cars are usually responsible for truck/car fatalities

stonefly · Oct 20, 2012

Statistics say that the roads are getting safer, but to those involved in the wrecks, it's little comfort.

Seventy five percent of the time, an improper move from a car is the cause in a truck/car collision.

icerose · Oct 20, 2012

Cite? Purpose? Feelings? Solutions?

Vince524 · Oct 20, 2012

icerose said:
Cite? Purpose? Feelings? Solutions?

He's right. The roads are safer than ever before.

It's the people and vehicles on the road that are going to do you in.

Oh, if you need a link, here's one that fully explains the link between car and truck accidents. And how it's usually the cars fault. In fact, it's a very important link that everyone in the US should see.

thothguard51 · Oct 20, 2012

Remember when it was all the rage to point at SUVs and Trucks for roll over accidents.

Well I owned a Dodge Ram 1500 pick up and a Jeep Grand Wagoner. Driving up 66 on the way to work, or home, never once did I see a truck or SUV flipped. But I did see lots of smaller cars flipped over.

When I got my Jeep my then GF who is an insurance agent warned me about the higher price of my car insurance. I told her I bought it for safety reason. Meaning, I would survive a wreck. As far as the insurance companies are concerned, she said they would rather pay out my death benefit than long term health care for somebody I slammed into. She says that is what we are really paying for.

So what did she drive, a SUV. Why? She too wanted to survive.

And I have to agree that car drivers are more often than not the cause of accidents between cars and trucks or large SUVs. I can't tell you the number of times I have been cut off by smaller cars whose drivers think they can just change lanes and zip in and out of traffic because of their smaller size.

Don · Oct 20, 2012

It's not really very surprising that low-mileage amateurs cause more accidents than high-mileage professionals who rely on their skills every day to avoid said amateurs.

stonefly · Oct 20, 2012

icerose said:
Cite? Purpose? Feelings? Solutions?

A lot of studies have been done, and most come up with the 75% figure. I can't say I like the slant CHP puts on this one. Most of us don't want to be the bullies of the highway, and aren't.

Just trying to raise awareness. Who knows? It might save somebody's life, maybe mine.

I love trucking. I feel like the entire USA is my neighborhood. I wrench my own rig, both tractor and trailer. I find my own loads and do all my own paperwork. It's a way of life. It gets in your blood. I'm good at it - a million accident free miles - never caused anybody any injury, including myself. But, I'm wanting to get out of it because of the ever increasing regulatory squeeze of the US government.

Solutions? Again, all I can say is raising awareness. Presently, most of us independents, the ones who have been in it a while, have a serious and well founded gripe with present Hours Of Service regulations. I belong to a trucking forum. A wife of a trucker is a regular member on the forum and she has a website. She, myself, and another trucker did a lot of work skimming through comments to the feds on Hours Of Service and picked out the ones having to do with the split sleeper berth provision which was a realistic and valuable part of the regulations until the FMCSA (Federal Motor Carrier Safety Administration) chopped it from the rules. I'm thinking it's okay to post the link here. It's not a writing forum, just a web page with trucker comments to the feds. It's Gin's website, but I did the opening statements on the HOS, and the comments from the truckers follow. It's only the tip of the iceberg. We didn't get all of the truckers who commented on the website and only a small percentage of truckers commented, although they must be aggrieved as were the participants. BringBackTrucking

blacbird · Oct 20, 2012

Cars are very seldom responsible for accidents. Car drivers, on the other hand . . .

Commercial truck drivers are required to have a chauffeur's license, generally, and maybe other certification that requires a much higher degree of training and testing than a simple ol' driver's license, which almost any fool can get, and many fools do. This is an absolutely unsurprising statistic.

caw

Shadow_Ferret · Oct 20, 2012

Oh. Semis. Why didn't you say so? When I think trucks, I think of those gas guzzler pickups, not semi trailers. So I wasn't sure if you were trying to start a fight or what between automobile drivers and pickup drivers.

thothguard51 said:
Remember when it was all the rage to point at SUVs and Trucks for roll over accidents.

Well I owned a Dodge Ram 1500 pick up and a Jeep Grand Wagoner. Driving up 66 on the way to work, or home, never once did I see a truck or SUV flipped. But I did see lots of smaller cars flipped over.

The smaller cars flipped because some oblivious driver in an SUV ran them off the road.

My experience is that people in 4x4s think they can drive with impudence when the weather is bad in winter, but the truth is, they might be able to drive through the snow, but they can't stop any faster than I can.

RobJ · Oct 21, 2012

stonefly said:
Seventy five percent of the time, an improper move from a car is the cause in a truck/car collision.

stonefly said:
A lot of studies have been done, and most come up with the 75% figure. I can't say I like the slant CHP puts on this one.

