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guys pov?

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Melanie Dawn

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I get that, but none of that indicates that flipping a girl-switch in your brain turns you "emotional and whimsical," which is what had me raising my eyebrows.

As I said, a "switch was not flipped", once i began transition (and got comfortable in my skin after 35 years) I let out the girl that was always there... sorry if that doesn't explain it right, but being trans isn't black and white.... it's not always easy to explain things to non trans folks. but i try
 

Amadan

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As I said, a "switch was not flipped", once i began transition (and got comfortable in my skin after 35 years) I let out the girl that was always there... sorry if that doesn't explain it right, but being trans isn't black and white.... it's not always easy to explain things to non trans folks. but i try

I'm not questioning your identity, I'm questioning the assertion that "girl" behavior is intrinsic and rooted in biology.
 

kkbe

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Edit: Pardon the interruption. . .

Most of my mc's have been male. In each case, I found it relatively easy because I knew the character. The person. Of course, it doesn't hurt to have a man around to ask, Hey, what would a guy say in this case? Or male betas to tell me when I got something ass-backwards. Generally speaking, though, my characters come across as authentic. People first, with all their individual quirks; then, when appropriate, I sprinkle a little testosterone dust around. Dependent on the mc, might be a smidge, might be a fistful.

Btw, two are psychopaths; one is a college professor who may or may not be gay; one is a young male homosexual prostitute; one is a thirty-something man (husband/father); one is a young, handsome nineteen-year-old (masculine, quite the smart-ass. . .)

Your typical male demographic.

:D

Edit: Begging pardon. Please continue. . .
 
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Melanie Dawn

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I'm not questioning your identity, I'm questioning the assertion that "girl" behavior is intrinsic and rooted in biology.

I don't think that's what i was saying at all. Let me put it this way; everyone is different. Some people are "born" more effeminate, and some not so much. yes, males can and are born like this as well. My MIND, not my cells are girly. I suck at explaining this stuff. My girly side was always there, just late to emerge.

I never mentioned biology.
 
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Vaulted

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Differences between the sexes:

1. Average body size, fat level, reproductive organs
2. Testosterone level (high levels influencing competitiveness and, paradoxically, flattening of affect)
3. Culturally defined roles.

The brain turns out not to be a big deal. It's just like one operating system on two different brands of hardware. (perhaps one system is more prone to crashing ;) )

Personal experience:
It took me ages to realise that when men meet there is usually an aggression, whether underlying or overt. This is why men cultivate tough exteriors, in order to discourage attacks, resulting in male/male relationships usually being at arm's length.
There's also a desire to demonstrate competence as a kind of sexual display; this one I've not yet got the hang of.
 

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Differences between the sexes:

1. Average body size, fat level, reproductive organs
2. Testosterone level (high levels influencing competitiveness and, paradoxically, flattening of affect)
3. Culturally defined roles.

The brain turns out not to be a big deal. It's just like one operating system on two different brands of hardware. (perhaps one system is more prone to crashing ;) )

Personal experience:
It took me ages to realise that when men meet there is usually an aggression, whether underlying or overt. This is why men cultivate tough exteriors, in order to discourage attacks, resulting in male/male relationships usually being at arm's length.
There's also a desire to demonstrate competence as a kind of sexual display; this one I've not yet got the hang of.

Well, I'm female and my relationships (aside from my husband and my family members and a few very close friends) tend to be somewhat arm's length. My husband's the same way. Not sure why, as neither of us is terribly competitive or aggressive in our approach to our friendships and neither of us tends to cultivate a tough facade. It's more like we both respond to conflict and aggression on the parts of others by withdrawing--unless we have a lot invested in the relationship.

I do think it's safe to say that males tend to be more overtly competitive in certain ways, though culture, age and socioeconomic status have an effect here. I remember reading some books by a researcher called Deborah Tannin years ago. She studied the way things like gender and culture and even the region of the country someone lives in (within the US--like being from NYC versus the midwest) affect communication patterns. Kind of a highbrow venus and mars thing without all the pseudo science thrown in.

But women, even very "traditionally feminine" women, certainly have their own ways of establishing status and competing with one another. And it's not always just through gossip or snide comments. Research on other social animals (such as chimpanzees) suggests that social status in females is quite important to fitness in nature.

