What's On Your Mind About Your Writing?

starrystorm said:

...Tonight at dinner my mom told me that on Wednesday afternoon a reporter is actually coming by to talk about my book and about me. I'm nervous and scared. On one hand this would be great for my publicity and on the other hand, my social anxiety is kicking in.
Just rambling out loud here......

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Wow!!! That's cool no matter what happens.

I go back and forth on my confidence in my writing. There is some incredible stuff out there that when I read it I think I will never write like that. But there is a lot of stuff out there that I know my work is better than or at least as good. It's okay to be good and not be great.

Hi lovelies,
I took a long, unplanned break from writing. I left these forums because life had gotten too chaotic. Haven't thought about my WIP in months and months. I found myself opening my WIP recently in the past two weeks, and I started writing the next scene in my WIP yesterday. I'd like to hang out here with you guys a little more! These forums help me stay focused on my work and hold the dedication that it takes to finish a project.

Welcome back!

Hi Blinkk! Hope you writing again means some of the chaos has become manageable.

Does anyone worry that their writing style is getting repetitive? That can come in a lot of different forms, but lately I feel like my sentence structure is getting stale. When I go back over what I've written, I can see a lot of sentences starting with the same five or six words. I deliberately minimize the number of sentences starting with "the", but names of main characters, "Their", "Her", "His", and a few others keep popping up.

A second repetition is in length of sentences. I have an unfortunate tendency to extend sentences beyond reasonable lengths and I have to stomp on that. But I don't like short, choppy prose either. Deliberately tossing in a short sentence can break up these singsong paragraphs, so I try that, but it often feels off somehow. Artificial?

So, I thought I'd ask for clues. Any hints?

I'm in the last act of the final book of my SciFi series. Previous books were written so they could be read singularly (ie stand alone), but if the previous episodes were read there would be a deeper understanding of what was behind the plot.

The last book brings all the pieces together (it's not stand alone), and I'm struggling a bit with the abundance of characters interacting with each other. 4 main characters, 5 secondary characters, and 9 tertiary characters, and a lot of extras. There's a ton of interaction going on, and it's tough to keep everything clear.

I’m just impatient as always, tired of squeezing forty-five minutes out of my working days, slaving over one project after another without tangible results. How can I enjoy this if it takes so much effort just to be alone and make so little headway in improving my craft?

Kerry56 said:

Does anyone worry that their writing style is getting repetitive? That can come in a lot of different forms, but lately I feel like my sentence structure is getting stale. When I go back over what I've written, I can see a lot of sentences starting with the same five or six words. I deliberately minimize the number of sentences starting with "the", but names of main characters, "Their", "Her", "His", and a few others keep popping up.

A second repetition is in length of sentences. I have an unfortunate tendency to extend sentences beyond reasonable lengths and I have to stomp on that. But I don't like short, choppy prose either. Deliberately tossing in a short sentence can break up these singsong paragraphs, so I try that, but it often feels off somehow. Artificial?

So, I thought I'd ask for clues. Any hints?

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Couple thoughts:
1) When you go back over what you've written, does that mean you have already completed a draft and are working on edits? Or are you still actively drafting? If you are still actively drafting, I'd suggest just tweaking what stands out to you (i.e. the problem is glaring and an edit comes to mind easily), then saving the rest for a later draft.

2) Have you tried reading out loud and listening to the cadence? This may be a musician's trick, but who knows? I find if I zone out and pay attention to the flow of the prose, I can get a sense of what rhythm sounds right (e.g. short, short, long, short, medium) and can wedge my prose into submission by combining/breaking up sentences.

Just when I thought I was close to finishing, only a bit of tightening left, critique group last Wed suggested major changes in a river rafting scene. Thing is, their suggestions are good.

Kat M said:

Couple thoughts:
1) When you go back over what you've written, does that mean you have already completed a draft and are working on edits? Or are you still actively drafting? If you are still actively drafting, I'd suggest just tweaking what stands out to you (i.e. the problem is glaring and an edit comes to mind easily), then saving the rest for a later draft.

2) Have you tried reading out loud and listening to the cadence? This may be a musician's trick, but who knows? I find if I zone out and pay attention to the flow of the prose, I can get a sense of what rhythm sounds right (e.g. short, short, long, short, medium) and can wedge my prose into submission by combining/breaking up sentences.

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When I complete a section, usually an entire chapter, I take a break for a glass of tea or a chore that needs to be done, then I go back and read what I've just completed. I make immediate revisions, which can be something as simple as changing the tense of a verb, or it may involve rewriting entire paragraphs. This is my writing style, and I don't think I can change it.

When I come back to work after a longer break, I go back two chapters, sometimes three, and make more revisions. My rough drafts are hammered together by the time I complete a manuscript.

Reading aloud is a good idea. I don't do this often, only with passages that annoy me somehow and I can't spot the problem. I wrote a song in my first book, a rough copy of Finnish folk songs, and it drove me crazy, so I had to sing it aloud at times. Having good hearing/pitch and a terrible singing voice is a curse I don't wish on anyone.

I'm sensitive to the flow of the prose, which is why these little problems bug me. I'll have to be a little more observant and watch for repetition in use of words and sentence structure. I was just wondering if these issues pester anyone else as they write.

