Because 'Wakizashi' Doesn't Sound As Cool

Tex_Maam · Jul 17, 2012

So I woke up this morning, stumbled to the kitchen, and as I was pouring dairy creamer over my bowl of Bran Buddies, I thought to myself, "gee, being white sure is boring. I mean, I still need a pretty white girl for my paranormal romance - because duh, this is YA - but vampires and werewolves and angels and demons are so played out, and I just - "

Then my roving eye alit on the cereal box, and the colorful cartoon features of Kung-Fu Krunchee became my muse.

"-that's IT! I'll make her a ninja! No wait, a samurai, and she can FIGHT ninjas, because she's a reincarnated samurai! That's so girl power! And then I can give her some cool samurai name, like - oh, what was that one from Sailor Moon? SENSHI. That's awesome. Then her love interest will be easy, cuz I can just make him all hot and ethnic - like, a smoldering dojo-master with a Fu Manchu tache, the works - so he doesn't have to sparkle when he stalks her because he's EXOTIC, dammit. No need to fire up Google - I'll call him Kim. That's definitely Asian, because Star Trek always gets it right. Eat me, Smeyer - THIS is going to top the charts!"

So I fired up my computer to start writing Bushido Blonde -

- and was GUTTED to find out that somebody beat me to it.

So take it from me, friends: vampires are out, ethnic is in. Don't get caught behind the times: pick your favorite kind of takeout, or one of the ethnic Superfriends, and cram some color into your manuscript, STAT.

Sol Quince · Jul 17, 2012

hmmm sorry to ask a dumb question, but what is "ethnic" ?

Kitty Pryde · Jul 17, 2012

Huzzah for cultural appropriation...Though this book is far from the only fantasy about white people enjoying the mythological heritage of distant lands without bothering to be from them or have one's ancestors be from them or know anything about them or grow up learning of them or...

Sad times, that book is from one of my favorite publishers, who have quite an awesome record of promoting all sorts of diverse characters in their novels.

thebloodfiend · Jul 18, 2012

Wow ....

You really had me going for a second there.

Lhipenwhe · Jul 18, 2012

Is it weird that the first thing I comment on isn't the appropriation of my culture, but the fact that holding those swords like that is really, really stupid? Because it is.

Filigree · Jul 18, 2012

Yes, that's just an art director telling a model how to hold something they both think of as a stick. Neither of them could be bothered to talk to a weapons-master.

Anyway, why stop? It won't be the same story.

Xelebes · Jul 18, 2012

Lhipenwhe said:
Is it weird that the first thing I comment on isn't the appropriation of my culture, but the fact that holding those swords like that is really, really stupid? Because it is.

You're telling me they are not flowers?

Rachel Udin · Jul 18, 2012

TT Kim? That's Korean, not Japanese. Seriously. Kim? What? That's not a given name either. That's a surname. (Unless they got it from Kim Jong-il because they are that stupid to not notice that the whole pennisula is filled with people with a "first name" of Kim.) Behindthename.com wasn't working that day? Google was down for the entire time they were writing the book?

*sighs*

Filigree · Jul 18, 2012

Yep, basic Cultural Research Fail. I wish I didn't see it so often in urban fantasy.

Silver-Midnight · Jul 18, 2012

Rachel Udin said:
TT Kim? That's Korean, not Japanese. Seriously. Kim? What? That's not a given name either. That's a surname.

I wasn't going to say anything at first about that but since you brought it up.....

Yeah, Kim is Korean. It's a Korean last name(or surname. Just like Lee or Choi. As far as my research goes anyway.

Filigree said:
Yep, basic Cultural Research Fail. I wish I didn't see it so often in urban fantasy.

This happens a lot in UF? I mean I hate to sound dimwitted but really? I see the Cultural Research Fail more in Romance than in Urban Fantasy. Then again, I'm still "new" to the genre and the people I've read are "big" in the genre (Patricia Briggs, Jeaniene Frost, Jim Butcher).

Rachel Udin · Jul 18, 2012

Silver-Midnight said:
I wasn't going to say anything at first about that but since you brought it up.....

Yeah, Kim is Korean. It's a Korean last name(or surname. Just like Lee or Choi. As far as my research goes anyway.

Despite the Jewish name, my Korean name (as in the one I was born with) has Kim as a surname. Part of the Kimhae Kim clan, the biggest clan by number in Korea. There are other Kim clans too.

나는한국어알아수니까....

Second in Korea is Lee...