You still haven't posted a link to a study that supports your claim. Anyone can make a claim. It's traditional in P&CE for people to provide sources. If, as you suggest, there are lots of studies, it should be easy to do.

I found a reference here:

http://abcnews.go.com/WNT/story?id=130212&page=1#.UIOftFFCj0s

and here:

http://askthetrucker.com/sleep-apnea-testing-could-be-next-big-wave-to-hit-truck-drivers/

to a AAA study from 2002. You can download the report from the study (Identifying Unsafe Actions that Lead to Fatal Car-Truck Crashes) from the AAA site:

http://www.aaafoundation.org/resources/index.cfm?button=research

The study is based on data from 1995-1998, and the report identifies limitations of the study, including that it doesn't address non-fatal crashes.

stonefly · Oct 21, 2012

RobJ said:
You still haven't posted a link to a study that supports your claim. Anyone can make a claim. It's traditional in P&CE for people to provide sources. If, as you suggest, there are lots of studies, it should be easy to do.

I found a reference here:

http://abcnews.go.com/WNT/story?id=130212&page=1#.UIOftFFCj0s

and here:

http://askthetrucker.com/sleep-apnea-testing-could-be-next-big-wave-to-hit-truck-drivers/

to a AAA study from 2002. You can download the report from the study (Identifying Unsafe Actions that Lead to Fatal Car-Truck Crashes) from the AAA site:

http://www.aaafoundation.org/resources/index.cfm?button=research

The study is based on data from 1995-1998, and the report identifies limitations of the study, including that it doesn't address non-fatal crashes.

Thanks for the links.

I'm guilty of losing track of the things I've read. I've been following this as long as I've been driving otr (over the road), which is for about 15 years. I've read about and seen many studies, but until fairly recently it didn't occur to me to download them and carefully file them. I have downloaded some of them, but I can't find them. I know they're somewhere on my computer. I know, it sounds like the dog ate my homework. Actually, rats did eat a pile of bills I had in my desk drawer some ~~years~~ decades back. This will be a good incentive for me to download and carefully file everything I find on the subject. Gin, the lady who started the BringBackTrucking website, can probably help find some of the studies we have talked about over the years.

I am pleased to see there is some interest here in the subject. Trucking is increasingly being seen as a cash cow. It's not difficult to understand how large trucking companies could be seen that way, but for small independents like myself, it's more like trying to get blood from a stone.

Thank you for reading, replying, and linking. It's now on my agenda to track down the studies I've been reading over the years. While it may be easy to find some things, I don't thinks it's going to be easy to find some of the specific studies I remember reading but don't remember where.

Romantic Heretic · Oct 21, 2012

As long as driving is regarded as a right that cannot be denied to a person this will continue to happen. Since the only requirements to obtain a driver's licence are a pulse and reasonably good eyesight that's not going to change in the future.

I don't drive by the way. I do have a pulse and reasonably good eyesight but my reflexes are poor, my situational awareness sucks and I'm rather agoraphobic. There's nothing like a crowded roadway full of people working out their emotional problems with their vehicles to cause that agoraphobia to kick in.

Vince524 · Oct 21, 2012

RobJ said:
You still haven't posted a link to a study that supports your claim.

What about my link above that tells the harrowing tale of:

In Detroit, a Pontiac, Michigan youth was reported
dead at the scene of a head-on collision on Grand Avenue this morning. The
youth was reportedly driving on the wrong side of the boulevard when he
struck a delivery truck and was catapulted through the windshield of his
car. The driver of the truck is reported to be uninjured. The identities
of both men are being withheld by local police.

Doesn't that count?

RobJ · Oct 21, 2012

Vince524 said:
What about my link above that tells the harrowing tale of:

Doesn't that count?

No, to be honest, I followed the link and assumed you were being stupid. I'm going to put you on ignore now.

MacAllister · Oct 21, 2012

RobJ said:
No, to be honest, I followed the link and assumed you were being stupid. I'm going to put you on ignore now.

You've been back less than a week ... and this post really seemed like a good way to go?

Mara · Oct 21, 2012

My father's a retired truck driver, and he _still_ complains about truck drivers getting villified for the accidents that car drivers cause. In particular, people who don't know how to maintain a constant speed, and people who pull out in front of semis that are going downhill.

Don · Oct 21, 2012

Mara said:
My father's a retired truck driver, and he _still_ complains about truck drivers getting villified for the accidents that car drivers cause. In particular, people who don't know how to maintain a constant speed, and people who pull out in front of semis that are going downhill.

I always had a textbook appreciation of what truck drivers face, but after five years hauling a fifth-wheel around the country, it's hard to believe there aren't more accidents than there are. People act like any rig can stop or maneuver like a sports car. We started keeping an informal tally, and it seemed about once every 1000 miles, somebody would do something exceedingly stupid in front of us necessitating a quick reaction, and about every 5000 miles somebody would make a serious attempt to kill us or get killed.

