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Curiosity Quills Press

Fantasy_freak

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I'm just concerned about their sales.

It's not an exact answer - but you can look their books up on Amazon and see how they are ranking. Not sure if this will work...
http://www.amazon.com/s/ref=nb_sb_n...=digital-text&field-keywords=curiosity+quills
That will give you some idea of how they are selling. I would guess you'd want to see a number of titles ranking 10,000 or lower (especially new releases) otherwise they'd only be selling a handful a day and consistent 6 figure sales ranks would be a worry, unless they were selling large numbers elsewhere.

Personally I find it helpful to check a publisher out on Amazon as you can see the quality of covers and use the "look inside" function to get a feel for editing.
 
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pinkbowvintage

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It's not an exact answer - but you can look their books up on Amazon and see how they are ranking. Not sure if this will work...
http://www.amazon.com/s/ref=nb_sb_n...=digital-text&field-keywords=curiosity+quills
That will give you some idea of how they are selling. I would guess you'd want to see a number of titles ranking 10,000 or lower (especially new releases) otherwise they'd only be selling a handful a day and consistent 6 figure sales ranks would be a worry, unless they were selling large numbers elsewhere.

Personally I find it helpful to check a publisher out on Amazon as you can see the quality of covers and use the "look inside" function to get a feel for editing.

Thanks!
 

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How does one look up books by publisher on amazon, and how does one attain sales figures?

Probably a stupid question, but I've only really purchased books there, and I find searching their site, when you don't know he specific author or title, to be very hard.

Clicked on a title that looked to be a SF book, and it doesn't look terribly auspicious. No reviews at all. But not sure how to get sales figures.
 
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oceansoul

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I don't know how to attain sales figures on Amazon. I do it through a Publisher's Marketplace subscription for ranking on Amazon. PM subscriptions are relatively cheap, and a good buy for writers wanting to keep up with the industry genreally. I also have Nielsen at work, which gives more complete information, but that's really expensive so I don't recommend buying your own version!
 

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How does one look up books by publisher on amazon, and how does one attain sales figures?

I enter the publisher name in the search box and narrow the category to kindle.
There used to be an online KDP calculator, where you could enter rank and it would tell you approximate sales per day. But I think the app is no longer available.
Roughly, the lower a book is ranked the better. And if a book is ranked under 1,000 then it is selling 100+ books a day. If books are ranked over 100,000 then they are selling very few copies (1 per day at most). Anything ranked around 1,000,000 isn't selling anything, maybe 1 copy a month.
 

pinkbowvintage

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Hmm, I love love their covers, and they seem like very nice people, but the sales are a major concern for me as a new author.

I did some research on their latest released books and found these numbers. They seem to generate the most profit from eBooks. If anyone more experienced than me in small press sales and what counts as "good" could weigh in, I'd be most appreciative! :)

#215,948 Paid in Kindle Store
#835,486 Paid in Kindle Store
#940,790 Paid in Kindle Store :gone:

Here are some slightly older books and their numbers:

#258,550 Paid in Kindle Store
#1,357,837 in Books (this is standard for their paperbacks)
#10,766 Paid in Kindle Store (one of their most popular books)
 
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Krista G.

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I'll add that it's important to compare apples to apples, so you really need to know how the books they've published in your category/genre are doing. For instance, adult romance e-books sell very well, but the e-book market for YA contemporary (which is what it looks like you're querying, pinkbowvintage) is very, very different. In other words, if their top-selling books are all adult fantasies, you can't assume that your YA contemporary will have similar numbers even if it's published by them.
 

pinkbowvintage

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I'll add that it's important to compare apples to apples, so you really need to know how the books they've published in your category/genre are doing. For instance, adult romance e-books sell very well, but the e-book market for YA contemporary (which is what it looks like you're querying, pinkbowvintage) is very, very different. In other words, if their top-selling books are all adult fantasies, you can't assume that your YA contemporary will have similar numbers even if it's published by them.

Very good point!
 

DrFaerieGodmother

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Krista G has an excellent point.

