Denial, It Ain't Just A River in Egypt Baby

Scribe4264 · Feb 14, 2012

So a few days back I sent our lovely friends at PA a little note about not getting a royalty statement in years, nor getting a check in years.

I even included a link, to a bookseller with three actual copies of my book in her possession for well over a year (not virtual copies waiting to be printed).

PA's reply?:

If your books have been purchased by the entity whose name you keep a big secret, you will receive royalties. Also, the statements will only show sales from that royalty period for which we have been paid. Some retailers and distributors have a grace period of 30, 60, or even 90 days. Any sales not shown on one statement should certainly be included on the next.

Big secret? I sent the bloody link to her website with the listing of my book.

What? Do I need to fly out to Maryland, load up the PA staff and drive them to this woman's store? I mean holy hell, aside from stapling the address on everyone's forehead at PA I really don't know how much more I can do to show them proof of sold books that I haven't been paid for.

They are also claiming I've changed my address and they haven't been able to send me any statements.

Really? I still have access to all four e-mail addresses I've used to contact them (they've blocked the first three and I am surprised they haven't done the same for #4 yet) and I still get my mail from every physical address they have on file for me.

Denial must be a heavenly state, because those people sure do love living there.

Scribe4264 · Feb 14, 2012

And I also love their standard "no you haven't" response to everything.

ME: I've e-mailed you several times in the past week about this issue.

PA: No you haven't.

(Uh, so the copies I've saved of every support form submission are from an alternate reality?)

ME: I have sent you the website address for the bookseller who has actual copies of my book.

PA: No you haven't.

ME: I have mailed requests and e-mailed requests on several occasions to come into your office at a date of YOUR choosing so I can review sales records.

PA: No you haven't.

Really, these people are something else. I guess their philosophy is that if they say it didn't happen then its all good.

Scribe4264 · Feb 14, 2012

I think I will send them this next.

Me: Just wanted to let you know that the Sun rose in the east this morning.

PA: No it didn't.

LOL

Stacia Kane · Feb 15, 2012

Scribe4264 said:
I think I will send them this next.

Me: Just wanted to let you know that the Sun rose in the east this morning.

PA: No it didn't.

LOL

Wouldn't it be more like:

You: The sun rose in the east this morning.

PA: You're just being ridiculous. You need to quit this childishness and grow up.

Manuel Royal · Feb 15, 2012

J.H. Christ.

If I ran a scam like PA, I'd strive to keep all my business communications polite and professional-sounding. I can just imagine those kinds of emails (the kind that, judging from reports here on AW, seem to be typical of PA) being read in court during a civil trial.

Richard Falk · Feb 15, 2012

Stacia Kane said:
Wouldn't it be more like:

You: The sun rose in the east this morning.

PA: You're just being ridiculous. You need to quit this childishness and grow up.

Or possibly:

You: The sun rose in the east this morning.

PA: The sun lied. We will be expecting an apology from it immediately.

Momento Mori · Feb 15, 2012

Manuel Royal:
I can just imagine those kinds of emails (the kind that, judging from reports here on AW, seem to be typical of PA) being read in court during a civil trial.

There won't be any civil trials though - PA contracts all contain binding arbitration clauses an in an arbitration, the arbitrator will usually put aside rude communications and simply focus on contract and performance.

MM

Scribe4264 · Feb 15, 2012

I love how they keep writing that I haven't produced a shred of evidence of book sales I haven't received royalties for.

I mean. the name and address of the three booksellers I have found so far isn't good enough? What do they want? Videotape of the purchases?

Scribe4264 · Feb 15, 2012

I did ask them this morning if they would be so kind as to provide the physical address where their records are kept so I could come see them, adding I'll be bringing my accountant and someone from the Maryland AG's Office with me.

Since all I have for them is a PO Box, it will be kind of hard for all three of us to fit inside it I would think so I doubt my records are there.

We'll see if they will provide that address or not.

JimmyB27 · Feb 15, 2012

Scribe4264 said:
I think I will send them this next.

Me: Just wanted to let you know that the Sun rose in the east this morning.

PA: No it didn't.

LOL

You: PA is a traditional publisher
PA: No it isn't.
PA: ....
PA: Dammit!

Snowstorm · Feb 15, 2012

Please don't staple anything to their foreheads. The air will leak out.

Perhaps notify them you'll forward your email to the IRS concerning unreported income.

Arkie · Feb 15, 2012

Manuel Royal said:
J.H. Christ.

If I ran a scam like PA, I'd strive to keep all my business communications polite and professional-sounding. I can just imagine those kinds of emails (the kind that, judging from reports here on AW, seem to be typical of PA) being read in court during a civil trial.

I doubt you'll find anyone at PA who believes they're running a scam. They will tell you that they deliver exactly what they advertise. They used to have a disclaimer on their website, or in their contract, that states in part they do not guarantee that any author's book will sell. The problem is in the contract that leads authors to think their books will be for sale in brick and mortar stores, when they won't be. The books will be for sale THROUGH brick and mortar stores via internet, the same way one can order from their home computer. However, there are a few authors who manage to place their PA book in their local B&N or Hastings, etc., and they come back on the PAMB and talk about their little victories, which in-turn causes the less perceptible and most trusting authors to think that GENERAL placement in stores is possible, when it is not. With PA: it is all about selling books and services to their author pool. That's all it ever has been, all it ever will be.