And, the emphasis on sports for girls over the past 30 years has made many women more comfortable with overt competition in at least some situations. I certainly see plenty of examples of women boasting to and teasing one another (and males too) in that sort of "edgy" way you sometimes see males doing in professional and sports-related contexts.

I've also noticed the "tough exterior never crack a smile" male thing is really much more noticeable in some cultures than others, even within the US. That certainly suggests it's at least partially a learned behavior.
 

Vaulted

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Well, I'm female and my relationships (aside from my husband and my family members and a few very close friends) tend to be somewhat arm's length. My husband's the same way. Not sure why, as neither of us is terribly competitive or aggressive in our approach to our friendships and neither of us tends to cultivate a tough facade. It's more like we both respond to conflict and aggression on the parts of others by withdrawing--unless we have a lot invested in the relationship.

I have that too - it's called repression. :)

(I wish we had a wider range of emoticons - looking for 'boggle-eyed smile' or 'shocked'.)
 

TheWordsmith

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You know, any advice anyone gives you must come with a warning label. I can tell you that she-males are more emotion driven and he-males are more instinct driven. She likes to talk about problems; he likes to just address the situation and pick up the pieces later. She is more surface emotional; he keeps emotions more introspective. She cries ovr everything - he never cries. She avoids confrontation - he embraces it.

And all of that is true ... And all of that is false.

There are some basic character qualities into which MOST of one gender or the other tend to fall. HOWEVER, as with everything, there are exceptions and, with gender behavior and thought processes, the exceptions are substantial.
It's good to keep in mind that, for the most part, gender differences are tied to ages old rearing attitudes. "Men are the breadwinners. They go out and slaughter the beast to provide for the woman. *grunt*" / "Women are the homemakers. They have the babies, care for the hearth and cook the beast the men drag home. (including skinning and butchering the gutted beast, tanning the hides, and turning them into protective clothing.) Different cultures have grown away from that 'norm' at different paces. In Russia, for instance, men tend to be far freer in displays of emotion and have no shame in crying over something like a romantic song. Women are accorded great deference as child-bearers but are also respected for their brains and abilities. In the Arab world, men tend to cling more strenuously to the "man as the ruler of the world - women are subservient" attitude. And, as recent world affairs has sadly shown, many Arab world men are threatened by a woman strong enough to want to stand on her own and claim her rightful place in the world, even if that woman is a 14 year old girls. Indira Ghandi and her female successors in the political arena nothwithstanding.

In the United States, things are somewhere in between. For the most part, men seem to still suffer from a Tim Allen - "All Men Are Pigs" kind of mentality but women have more voice in society, business, and government than possibly any other nation on earth with the possible exception of Great Britain which long ago conceded that women were as inept at running a government as any man and elected Margaret Thatcher as Prime Minister. (True to form, she did no worse than any recent male predecessor and better than some.)

As you can see, there are a lot of things that come into play when building a character of the opposite sex. But, it is really no different regardless the gender of a character. There is a lot to consider when building any character.

And, of course, to everything I have said, there is an exception. So, if you are relatively new to the "cross-gender" character creation you might want to stick to a more mainstream, middle ground approach at the start and, after you have built your characters' main personalities, flesh them out with more character-centric behaviors.
 
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Johncs

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Thought experiment: Would the answer to the OP be any different if the genders were reversed?

:sarcasm

How I write a guy's PoV.

I think of a man woman, and I take away add reason and accountability.

:chair

If a character's gender defines them as a person -- they must be incredibly boring. Write complete individuals and no one will notice what planet they're from (at least in my opinion).
 

Amadan

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Thought experiment: Would the answer to the OP be any different if the genders were reversed?

:sarcasm

How I write a guy's PoV.

I think of a man woman, and I take away add reason and accountability.

:chair


Oh, Jack Nicholson - so perfect for delivering that line.
 

Roxxsmom

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In the United States, things are somewhere in between. For the most part, men seem to still suffer from a Tim Allen - "All Men Are Pigs" kind of mentality but women have more voice in society, business, and government than possibly any other nation on earth with the possible exception of Great Britain.