And... 日本語わかります。<-- But that's showing off. (Japanese)

This level of fail makes me feel less nervous about my own multicultural novel... I'm going nuts over here, tearing out my hair over getting the drape of the sari right for the time period and region. Did they even have a sari? How am I going to deal with racism v. the nudity at the time issue that's making me cry buckets over here. (Also putting effort into understanding Sanskrit and Prakrit (Tocharian is in there too), Indian History as a whole, food, religious beliefs of three religions at least, structure of the markets, the color of the dirt, Buddhist temples... TT)

And this author got published with a name that's wrong. Seriously. No excuse.

Cyia · Jul 18, 2012

Kim is Vietnamese, too, isn't it?

I know I had friends in high school with that name. Lo An Kim (invariably called "Loan" as in "car loan" by our teachers), Qiu Chan Kim and Qiu Mi Kim

Filigree · Jul 18, 2012

Yes, I do have to apologize, Silver. Now that I think about it, I've seen that kind of Research Fail more often in Romance and Paranormal Romance, than in Urban Fantasy.

Silver-Midnight · Jul 18, 2012

Rachel Udin said:
This level of fail makes me feel less nervous about my own multicultural novel... I'm going nuts over here, tearing out my hair over getting the drape of the sari right for the time period and region.

If it makes you feel even further better, I also tend to worry about certain cultural aspects in my novels. I typically write interracial relationships in my WIPs. And while a good majority of my characters are very Americanized or from Western culture, I still worry about getting the names and other cultural aspects right, like really worry. Because of incidents like this.

Filigree said:
Yes, I do have to apologize, Silver. Now that I think about it, I've seen that kind of Research Fail more often in Romance and Paranormal Romance, than in Urban Fantasy.

No problem.

Besides, that was just in my experience.

Rachel Udin · Jul 18, 2012

Cyia said:
Kim is Vietnamese, too, isn't it?

I know I had friends in high school with that name. Lo An Kim (invariably called "Loan" as in "car loan" by our teachers), Qiu Chan Kim and Qiu Mi Kim

(Note the heavy sarcasm): But you know that Vietnam doesn't exist in Asia or have Martial Arts. Isn't Asia one country like Africa?

金 means gold in Chinese (Jin, Mandarin/kam, Cantonese.)

Korean and Vietnamese, Cambodia and China have that surname. You are correct in saying that Vietnam also has "kim" as a pronunciation. Incidentally there is a history of Vietnamese brides to Korea too. (Indian too... but that was earlier in the history--Mongolian princesses was later in history)

*shrugs* People in China told me that Cantonese did a lot of the trading, which would explain why a lot of the loan words outside of China have a Canto-like-pronunciation. (Also said something about Qing... but I haven't looked that up yet. It's a rarer dialect/language, so harder to compare for.)

Pretty sure the author meant Japanese, but ran into a Korean name...

If the OP was correct and they got it from Star Trek, why couldn't they have picked up "Sulu" or "Hikaru"? (Or a manga. Hey, Sailor Moon... Mamoru?) Takei...

No, I'm betting on Kim Jong-Il. That's near enough to Japan, right? Saw it in a news story about kidnapping Japanese. Didn't read it and picked the name Kim from that. Even lazier than watching Star Trek in any fashion.

Silver-Midnight said:
If it makes you feel even further better, I also tend to worry about certain cultural aspects in my novels. I typically write interracial relationships in my WIPs. And while a good majority of my characters are very Americanized or from Western culture, I still worry about getting the names and other cultural aspects right, like really worry. Because of incidents like this.

Blech. Competition. ^.~ Katana clearly isn't... but you, who are educated and care to look things up, are.

L. Y. · Jul 19, 2012

Lhipenwhe said:
Is it weird that the first thing I comment on isn't the appropriation of my culture, but the fact that holding those swords like that is really, really stupid? Because it is.

Yes it is. No traditional style wields katana in that fashion. Total artistic misrepresentation.

frimble3 · Jul 19, 2012

Rachel Udin said:
No, I'm betting on Kim Jong-Il. That's near enough to Japan, right? Saw it in a news story about kidnapping Japanese. Didn't read it and picked the name Kim from that. Even lazier than watching Star Trek in any fashion.

That makes appalling sense. She saw something about Japan, and picked the most Western looking, easiest to spell, name. Probably didn't even recognise the name, let alone the nationality of the guy who bore it.