And their contemporary branch is much, much younger than the sff side of things, so there isn't a really good track record there to compare with. And yes, sales are a big consideration. Unless you are the one in a hundred or so, you're probably going to have fairly average sales for that publisher (and hopefully, not sales on the low end of the spectrum).

Sales are a big consideration when you look at traditionally published books, too. I've seen books that didn't sell very well on the big scale, and then there are small pub writers like Armentrout knocking it out of the park.

When choosing between small and large publishers, there are more considerations than just the money end of the deal (but I am not denying that making tons of money wouldn't be totally awesome). There are good reasons to hold out for a big 5 contract. There are valid reasons for going with a small press. Sales are important, but there's more to it than that.

I've already had the experience of being offered good money... if I just rewrote the whole book so it was a completely different book and made my main character into a twig without any hopes or dreams (the MC was a heavy set girl). That exists. I was surprised by it because they were offering to buy a book that didn't really exist. It was like mine, but it wasn't my book at all. If I went with that offer, I can see how I could have sold a bunch of books because, yeah, that version of the book would appeal to a different audience (and a fairly large one at that), but I had a very specific group of people in mind when I wrote the book, and it would have been a betrayal to them. Which is why I went with a small pub for that title. I went with a publisher who was willing to take a risk on reaching out to a different demographic.

I don't know if it will help you make a decision about it, but you might want to ask people why they went one way or another for their books. I suspect you'll find the answers to be fascinating. And their reasons for going one way or another might give you some clues about why you're hesitant and what you'd prefer for yourself.

If you want, you can DM me, or drop me a line through my blog DrFaerieGodmother.blogspot.com I can't tell you about my sales yet, but I can tell you why I went with CQ.
 

Scythe-Of-Winter

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Okay, just wanted to ask something here. I've got an agent reading my full manuscript at the moment, and their agency (and the agent) has had quite a few of their clients books published there. Now, I thought the name sounded a little dodgy, then I checked out this thread and the first few pages, and my alarm went into overdrive mode and I seriously considering if the agent having this manuscript was such a good idea.
Granted, she still may reject me, and even if I do get an offer of representation they've still sold to Hachette and HarperVoyager, but I can't shake the concern out of my head. I value my work too much to see a sketchy publisher take it on.

Thank you! =)
 

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I've seen some reputable agents who have sold novels to curiosity quills, white horse, and other non SFWA-approved markets (I write fantasy, so that's a big one for me). It would be a bit of a let down, but it does indicate that they're not so high and mighty that they'll dump a book completely, or leave you on your own to sell it, if they can't attract a big 5 subsidiary or a medium-sezed press that pays decent advances and has a chance of making good sales.

It's also possible that an agent can get a better contract from a publisher like CQ than you would on your own, and they could still have useful advice when it comes to promoting your book (and getting your next one out to a bigger press). The thing I'd be concerned about is whether or not this agent/agency has recently sold novels in your genre to bigger publishers, at least. If they've only sold to small, non pro-rate presses like this one, it might be a warning sign.
 

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I've seen some reputable agents who have sold novels to curiosity quills, white horse, and other non SFWA-approved markets (I write fantasy, so that's a big one for me). It would be a bit of a let down, but it does indicate that they're not so high and mighty that they'll dump a book completely, or leave you on your own to sell it, if they can't attract a big 5 subsidiary or a medium-sezed press that pays decent advances...

Does anyone know what size advances CQ are paying? Is it sufficient to qualify for membership of SFWA, even if they're not an approved publisher?
 

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Does anyone know what size advances CQ are paying? Is it sufficient to qualify for membership of SFWA, even if they're not an approved publisher?

I was assuming it wasn't, since they're not. Though there are other contractual reasons a publisher might not be on their list, I think the advance and royalties numbers are big ones. From the point of view of an agent, selling a book to a publisher that has 3000 or less for an advance and is unlikely to sell more than a few hundred copies (at most) can't be a very big payback for all the time they put into helping the author polish the thing for submission and subbing it.