One interesting difference, at least in modern post-industrial societies is that most men still seem to be proud, or at least accepting, of the stereotypes associated with them (negative ones as well as positive), while women tend to be more offended by stereotypes. Even my friends who have chosen traditional female roles and professions tend to bristle when told that their natural inclinations as women make it so they couldn't do anything else.

Males, though, seem to be very comfortable with the negative stereotypes about masculinity (the the point where some may not even feel they're negatives at all). For instance, if someone says "well, men are just less inclined to be faithful/monogamous than women," or "men are just more narcissistic, immature and insensitive," a lot of guys will agree. It's the Peter Griffon syndrome. That cartoon character is sort of a caricature of all the "men are selfish, immature pigs" stereotypes, but none of the guys I know are offended by it. But a lot of women these days would be put off by a character that was the stereotype of all the negative female traits (overly emotional, vain, high maintenance, bad at math, dependent, weak etc).

That's an interesting difference, though I doubt it's biological.
 

Vaulted

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One interesting difference, at least in modern post-industrial societies is that most men still seem to be proud, or at least accepting, of the stereotypes associated with them (negative ones as well as positive), while women tend to be more offended by stereotypes. Even my friends who have chosen traditional female roles and professions tend to bristle when told that their natural inclinations as women make it so they couldn't do anything else.

In my experience, most many women derive ego gratification from being accepting and kind to "unfortunates". That doesn't seem to have changed.


bad choice of words.... google it.

ok carry on

No, don't google it - NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOoooooooooooooooo.....
 

Roxxsmom

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In my experience, most many women derive ego gratification from being accepting and kind to "unfortunates". That doesn't seem to have changed.




No, don't google it - NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOoooooooooooooooo.....

Maybe I should have said many men too, since I haven't actually counted them all up ;) To be fair, the kind to unfortunates thing could be said to be a positive stereotype. The feminine equivalent of the positive male stereotype of being strong and protective.
 

Vaulted

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To be fair, the kind to unfortunates thing could be said to be a positive stereotype.

Certainly, and I have always relied upon the kindness of (female) strangers. But it is sometimes patronising, e.g. women who try to befriend gay men in order to show how broadminded and accepting they are, or who talk to people in wheelchairs as though they have the minds of children.

Okay, call me a cynic ;)
 

Mara

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bad choice of words.... google it.

ok carry on

Eh, don't google it. :)

The word is a slur for trans women and often used in porn. Although it's pretty clear the person who wrote it in this thread didn't know that and wasn't using it that way, and the dash in that version isn't the normal version. But yeah, that made me cringe until I realized what it was.
 

Roxxsmom

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Certainly, and I have always relied upon the kindness of (female) strangers. But it is sometimes patronising, e.g. women who try to befriend gay men in order to show how broadminded and accepting they are, or who talk to people in wheelchairs as though they have the minds of children.

Okay, call me a cynic ;)

True--and positive stereotypes can also backfire. For instance, a woman who has a level of "helpfulness" or "kindness" normally associated with males would be penalized more than a male for not being helpful in a given situation.

I'm minded of a friend of mine who is an elementary school teacher. She is a highly organized person who is good at multitasking, as are most of her colleagues (stereotypically "good" female traits). However, the one male teacher at her school is not so well organized or good at multitasking, though he is good teacher in other ways. The other teachers find his occasional forgetfulness annoying (he committed the unpardonable sin of leaving the lights on during a fire drill one time, and he occasionally forgets to lock doors or put things away), but they forgive him his occasional lapses because "he is male and that's just how males are."

Now if I were one of their colleagues and forgot things occasionally (which I would certainly do, as I am absent minded and also a lousy multitasker, in spite of being female), they'd likely cut me a lot less slack.

Fortunately, I teach at the college level where most of my colleagues, female and male alike, are at absent minded, and no one cares if you leave the lights on when the fire alarm goes off, and signs and general memos reminding people lock doors and to put things away when they're done with them are par for the course ;)

In writing, it's those little quirks where your character differs from what is expected of him or her, that can be endearing or memorable. I'm minded of my former marine cousin who gets woozy at the sight of blood, for instance.
 
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