The proper use of "onto"? Grammatical query.

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jerewrites

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Another query to more seasoned writers on the Forum:

"I jumped onto my surfboard."

Or

"I jumped on to my surfboard."

###

"I stepped onto the tarmac."

Or

"I stepped on to the tarmac."

Which is grammatically correct?

Help!
 
scribbler1382

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Both should be one word (onto) since onto means "on top of". If you said "The surfer was trying to hang on to his surfboard.", then it would be two words.

My two cents, anyways.
 

reph

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scribbler1382 said:
Both should be one word (onto) since onto means "on top of". If you said "The surfer was trying to hang on to his surfboard.", then it would be two words.
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I agree that both sentences should use "onto." I'm not sure about the surfboard sentence. I'd use "onto" there. Consulting several references hasn't produced a definitive answer.

When "on" is clearly an adverb and "to" is clearly a preposition, they must be separate, as in "We walked on to the accompaniment of flute music."
 

SeanDSchaffer

Good question....

I've always wondered about that question myself. Thanks for bringing it up, as I've learned a lot from just reading the last couple posts.


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mkcbunny

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Isn't the Internet wonderful.

I've been reading Strunk & White lately, and it's hilarious. Is that a comment on my life and sense of humor or what?
 

Jamesaritchie

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Onto

I think Scribbler1382 is correct here. "Onto" means on top of, as in putting one thing on top of another, or adding on thing to another.
 

Jamesaritchie

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jerewrites said:
Another query to more seasoned writers on the Forum:

"I jumped onto my surfboard."

Or

"I jumped on to my surfboard."

###

"I stepped onto the tarmac."

Or

"I stepped on to the tarmac."

Which is grammatically correct?

Help!
Click to expand...

Both are grammatically correct, but they have very different meanings. The first means you are now standing on top of the tarmac. The second means you stepped on until you reached the tarmac, so in a way it doesn't make sense.

If you had written "I walk onto the tarmac", and "I walked on to the tarmac," both sentences would have been correct, but would still have widely different meanings.

"Onto" always means one thing on top of another. In this case, "on to" means proceed to the tarmac, so the second sentence would really mean "I walked until I reached the tarmac. It's exactly as if you were saying "After walking across Indiana, I walked on to Ohio."

If in some way, shape or form, nothing is on top of anything else, or one thing isn't being added to another, "onto" is the wrong choice.

Sometimes both are correct, but give the sentence completely different meanings. "I walked onto the ship" doesn't mean the same thing as "I walked on to the ship." Maybe the best way of knowl=ing teh difference is to simply remember that "onto" means one thing on top of another (You standing on the ship," while "on to" menas distance or time or progression of some sort. "I stopped to talk to the dockmaster for a minute, and then walked on to the ship," meaning you after you left the dockmaster, you kept walking until you reached the ship.

As for the surfboard, "onto" is correct. You put yourself on top of the surfborad. "I jumped on to the surfboard" would mean you started jumping and didn't stop jumping until you reached your surfboard.

"Onto" = on top of. "on to" = proceeding to/continuing on.
 

jerewrites

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Use of "Onto" - Thanks all

Thanks to all who responded to my query about "onto." You are very generous with your time and advice. I keep my Strunk and White next to my keyboard. It's great, but doesn't always have the answer I need. When it doesn't, I have this Forum and all of you. Thanks again.
 

reph

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By now I've checked seven dictionaries and usage manuals, and I'm still not sure I understand "onto" correctly, nor am I sure I understand it incorrectly.

"Onto," I learn here, means "on top of." Okay, we don't hang a picture onto the wall; we hang it on the wall. The picture isn't on top of the wall. So far, so good.

But if "onto" always means "on top of," you can spread frosting onto the top of a cake, but you can't spread frosting onto the sides of a cake, right? This is one application of "onto" where my understanding departs from the "on top of" restriction. It's second nature to me to say you spread frosting onto the sides (or on them).

In the example "I walked on to the tarmac," "on" is an adverb meaning "farther"; "to the tarmac" is a prepositional phrase meaning "as far as the tarmac." You could put a comma between them. "I walked on, to the tarmac."

In sentences like "Tarzan held onto the vine" or "The sailor held onto the rope," I want to ask why "onto" won't do. Should it really be "held on to" because the relation of vertical placement isn't there? You couldn't use a comma: "The sailor held on, to the rope." If "on to" is required, what kind of "to" is this? Not the "as far as" kind; the sentence doesn't mean "The sailor held on as far as the rope." Not the "purpose" kind; it doesn't mean "The sailor held on to accomplish rope" (like "The sailor held on to escape drowning").