So I'd be pretty worried about an agent who only ever sells to small presses. They can't possibly be supporting themselves agenting, which means they either have a day job that takes time away from their clients, or else they are at high risk to leave the profession in the not-too-distant future.
 

Scythe-Of-Winter

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I've seen some reputable agents who have sold novels to curiosity quills, white horse, and other non SFWA-approved markets (I write fantasy, so that's a big one for me). It would be a bit of a let down, but it does indicate that they're not so high and mighty that they'll dump a book completely, or leave you on your own to sell it, if they can't attract a big 5 subsidiary or a medium-sezed press that pays decent advances and has a chance of making good sales.

It's also possible that an agent can get a better contract from a publisher like CQ than you would on your own, and they could still have useful advice when it comes to promoting your book (and getting your next one out to a bigger press). The thing I'd be concerned about is whether or not this agent/agency has recently sold novels in your genre to bigger publishers, at least. If they've only sold to small, non pro-rate presses like this one, it might be a warning sign.

The part about SFWA approved markets is definitely true. I'm not fussed about where my novel sells to, but if it's a SFWA approved market I"ll be happy. Heck, I already sold a short story to Pan Macmillan under their Nature magazine imprint, and since I only write SF/F, it's a priority for me.
But about getting your next book out to bigger presses? I'm not so sure. Correct me if I'm wrong, but if your first book doesn't sell well and is published by a less reliable press, won't they make publishers of the big houses a little uneasy, since you're a risk? Again, do correct me if I'm babbling, but that's what I've heard.

Oh yeah, looking at this particular agent on Publisher's Marketplace, they've only ever sold to Skyscape, Astraea Press and CQ. Not a good sign.

Thank christ I have 3 other agents with fulls, otherwise I'd be very concerned. (Should I be now?)
 

DrFaerieGodmother

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@ Scythe of Winter,

Congrats on your fulls, but you might still be putting the cart before the horse, as they say. As for an agent who only sells to small presses, don't assume. You'll want to chat with them and see if they have other sales but only advertise the small press sales. And you might not have that particular problem, since having fulls out is no guarantee of being picked up for representation. And if they are a shady agent, you can always decline to accept their offer of representation.

As for SFWA, check it again, because they recently introduced (or are in the process of introducing) a new system to recognize independent publishers and self publishers. It has to do with how much money the book makes in sales, so it is still pretty steep when it comes to small press (couple hundred at best is, sadly, not that far off for the average small press title), because the bench mark is pretty high for a small press.

As for getting your book into a big press after going with a small press, yes, it is all about the numbers. Bridget Smith and Jennifer Udden recently talked about this on their podcast at shipping and handling. They specifically mention hitting 1000 book sales to still be viable to bigger markets, the assumption being that if you can reach a thousand readers with a small publisher's platform, you'll be able to reach the 5-10,000 required on the bigger platforms for the books to be economically viable.

Hope this helps clear things up.
 

JJ Litke

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@ Scythe of Winter,

Congrats on your fulls, but you might still be putting the cart before the horse, as they say. As for an agent who only sells to small presses, don't assume. You'll want to chat with them and see if they have other sales but only advertise the small press sales. And you might not have that particular problem, since having fulls out is no guarantee of being picked up for representation. And if they are a shady agent, you can always decline to accept their offer of representation.

And not all agents keep their PM listings up to date. An agent blog mentioned this recently—another agent rarely posted sales, then a small publisher posted one she'd made to them, so then her page looked like that was the only sale she'd made in a long time. PM can be a nice resource, but it doesn't always give complete information.
 

Scythe-Of-Winter

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@ Scythe of Winter,

Congrats on your fulls, but you might still be putting the cart before the horse, as they say. As for an agent who only sells to small presses, don't assume. You'll want to chat with them and see if they have other sales but only advertise the small press sales. And you might not have that particular problem, since having fulls out is no guarantee of being picked up for representation. And if they are a shady agent, you can always decline to accept their offer of representation.