It kept me on my toes, at least.

...but that's not even the whole story, to be fair to truckers. My rig is capable of sports-car performance, at least compared to the big rigs they haul around. Their problems are considerably tougher than what I face.

mayqueen · Oct 21, 2012

Romantic Heretic said:
There's nothing like a crowded roadway full of people working out their emotional problems with their vehicles to cause that agoraphobia to kick in.

This is an eloquent way to describe Chicago (or, I imagine, any city) rush-hour traffic.

RobJ · Oct 22, 2012

MacAllister said:
You've been back less than a week ... and this post really seemed like a good way to go?

I think posting a link to a Youtube video of Kiss playing Detroit Rock City in this thread and claiming it's a very important link that everyone in the US should see, which is what Vince524 did, is not a good way to go.

I think posting links to material that's relevant to the topic and which provides a source for claims made by the OP, which I what I did, is a good way to go.

Celia Cyanide · Oct 22, 2012

Shadow_Ferret said:
Oh. Semis. Why didn't you say so? When I think trucks, I think of those gas guzzler pickups, not semi trailers. So I wasn't sure if you were trying to start a fight or what between automobile drivers and pickup drivers.

Yeah, people who drive semis are generally expert drivers, as opposed to everyone else on the road. So I don't have such a hard time believing this.

Gilroy Cullen · Oct 22, 2012

Anyone remember the good old days, when regular drivers were polite and kind?

No wait, that was the old TV shows.

Ever since I've been driving, it seems like everyone is the Evil Donald Duck from the Disney cartoon. (Can't find it on youtube at the moment. Will replace with proper link later.)

Turn signals are your friends.
Merge zone means allowing another driver to enter traffic, not closing the gap so no one takes your spot.
Speed Limit Signs are there for a reason, not suggestions...

And what is the point of going around a car slowing for a red light? You're just getting to the red light faster.

*shakes head, smashes soap box with Galleger's mallet*
Sorry. This is a touchy subject for me... Will leave now.

sulong · Oct 22, 2012

Yeah, I don't think it has much to do with "drivers skill" on the road. It's all about attitude, from truckers and car's alike.

A dick is a dick, no matter what the dick is driving.

Shadow_Ferret · Oct 22, 2012

Romantic Heretic said:
As long as driving is regarded as a right that cannot be denied to a person this will continue to happen. Since the only requirements to obtain a driver's licence are a pulse and reasonably good eyesight that's not going to change in the future.

Driving is a priviledge, not a right. No one is guaranteed the ability to drive 3000+ pounds of steel. And to get a license one needs to pass a written and driving test. Now you could argue that thise requirements aren't tough enough, or that people should have to retake the test every few years, but saying you only need a pulse and good eyesight is wrong.

Gilroy Cullen said:

Anyone remember the good old days, when regular drivers were polite and kind?

Click to expand...

Actually, yes I do. When I first started driving, it seemed people were much more considerate. As the years have passed they've become increasing worse. There was no road rage in the 60s or 70s. Not like it has become in the last 10 or 20 years.

I'll admit it could be my own memories and the whole aging things where life seemed better in the past, but I honestly don't recall the roads being so full of oblivious, careless, I attentive drivers then as they are now.

veinglory · Oct 22, 2012

A citation would be nice. At the very least you could say one party has primary (*not* sole) responsibility for the collision. The fatality is more complicated.

Romantic Heretic · Oct 22, 2012

Shadow_Ferret said:
Driving is a priviledge, not a right. No one is guaranteed the ability to drive 3000+ pounds of steel. And to get a license one needs to pass a written and driving test. Now you could argue that thise requirements aren't tough enough, or that people should have to retake the test every few years, but saying you only need a pulse and good eyesight is wrong.

Have you ever seen someone denied their licence? I agree, it is a privilege. But most people treat it as a right.

If you want to find out exactly how bad most drivers are, be a pedestrian. I've found I literally do not impinge on the consciousness of drivers. I can make eye contact as I step onto the street with the light, and too often they'll still step on the gas.

icerose · Oct 22, 2012

I'm neck deep in coal country so we have a lot of daily semis going to the mines, picking up coal, hauling it to the power plant, and back again.

Other drivers can be incredibly stupid. Including those who drive trucks and SUVs. Car drivers tend to think they can zip in and out and whip around semis no matter how little lane they actually have.

Drivers of trucks and SUVs tend to muscle their way through traffic, and semi drivers tend to just try to survive it all. I don't know why everyone is in such a big rush. Take a deep breath and slow down.

When a semi related accident is reported around here, they make it pretty clear who is at fault. I'd say about 90% of the time it's the other vehicles fault. They think they can play chicken with a semi and win.

The other 10% is over tired semi drivers or dropped cup of coffee ect.

cars are usually responsible for truck/car fatalities

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