That is, I understand "onto" as part of a phrasal verb when used with "hold," "hang," or "seize" – there may be others – when the meaning is "grasp," even when nothing is on top of anything else. Is this use improper?
 
scribbler1382

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Yeah, I'd probably use a comma in the "farther" instance. As far as the cake, I'd probably just say "you can spread frosting on the sides of the cake" and avoid the problem altogether.
 

Jamesaritchie

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reph said:
By now I've checked seven dictionaries and usage manuals, and I'm still not sure I understand "onto" correctly, nor am I sure I understand it incorrectly.

"Onto," I learn here, means "on top of." Okay, we don't hang a picture onto the wall; we hang it on the wall. The picture isn't on top of the wall. So far, so good.

But if "onto" always means "on top of," you can spread frosting onto the top of a cake, but you can't spread frosting onto the sides of a cake, right? This is one application of "onto" where my understanding departs from the "on top of" restriction. It's second nature to me to say you spread frosting onto the sides (or on them).

In the example "I walked on to the tarmac," "on" is an adverb meaning "farther"; "to the tarmac" is a prepositional phrase meaning "as far as the tarmac." You could put a comma between them. "I walked on, to the tarmac."

In sentences like "Tarzan held onto the vine" or "The sailor held onto the rope," I want to ask why "onto" won't do. Should it really be "held on to" because the relation of vertical placement isn't there? You couldn't use a comma: "The sailor held on, to the rope." If "on to" is required, what kind of "to" is this? Not the "as far as" kind; the sentence doesn't mean "The sailor held on as far as the rope." Not the "purpose" kind; it doesn't mean "The sailor held on to accomplish rope" (like "The sailor held on to escape drowning").

That is, I understand "onto" as part of a phrasal verb when used with "hold," "hang," or "seize" – there may be others – when the meaning is "grasp," even when nothing is on top of anything else. Is this use improper?
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Well, technically, "onto" is a position, and one where top or side or bottom or vertical doesn't matter. Frosting on the side of the cake is still on the cake, and a picture is still on the wall. "On top of" is may be a misnomer, but I don't think so. "Top" doesn't always mean the vertical. That's usually a secondary definition, but it's the way we think of it through daily experience. As long as it's a position, the correct choice is "onto." A picture on the wall is still, really, on top of the wall. Frosting on the side of the cake is still on top of the cake. Even a barnacle on the bottom of a boat is still on top of the boat.

As Dictionary.com defines it: On top of; to a position on; upon.

Even a phrase such as "I'm onto you" is a position, meaning, basically, "I'm on top of you."

Because of this, "The sailor held onto the rope" is correct. It's a position, it's one thing on another, and the sailor really is on "top of" the rope. If the rope were on top of the sailor, it would be holding him. But it would be "The sailor held on to the end."

And I believe putting a comma between "I walked on, to the tarmac" is incorrect comma usage.

Simply thinking of "onto" as one thing on another may be the easiest course, but one thing is always on top of another, regardless of veritical or horizontal position. If you paint that wall, the picture still goes on top of the paint, just as it goes on top of the wall.
 

reph

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Jamesaritchie said:
Well, technically, "onto" is a position, and one where top or side or bottom or vertical doesn't matter....Because of this, "The sailor held onto the rope" is correct.
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That's a relief. Thank you! For a few hours there, I thought the people in the verticality camp might be right and I'd been writing "onto" wrongly all my life.

And I believe putting a comma between "I walked on, to the tarmac" is incorrect comma usage.
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I'm not sure – there's some latitude about commas – but at least the sentence isn't absurd with a comma, and "The sailor held on, to the rope" is. Trying a comma in the middle and checking for absurdity can serve as a test in cases of doubt.
 

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Onto

reph said:
That's a relief. Thank you! For a few hours there, I thought the people in the verticality camp might be right and I'd been writing "onto" wrongly all my life.


I'm not sure – there's some latitude about commas – but at least the sentence isn't absurd with a comma, and "The sailor held on, to the rope" is. Trying a comma in the middle and checking for absurdity can serve as a test in cases of doubt.
Click to expand...



You're right about the comma. There's just enough lattitude that intention can make the difference in such cases. Using a comma to check for absudity does work. I've been sitting here trying it on some sentences, and it's a handy tool
 

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reph said:
When "on" is clearly an adverb and "to" is clearly a preposition, they must be separate, as in "We walked on to the accompaniment of flute music."
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And this case is easy to spot, as the sentence still makes sense if the to-phrase is removed, eg, "We walked on". Or, it's grammatically possible (if not stylistically) to say "To the accompaniment of flute music, we walked on."
 

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Onto

katee said:
And this case is easy to spot, as the sentence still makes sense if the to-phrase is removed, eg, "We walked on". Or, it's grammatically possible (if not stylistically) to say "To the accompaniment of flute music, we walked on."
Click to expand...



Great point.
 
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