Scribe4264 · Feb 15, 2012

Here's the funny thing:

The e-mail I got from them this morning was time stamped 6:34 a.m. Maryland time.

That's one pretty dedicated employee to be at work by 6:30 in the morning.

Or is it Vic reading the e-mail over his coffee at home? Hmmmmmmmm........

BTW, does anyone know why PA wants the contact info for your accountant BEFORE they will tell you the address where you can come in to see your sales records?

Scribe4264 · Feb 15, 2012

Richard Falk said:
Or possibly:

You: The sun rose in the east this morning.

PA: The sun lied. We will be expecting an apology from it immediately.

Or:

PA: The sun lied and we will be sending it a cease and desist letter in the mail.

DreamWeaver · Feb 15, 2012

Arkie said:
I doubt you'll find anyone at PA who believes they're running a scam. They will tell you that they deliver exactly what they advertise.

Actually, those two ideas are not mutually exclusive. It would be perfectly possible for them to knowingly run a scam *and* deliver exactly the letter of what they advertise.

I believe the higher-ups know very well that what PA says, and what the people who sign with them think PA said, are very different things.

allenparker · Feb 17, 2012

Scribe4264 said:
BTW, does anyone know why PA wants the contact info for your accountant BEFORE they will tell you the address where you can come in to see your sales records?

It is pretty much anyone's guess, and I wouldn't presume to know t heir thoughts, but most audits include a brief conversation between the two sides so that the auditor can give the other side a list of things he will need to conduct the audit.

My guess, they are doing this to run up your bill. If they stay on the phone for a few minutes, require contact by email, require you to come to MD to do the audit, and then only give you exactly what the accountant asked for, they will have cost you some big bucks.

this is just a guess. I could be wrong.

If I were trying to avoid an audit, that is what I would do. If I was trying to make the audit go easy and get it over with, I would volunteer to email the accountant the information, send over a copy of the spread sheets involved, fax copies of the invoices from Ingrams, and have ledger sheets that all begin and end on the same day of the month so that making comparisons over the entire span of the book sales could be done at a glance.

I want the square in the pool that says "none of the above."
A dollar a square. Make the checks out to cash.

Scribe4264 · Feb 22, 2012

Hmmm, reckon I must of finally pissed someone off up there at PA? Got this in my e-mail inbox today:

Dear Richard Paolinelli:

Thank you for your inquiry. Your message was deleted automatically.

PublishAmerica Support
http://publishamerica.com/support/

So, they aren't opening my e-mails, when I call I get dead air for 15 seconds and then a hang up and they are returning regular mail unopened. I feel so unloved right now *sniff*

ResearchGuy · Feb 22, 2012

Scribe4264 said:
. . . when I call I get dead air for 15 seconds and then a hang up and they are returning regular mail unopened.. . .

A friendly piece of advice: get help overcoming this unhealthy preoccupation (read: obsession). You will not be free until you can be indifferent.

--Ken

Scribe4264 · Feb 22, 2012

ResearchGuy said:
A friendly piece of advice: get help overcoming this unhealthy preoccupation (read: obsession). You will not be free until you can be indifferent.

--Ken

Well, why don't you hop a plane to Maryland and give the PA gang a big ol' hug since I'm being such a big ol' meanie.

Stacia Kane · Feb 22, 2012

Scribe4264 said:
Well, why don't you hop a plane to Maryland and give the PA gang a big ol' hug since I'm being such a big ol' meanie.

Richard, that's not at all what Ken meant. He meant only that for your own peace of mind/health, you should try not to obsess so much over PA and let it go.

Perhaps it was a bit presumptuous of him, but it was kindly meant, I'm sure (and was good advice).

Scribe4264 · Feb 22, 2012

Stacia Kane said:
Richard, that's not at all what Ken meant. He meant only that for your own peace of mind/health, you should try not to obsess so much over PA and let it go.

Perhaps it was a bit presumptuous of him, but it was kindly meant, I'm sure (and was good advice).

I'm perfectly at peace with my decision to do anything and everything within legal means to be a giant pain in PA's ass from now until Jan. 2, 2013. I spend a few minutes a day striking what ever blow I can against them and I consider it well worth it.

Because I don't intend to just sit down and take it like some of the others here. I choose to strike back and so far, judging by the phone call I got the other day and the responses by e-mail, it seems I am making someone's life pretty damn miserable in Maryland.

Good advice or not, it was unwanted advice and sounds more like it came from someone who has no problem with PA and its practices.

But, if it is going to offend some, then I'll just quit posting any updates on my activity.

"All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing." (Edmund Burke)

Peace

Momento Mori · Feb 23, 2012

Scribe4264:
Because I don't intend to just sit down and take it like some of the others here. I choose to strike back and so far, judging by the phone call I got the other day and the responses by e-mail, it seems I am making someone's life pretty damn miserable in Maryland.