BigWords · Jul 19, 2012

Lhipenwhe said:
Is it weird that the first thing I comment on isn't the appropriation of my culture, but the fact that holding those swords like that is really, really stupid? Because it is.

There's a TMNT promo image (or a cover, though I couldn't point to the exact issue without digging through three or four longboxes) of Leonardo crouching, his katanas held behind him like that. Might be one of the Savage Dragon pieces... Regardless, there are enough films with decent poses for the designers to know better.

ETA: Dammit, I forgot Poison Elves - there's a full-page ad from... Previews? It might have been back when it was still called I, Lucifer, but he's totally standing with the blades just like that, though the image is drawn facing the reader. And I have thought about this waaay too much.

Silver-Midnight · Jul 19, 2012

Rachel Udin said:
(Note the heavy sarcasm): But you know that Vietnam doesn't exist in Asia or have Martial Arts. Isn't Asia one country like Africa?

金 means gold in Chinese (Jin, Mandarin/kam, Cantonese.)

Korean and Vietnamese, Cambodia and China have that surname. You are correct in saying that Vietnam also has "kim" as a pronunciation. Incidentally there is a history of Vietnamese brides to Korea too. (Indian too... but that was earlier in the history--Mongolian princesses was later in history)

*shrugs* People in China told me that Cantonese did a lot of the trading, which would explain why a lot of the loan words outside of China have a Canto-like-pronunciation. (Also said something about Qing... but I haven't looked that up yet. It's a rarer dialect/language, so harder to compare for.)

Pretty sure the author meant Japanese, but ran into a Korean name...

I think Kim, like many words and names, is one of those cases that crossed multiple languages but may(or may not) have specific meanings in each language(while still having the same general meaning).

If the OP was correct and they got it from Star Trek, why couldn't they have picked up "Sulu" or "Hikaru"? (Or a manga. Hey, Sailor Moon... Mamoru?) Takei...

I read a book one time that had a character named Ichigo. I didn't get it but I did read the blurb. :tongue

I also read a book blurb that had a character named Raiden I think. :ROFL:

Blech. Competition. ^.~ Katana clearly isn't... but you, who are educated and care to look things up, are.

Well, that makes me feel better.

Tex_Maam · Jul 19, 2012

Sol Quince said:
hmmm sorry to ask a dumb question, but what is "ethnic" ?

Around my neck of the woods, it's the new-and-improved "colored" version 2.0. Like, I go to the grocery store, and one of the little placards hanging above aisle 18 says "ethnic hair care" - cuz that's where they put all the texturizers, relaxers, weave glue, etc that whitefolks don't use. (As if to say, "do you have an ethnicity? Here, let us help you with that.") I don't think that's a good use of the term, though - I'd defer to Wikipedia for the better definition.

Kitty Pryde said:
Huzzah for cultural appropriation...Though this book is far from the only fantasy about white people enjoying the mythological heritage of distant lands without bothering to be from them or have one's ancestors be from them or know anything about them or grow up learning of them or...

See, I know that this kind of thing is still all over the place, and that you totally cannot count on an agent or publisher to catch it. But I guess what really amazes me is that the *readers* (well, the Amazon and Goodreads reviewers, anyway) don't seem to notice or care. Yeah, it's YA, but so was "The Last Airbender," and there was MASSIVE fanrage over the whole racebending mess. It's a hell of a thing.

Dawnstorm · Jul 19, 2012

Do we actually know the character Kim is supposed to be Japanese? The link doesn't say so, and after a bit of research I'm none the wiser, except that....

***Spoiler****

***If you intend to read this master piece for suspense, don't read on.****

...our handsome martial arts instructor is also possessed by a Samurai Spirit (or is his re-incarnation, I'm unsure on the particulars).

Rileigh (= "Senshi", female) and Kim (="Yoshido", male)

The spirits hail from the 15th century, if that's any help. I stopped researching the book at that point; I already spent more time on it than I ever intended to. I never found out Kim's heritage, but from the information I do have I could imagine him being Korean.

fireluxlou · Jul 19, 2012

Dawnstorm said:
Do we actually know the character Kim is supposed to be Japanese? The link doesn't say so, and after a bit of research I'm none the wiser, except that....

***Spoiler****

***If you intend to read this master piece for suspense, don't read on.****

...our handsome martial arts instructor is also possessed by a Samurai Spirit (or is his re-incarnation, I'm unsure on the particulars).