As for SFWA, check it again, because they recently introduced (or are in the process of introducing) a new system to recognize independent publishers and self publishers. It has to do with how much money the book makes in sales, so it is still pretty steep when it comes to small press (couple hundred at best is, sadly, not that far off for the average small press title), because the bench mark is pretty high for a small press.

As for getting your book into a big press after going with a small press, yes, it is all about the numbers. Bridget Smith and Jennifer Udden recently talked about this on their podcast at shipping and handling. They specifically mention hitting 1000 book sales to still be viable to bigger markets, the assumption being that if you can reach a thousand readers with a small publisher's platform, you'll be able to reach the 5-10,000 required on the bigger platforms for the books to be economically viable.

Hope this helps clear things up.

Ah, right. Thanks for clearing some of that up.

Also, as for their sales, they just made a "deal" with Skyscape and announced it a few days ago on their social media. It's already up on their PM profile, along with their other deals.
But yes, as you say, I am probably pulling the cart before the horse. But the fact that an agency still submits to places like Skyscape and Astraea Press worries me very, very much. Ultimately, you get once chance to make a first impression, and getting into bookstores is crucial (and I've never seen any of the aforementioned publishing houses' books in store, ever). Sure the SFWA has their new publishers and self-publishers in their system, but they've flopped. Hell, Night Shade Books was even suspected of being dodgy, and their books are and continue to be best-sellers and award winners. I don't think I'll be getting anywhere near that quality from an obscure press.

Again, I'm probably getting ahead of myself, but I'd rather stick it out and even write another book then have my book "picked up" by the likes of Skyscape and Astraea Press and left to rot. I've worked with shoddy "publishers" in the short story market before, and the signs stand out from a mile off.
 

Thedrellum

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If they're publicizing the smaller presses, it really doesn't make any sense that they wouldn't publicize higher-profile deals as well.

I'd say that if you know you don't want to go with the agent, then you should withdraw your manuscript from consideration. I did this with one agent/agency once I found out more about them, read their thread on AW, and decided I didn't want to chance them. You don't have to give any reasons, just state that you're withdrawing your manuscript from consideration.

Also, if you tell your agent you don't want you manuscript submitted to smaller publishers, they'll listen to you. (Or convince you of the reason why it might be a grand idea.)
 

Krista G.

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Again, I'm probably getting ahead of myself, but I'd rather stick it out and even write another book then have my book "picked up" by the likes of Skyscape and Astraea Press and left to rot. I've worked with shoddy "publishers" in the short story market before, and the signs stand out from a mile off.

I don't know anything about Astraea Press, but I'm pretty sure that Skyscape is one of Amazon's traditional publishing imprints. They pay advances (and sometimes get into bidding wars with the Big 5), publish across multiple editions (including hardcover), and employ all the same types of professionals you'd see at other houses (content and copy editors, cover designers, marketing and sales teams, etc.). It's true that most brick-and-mortar stores aren't eager to carry Amazon's hardcovers and paperbacks, but I imagine some still do, and Amazon is obviously going to push them on their site. I don't know everything about them, but based on what I've heard, I'd be more than happy to have my agent submit my work to Skyscape.

Now, it is a good idea to check out an agent's sales and make sure he or she is selling to the types of publishers you'd like to work with, but I wouldn't downgrade an agent for making the occasional sale to Skyscape (assuming they're also selling to publishers like HarperCollins and Bloomsbury).
 

Scythe-Of-Winter

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If they're publicizing the smaller presses, it really doesn't make any sense that they wouldn't publicize higher-profile deals as well.

I'd say that if you know you don't want to go with the agent, then you should withdraw your manuscript from consideration. I did this with one agent/agency once I found out more about them, read their thread on AW, and decided I didn't want to chance them. You don't have to give any reasons, just state that you're withdrawing your manuscript from consideration.

Also, if you tell your agent you don't want you manuscript submitted to smaller publishers, they'll listen to you. (Or convince you of the reason why it might be a grand idea.)

Yeah, I might just do that. I'll speak with them if I get picked up as a client. If not, then no harm done.