No, you really aren't. You're not the first person to try these tactics by a long shot. The fact is that the Stooges get off on it because (a) they're emotionally crippled arseholes and (b) they know that while you're wasting your time and emotional energy in pursuing them, they just have to sit tight and wait you out. They won't release you early because they know that's what you want. Worst case scenario, they'll stick Cretin Cretella on you so that you have a potential court case to worry about.

Scribe4264:
Good advice or not, it was unwanted advice and sounds more like it came from someone who has no problem with PA and its practices.

That's a load of wank and you know it.

Neither Ken nor any of the other posters here are any lovers of PA. If you'd been here for longer than a month and bothered to check out who comments on which Forums, you'd know that.

Scribe4264:
But, if it is going to offend some, then I'll just quit posting any updates on my activity.

What you're doing and posting updates about it doesn't offend anyone. We just don't want to see you take up your time on something that will ultimately be unproductive. The best way to kick PA in the nuts is to go and write something else and get it published the proper way and then tell people about how you got caught in PA's bullshit (which is what writers like the USA Today bestseller Jeaniene Frost did as she's a PA survivor).

If you don't want to take the advice then that's fine. I get that you're probably pretty raw about what's happened and that's understandable. But lashing out here at people who are on your side ain't a smart way of behaving. We're all anti-PA and we all work to get the message out there.

MM

Stacia Kane · Feb 23, 2012

Momento Mori said:
What you're doing and posting updates about it doesn't offend anyone. We just don't want to see you take up your time on something that will ultimately be unproductive. The best way to kick PA in the nuts is to go and write something else and get it published the proper way and then tell people about how you got caught in PA's bullshit (which is what writers like the USA Today bestseller Jeaniene Frost did as she's a PA survivor).

If you don't want to take the advice then that's fine. I get that you're probably pretty raw about what's happened and that's understandable. But lashing out here at people who are on your side ain't a smart way of behaving. We're all anti-PA and we all work to get the message out there.

MM

Just dittoing MM here. You're not offending anyone, we just see you heading down a road others have traveled with no luck, and wanted to help you avoid some stress. There are PA authors out there who gave up writing or had a hard time continuing to write because of the stress; we just don't want to see that happen to you.

Support sometimes means saying something someone doesn't necessarily want to hear.

(And Jeanine is an NYT bestseller as well. And my friend; she's a great person whom I adore.)

JulieB · Feb 23, 2012

Momento Mori said:
The best way to kick PA in the nuts is to go and write something else and get it published the proper way and then tell people about how you got caught in PA's bullshit (which is what writers like the USA Today bestseller Jeaniene Frost did as she's a PA survivor).

^^
This.

There is an old saying that living well is the best revenge. I would add that being published well is the best revenge in this case.

frost_light · Feb 23, 2012

Momento Mori said:
The best way to kick PA in the nuts is to go and write something else and get it published the proper way and then tell people about how you got caught in PA's bullshit (which is what writers like the USA Today bestseller Jeaniene Frost did as she's a PA survivor).

MM

Hi all! I agree wholly with Momento Mori's statement above, but to clarify, I never published with PA. Years ago, I got caught up in the now-obsolete Poetry.com scam where they published my poems, stroked my ego with praise, and thus got me to buy their highly overpriced anthologies that most reputable book stores wouldn't carry (sound familiar, PA authors?) I wish I could say that was the end of my being scammed in the publishing business, but it wasn't. After I quit trying to get my poetry published, I wrote a couple novels, then looked for an agent. I ended up signing with an agency that milked me for hundreds in "representation" fees until I realized I'd been had again and left them. Being taken twice this way made me feel like a fool. I was so disheartened, I almost quit on my publishing dream entirely.

Then, I dusted myself off and got back on the query horse. Eventually I signed with a legitimate agent who sold my book to HarperCollins - the same book, I might add, that the scam agent never even bothered to shop while charging me all those "representation" fees.

In summary, this business has scam places under every rock looking to cash in on writers' dreams. I'd advise any author with PA to get their rights back if they can and then pursue other publishing options. If you can't get your rights back, write something else and shop that. Yes, it's tough and it can be disheartening when you think of all the time you've already spent, but stick with it and you can have the last laugh in the end.

Jeaniene Frost

Denial, It Ain't Just A River in Egypt Baby

Scribe4264

Scribe4264

Scribe4264

Stacia Kane

Girl Detective

Manuel Royal

Richard Falk

Author of "Warp"

Momento Mori

Tired and Disillusioned

Scribe4264

Scribe4264

JimmyB27

Hoopy frood

Snowstorm

Baby plot bunneh sniffs out a clue

Arkie

a reader's ear and a writer's heart

Scribe4264

Scribe4264

DreamWeaver

Shakespearean Fool

allenparker

Naked Futon Guy

Scribe4264

ResearchGuy

Resident Curmudgeon

Scribe4264

Stacia Kane

Girl Detective

Scribe4264

Momento Mori

Tired and Disillusioned

Stacia Kane

Girl Detective

JulieB

I grow my own catnip

frost_light