Rileigh (= "Senshi", female) and Kim (="Yoshido", male)

The spirits hail from the 15th century, if that's any help. I stopped researching the book at that point; I already spent more time on it than I ever intended to. I never found out Kim's heritage, but from the information I do have I could imagine him being Korean.

Well the book is about her and him having a former life together in Japan in the 15th Century. So I assume Japanese. As he tries to convince her that she's his reincarnated soulmate Senshi.

Rachel Udin · Jul 19, 2012

Silver-Midnight said:
I read a book one time that had a character named Ichigo. I didn't get it but I did read the blurb. I also read a book blurb that had a character named Raiden I think.

If she named him Ichigo, I would have laughed my head off. It's a girl's name... and it means strawberry. Uhh... makes a great samurai there.
Ha! Daimyo! What would you have me do?
Slice strawberries with your katana.

Maybe she should have named him Kamehameha instead. Though if she was into Street Fighter... there is Ken ( Americajin no kinpatsu...)... Ryuu and Raiden. Ken does work as a Japanese name....

fireluxlou said:
Well the book is about her and him having a former life together in Japan in the 15th Century. So I assume Japanese. As he tries to convince her that she's his reincarnated soulmate Senshi.

Or why you shouldn't watch Kill Bill, anime and manga and base Japanese culture off of that. Read Kokoro by Natsume Soseki. At least that had samurai and in his times there were samurai. And even then it didn't focus on the "exotic" parts of Japanese culture. (which I also get tired of in multicultural books... when it's about only the "exotic" but not cutting into how we are the same. The shoe clerk, for example. Why not a Japanese shoe clerk in Japan rather than the Geisha?)

Zoombie · Jul 19, 2012

I use multiculturalism for TWO things: One, to get lots and lots of cussing through the censor and to show people that the world is a complex, vibrant place with thousands on thousands of interesting cultures, thoughtforms, social constructions and other human artifacts.

But mostly for the swearing.

This book actually sounds like it could be kind of fun, in the same way that Lollipop Chainsaw is a Japanese view of American cultural thingies. Of course, that kind of re-contextualization of other cultures requires a certain kind of grace, intelligence, or at the very least, an insane amount of balls to go ALL IN.

But then I remembered that there is also the problem that there is an uneven amount of exposure: American culture has lots and lots of stories told about it, so that you can examine the oddities without the oddities becoming the whole damn thing. Japan - while also being fairly "broadcasted" to the world - doesn't QUITE have the same level of omnipresence.

So...I guess...what I'm trying to say is that this book sounds terrible.

Silver-Midnight · Jul 19, 2012

Rachel Udin said:
If she named him Ichigo, I would have laughed my head off. It's a girl's name... and it means strawberry. Uhh... makes a great samurai there.
Ha! Daimyo! What would you have me do?
Slice strawberries with your katana.

Maybe she should have named him Kamehameha instead. Though if she was into Street Fighter... there is Ken ( Americajin no kinpatsu...)... Ryuu and Raiden. Ken does work as a Japanese name....

For some reason, Ryuu sounds worse to me. :ROFL:

Or why you shouldn't watch Kill Bill, anime and manga and base Japanese culture off of that. Read Kokoro by Natsume Soseki. At least that had samurai and in his times there were samurai. And even then it didn't focus on the "exotic" parts of Japanese culture. (which I also get tired of in multicultural books... when it's about only the "exotic" but not cutting into how we are the same. The shoe clerk, for example. Why not a Japanese shoe clerk in Japan rather than the Geisha?)

Or at least if you do use those for inspiration only take it so far.

Zoombie said:
I use multiculturalism for TWO things: One, to get lots and lots of cussing through the censor and to show people that the world is a complex, vibrant place with thousands on thousands of interesting cultures, thoughtforms, social constructions and other human artifacts.

But mostly for the swearing.

This book actually sounds like it could be kind of fun, in the same way that Lollipop Chainsaw is a Japanese view of American cultural thingies. Of course, that kind of re-contextualization of other cultures requires a certain kind of grace, intelligence, or at the very least, an insane amount of balls to go ALL IN.

But then I remembered that there is also the problem that there is an uneven amount of exposure: American culture has lots and lots of stories told about it, so that you can examine the oddities without the oddities becoming the whole damn thing. Japan - while also being fairly "broadcasted" to the world - doesn't QUITE have the same level of omnipresence.

So...I guess...what I'm trying to say is that this book sounds terrible.

That's an interesting way of thinking about it.

Because 'Wakizashi' Doesn't Sound As Cool

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