I don't know anything about Astraea Press, but I'm pretty sure that Skyscape is one of Amazon's traditional publishing imprints. They pay advances (and sometimes get into bidding wars with the Big 5), publish across multiple editions (including hardcover), and employ all the same types of professionals you'd see at other houses (content and copy editors, cover designers, marketing and sales teams, etc.). It's true that most brick-and-mortar stores aren't eager to carry Amazon's hardcovers and paperbacks, but I imagine some still do, and Amazon is obviously going to push them on their site. I don't know everything about them, but based on what I've heard, I'd be more than happy to have my agent submit my work to Skyscape.

Now, it is a good idea to check out an agent's sales and make sure he or she is selling to the types of publishers you'd like to work with, but I wouldn't downgrade an agent for making the occasional sale to Skyscape (assuming they're also selling to publishers like HarperCollins and Bloomsbury).

Well here's the thing: this agent has only sold to the likes of CQ and Skyscape. Only. And to be frank, I'd rather not have my novel hanging in the balance where it *might* be put into stores and it *might* go into a bidding war. That's not what I'm after. I'm not after a quick buck to be made in a hurry. And that the fact that it's run by Amazon doesn't particularly help. Besides, since I write SF/F, having a SFWA approved market is crucial for me.

I've come across dodgy "traditional" markets before that offer half-baked half promises and I don't want to get tangled up in that. I'm sorry if I'm coming across as a little stiff-necked, but I need to know exactly where my work might potentially find a home.
 

brainstorm77

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Astrea Press is not a crap publisher. They're small, but they have carved out their own piece of the market with their 'clean reads'.
 

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Yeah, I might just do that. I'll speak with them if I get picked up as a client. If not, then no harm done.

If you are picked up as a client then it will be too late. Making certain you and a potential agent have a similar vision for submissions is something you go over before you're a client. (Perhaps you are thinking if they make and offer and you have "the talk" as being the same as "picked up as a client". But if this is a big deal to you, don't wait until after you sign to talk about it.)


Well here's the thing: this agent has only sold to the likes of CQ and Skyscape. Only. And to be frank, I'd rather not have my novel hanging in the balance where it *might* be put into stores and it *might* go into a bidding war. That's not what I'm after. I'm not after a quick buck to be made in a hurry. And that the fact that it's run by Amazon doesn't particularly help. Besides, since I write SF/F, having a SFWA approved market is crucial for me.

I've come across dodgy "traditional" markets before that offer half-baked half promises and I don't want to get tangled up in that. I'm sorry if I'm coming across as a little stiff-necked, but I need to know exactly where my work might potentially find a home.

Not so much stiff-necked as you sound like you expect an agent to make guarantees. Yes, agents that only and consistently sell to small presses may not be a good fit for you. Yes, if you want to start at the top and work down you need to find an agent who has the contacts to do so.

But landing a contract with the Big 5, getting into a bidding war, getting adequate marketing - these are all "mights", not guarantees. Even if you have a really solid agent. A well-established agent with a good reputation has a better shot at getting you that Big 5 contract, and good marketing and bookstore placement, etc. But there is always an element of "might" in these things.
 

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I actually have 2 books with CQ (Burn Baby Burn Baby and Half Dead & Fully Broken). Someone mentioned cover love...and, yes, I love my covers. The reviews are out of the frigging ballpark, too. I mean...tremendous in most cases. But the sales...not that great. This could potentially be partially my fault. If the sales ever match the reviews I'd be extremely happy. I loved working with this publisher, though...every step of the way. They're amazing. I would definitely place other books with them. I do wish they had Canadian brick and mortar distribution...as it is, the books have to be ordered and delivered to stores...But overall, I'm very happy with my CQ experience. Very...
 

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I actually have 2 books with CQ (Burn Baby Burn Baby and Half Dead & Fully Broken). Someone mentioned cover love...and, yes, I love my covers. The reviews are out of the frigging ballpark, too. I mean...tremendous in most cases. But the sales...not that great.

I see both your books are ranked in the millions on Amazon. I know Amazon rank doesn't tell the whole story, do you sell most of your books in other formats/stores?