TELL vs. SHOW errors or look past and see the potential of the novel?

dchisholm125 said:

I hope the mods don't mind me adding this question in here since it's along the same lines as the thread itself.

I have submitted many a-query... probably 50 at this point and have not received any requests =[ sad day indeed. Note most folks consider about 10% to be a fair request rate.....so even at 50, you wouldn't expect much. I'm just pointing out the smallness of your sample size, because as you ponder these things it will remain something to consider.

Along with the query itself, most agencies ask for a synopsis and sample pages. So let's say it's not my query (which I'm betting that's probably my true problem), it (the query) is at least one of them. Someone posted in your QLH thread that it reads as a synopsis....I agree. I stayed out because a) I agree with what was posted and b) you said "be gentle"...there's nothing wrong with that, but I know the style that suits me and try to consider the needs of others when they state them--you wanted "nice" so I avoided yours until I know how thick that skin truly is, BUT you do need to go back and do the 3 questions exercise instead of trying to summarize your story.

and then let's say the plot is solid (cause I know mine's concrete), would agents look at writing style and dismiss books because of writing-style/newb-ish-ness? writing style can mean lots of things....they won't dismiss it because you write tightly, or use a lot of metaphors, or whatever--they will reject because you use painful metaphors, a distracting amount, you write so tightly the story is sterile, etc.....the only "newbie style" that will get you rejected is "not good enough," which isn't really a style at all. But yes, if you are making newbie mistakes that bring the work down below the bar an agent is seeking, those mistakes will certainly cost you. Nothing wrong with being new, but you still have to write well enough for the agent to take you--they take new folks every single day.

The m.s. itself has been proofread, edited, cut down to size, had an LBL, so I've done extensive personal editing. good, and a good start. Have you had a couple betas look? Subbed a chapter or two in SYW? There's only so much you can do on your own, especially when you're new....and getting fresh eyes on a project can be a soul-crushing or illuminating experience, depending upon your mindset. My early stuff got SAVAGED. Deservedly so. I decided to learn from that, instead of being bummed folks "didn't get my writing." I'm far better for it. But some DO take their ball and leave.....which is unfortunate.

However, would agents simply put it in the OUT pile for things like passive voice, tense, or TELL vs. SHOW errors or look past and see the potential of the novel?

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you end on a false dichotomy. a story is the net sum of lots of things, including the plot itself, but als the writing. If you're fucking up things that impair your ability to tell the story, and it is on a scale beyond what they feel they have the time and ability to help you with, there IS no "potential." My son is nine; he can make up a plausible story about vampires or exploding buildings or whatever else--he just can't write one. A single show vs tell error won't sink you, remember this is an equation.....Dan Brown's pacing outweighs his.....well, wordcraft. And he sells. But it wasn't because an agent said "holy shit?! Really? You brought me a book about Christ marrying?!?! Where do I sign!?!" Whatever you mean by "potential," writing matters....and you may overcome defecits in one area through strengths in others, but no, nobody gets a "free pass" on anything--those things you do poorly increase the activation energy required to sell that book.

dchisholm125 said:

However, would agents simply put it in the OUT pile for things like passive voice, tense, or TELL vs. SHOW errors or look past and see the potential of the novel?

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Yes.

Only substitute 'circular filing cabinet' for out pile.

Agents see hundreds of novels in a week. Many of them have 'potential', but why would an agent waste time on something that has unrealized potential when they can simply keep looking and pick something that has realized potential? The 'potential' would have to be truly phenomenal, and that normally includes some sort of celebrity factor on the author's part.

The agent's job is not to teach you how to write.

I've been following your SYW progress casually and I just looked at your query, and I have to say that you, as a writer, are not there yet. It takes most people at least a few tries to get a saleable novel, so don't sweat it, just don't expect the moon on your first try. If it was that easy everyone would do it.

Drachen Jager said:

Yes.

Agents see hundreds of novels in a week. Many of them have 'potential', but why would an agent waste time on something that has unrealized potential when they can simply keep looking and pick something that has realized potential?

The agent's job is not to teach you how to write.

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I find it sad Drachen used so few words to say what I said, and did so so much better

dchisholm125 said:

However, would agents simply put it in the OUT pile for things like passive voice, tense, or TELL vs. SHOW errors or look past and see the potential of the novel?

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That's not how it works.

When you read, you don't use a checklist.

When you read, you know when you feel tripped up, thrown off, just kind of "meh," or like something is not how it should be. You know when you don't care about the characters or the plot doesn't make sense or the writing leaves you cold.

It's only then that you put a name to *why* you are underwhelmed by the book. I can say "headhopping, lots of filtering, withholding too much information, and one POV seems entirely unnecessary; there are several redundant sentences; x character does not seem to have any flaws" but those are all just the analzey words that explain "this story is not coming across well and leaves me feeling blah/bored/irritated because I thought the idea was cool but the execution was a mess."

There is no checklist; there is only How Good the Book Is. Things like the things you mentioned, if they occur over and over again, can mess up the overall story. It's up to the agent how much work they're willing to put in to bring the manuscript up to their own standard. I've heard tell of agents who are willing to do *a lot,* and some who just want a done project, some in between--but--you're much better off submitting the best you've got.

I'll keep this brief since it is about the question, not myself.

@ quicklime - yes, yes, Drachen undermined you with succinct words, however you embellished and gave me real-world examples which helped a lot =]

@ Drachen Jager - I agree I need work and I know it. I do ask a lot of AW in the SYW forums, but I use the crits as guidelines for conducting my future writing. I know I'm not ready for a query, but working towards one will help while my brother Beta reads for me.

@ buzhidao - I think I understood your reply the best, simply because I'm mathematical and you've given me a formula...
all-those-things-writer's-should-avoid
+
good plot
=
story-that-doesn't-come-across-well-enough


Thanks everyone, I love this AW place =]