How Subversive Is Too Subversive?

DavidBrett · Nov 19, 2012

Ah... So you mean my webcomic superhero, who tried to thwart an armoured car robbery, only to blow it up and grievously injure most involved was subversive?

I love when things like that happen...

Kitty Pryde · Nov 19, 2012

ArachnePhobia said:
Subversive, in this context, means anti-didactic. Say your average kids' story creates a false dynamic where "good" kids always escape danger but "bad" kids are imperiled, humiliated, and finally forced to beg forgiveness. In a subversive story, the good kid gets hit by a bus while picking up litter and has to spend summer vacation in the hospital. Meanwhile, the bad kid cheats in a contest, wins a free trip to Disneyland, and doesn't get caught.

Well, that's kind of an extreme example. But that's the idea.

not quite what I had in mind. i didn't mean glorifying antisocial behavior, more like challenging the status quo, justified defiance of authority, subverting traditional childhood roles, talking about unpleasant truths or things adults don't like to admit to. and particularly from a social justice perspective, not just an amoral tale.

Evaine · Nov 19, 2012

That's why Free Man on Sunday is such a good subversive book. The main character is proud of her dad, who is in prison because he challenged the status quo - being one of the ramblers who wanted the right to walk across land owned by extremely rich people who wanted to keep the peasants out.

MsJudy · Nov 19, 2012

Kitty Pryde said:
not quite what I had in mind. i didn't mean glorifying antisocial behavior, more like challenging the status quo, justified defiance of authority, subverting traditional childhood roles, talking about unpleasant truths or things adults don't like to admit to. and particularly from a social justice perspective, not just an amoral tale.

Yes, that's more the definition I think people have in mind when they talk about kidlit being subversive.

Adults want kids to be polite and obedient and quiet and clean. But what kind of interesting story can you write with that?

Most any story needs kids who do what they aren't supposed to do, for very good reasons, and who succeed in not only defying the status quo, but actually reshaping the situation so there's a new status quo with a stronger moral authority.

Kitty Pryde · Nov 19, 2012

Over in another thread someone was talking about this short story, The Storyteller, by Saki http://www.classicshorts.com/stories/Storyteller.html it's extremely relevant to the discussion. It's over a century old but the point remains. Only 2k words, go on!

ArachnePhobia · Nov 20, 2012

The Storyteller is one of my favorite stories of all time. <3

Morrell · Dec 11, 2012

I just may have found an answer to the question "How subversive is too subversive?" Check it out-- A Rule is to Break: A Child's Guide to Anarchy.

Publisher's Weekly article

Kitty Pryde · Dec 11, 2012

Heh! I've actually seen that in the indie bookstore by my apartment. And yeah, I wouldn't buy that one for my hypothetical future children--the title implies more work for me doing behavior management on their newfound anarchic spirits

thanks for mentioning it.

How Subversive Is Too Subversive?

DavidBrett

Alas, poor Yorick, he fed me 'nanas

Kitty Pryde

i luv you giant bear statue

Evaine

MsJudy

Kitty Pryde

i luv you giant bear statue

ArachnePhobia

Morrell

Kitty Pryde

i luv you giant bear statue