It's like that day when your child first goes to school and the house is empty.

If only 'famous' writers were as self-aware as you are! They often have really over-heavy sentences and meander on in a self-indulgent way. I have started laying out some pages as separate sentences, to find out from the visual pattern if the length(s) varied or stayed the same, and found about a 15-20 word average. You are right, a few short sentences sprinkled here and there are the salt and pepper that liven up a page or a situation.

Kerry56 said:

Does anyone worry that their writing style is getting repetitive? That can come in a lot of different forms, but lately I feel like my sentence structure is getting stale. When I go back over what I've written, I can see a lot of sentences starting with the same five or six words. I deliberately minimize the number of sentences starting with "the", but names of main characters, "Their", "Her", "His", and a few others keep popping up.

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Most of these get fixed in later drafts. I draft many, many times because rough drafting, for me, is *hugely* repetitive--get the plot down at any cost, and style and craft wait for the polishing phase.

A second repetition is in length of sentences. I have an unfortunate tendency to extend sentences beyond reasonable lengths and I have to stomp on that. But I don't like short, choppy prose either. Deliberately tossing in a short sentence can break up these singsong paragraphs, so I try that, but it often feels off somehow. Artificial?

So, I thought I'd ask for clues. Any hints?

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Short sentences (and fragments) are key to use, imo, and help a passage feel internalized.

Hints? I'd say look at Le Guin's Steering the Craft --she has a section on repetition, another on sentence length. Both are useful.

The repetition that bothers me most is that I lean on the same tropes in each story and I have to work to get away from that. Also, the emotions I tend to draw from are all rather obvious and one-dimensional. Like happy/sad, which is intrinsically less intriguing than, say, trusting/suspicious. I'm more likely to have a character feel something simple like relief (or fear) than something that's actually interesting, like nostalgia (or vindictiveness).

So I'm putting attention on trying to not repeat emotions so much, but to let the characters feel a wider range of them.

Woollybear said:

The repetition that bothers me most is that I lean on the same tropes in each story and I have to work to get away from that. Also, the emotions I tend to draw from are all rather obvious and one-dimensional. Like happy/sad, which is intrinsically less intriguing than, say, trusting/suspicious. I'm more likely to have a character feel something simple like relief (or fear) than something that's actually interesting, like nostalgia (or vindictiveness).

So I'm putting attention on trying to not repeat emotions so much, but to let the characters feel a wider range of them.

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I understand this, but it isn't something that has been a huge problem for me so far. Or perhaps I'm just not aware of it. In my latest bit of writing I have an alien device trying to make contact with a young girl, and the first thing that she focuses on are sounds like wind chimes, which send her back to a memory from childhood that she has forgotten. The memory is happy, but the fact that she has forgotten it and the children she shared it with is bittersweet.

I have used memories and dreams this way before, in other books, to convey something more nuanced to the reader. Can't do it too often of course, it looks silly to analyze their dreams every other chapter.

Sharing inner thoughts and emotional reactions with the reader is a big part of my writing, and is probably true for the vast majority of writers. I agree that it is sometimes hard to show that you can be both happy and apprehensive, scared and driven, attracted to someone and shy... there are so many combinations of emotions we feel in life and writers have to work to find the best way to put it on paper.

I'm in the midst of another block. I've been under quarantine for the last few days (test was negative) but even before that life had gotten so chaotic that I was forced to take a hiatus from my WIP just to give myself breathing room. It's going on three weeks and, after bingeing on series like Avatar: The Last Airbender, playing games like Warframe, my stuff just doesn't seem compelling enough to finish, which is very depressing because it's a trend I've noticed in my novel-length projects. I set up a delicate routine to get words on paper, that routine is disrupted, so I take a hiatus to refresh myself and then I don't want to come back to work because I've lost taste for it. A lot of things have seemed dull and empty lately. Not sure if I need to treat the writer's block or the depression that might be causing it, and where did that come from anyway?

I am not new to writing, but new to "serious" writing.

What has been on my mind are the things that can be pretty crippling to a new serious writer. I get weighed down by what comes next. I find myself reading craft books instead of putting in the serious work. It is one thing to believe in your craft—to steep yourself in your own world for hours on end—but sometimes it ends in cycling thoughts. To agent? To indie or mainstream publish? All of this just to sit back at the laptop and write word after word, remembering why you are doing it in the first place. Because it is the only thing that feels right in the world.

jorlando.

I continue editing my finished novel (obviously finished is relative). I agreed with the critique advice two+ weeks ago to up the tension in my river raft scene.

But last Wed I found myself disagreeing. I have a character who is scared to death, she's afraid and is going where the rangers (cops) are telling her to go. My critique group thought she she run regardless because the consequences of not running were so dire. The story could go either way. I could go on and on with her trying to get away and failing. But there's so much more story to tell. I don't need a half chapter of escape attempts.

So, I decided this was not advice I would follow.

My son gave me a pep talk: take the advice that works. There is always going to be advice that contradicts other people giving critique (whether anyone gave conflicting advice last Wed or not). Sometimes ignoring that advice is the right thing to do. The final decision is yours (mine).

I take my critique group's advice most of the time. I have learned so much from them. My book is evidence of their help. It's also evidence I have learned how to write.

How do you develop your characters and setting without it seeming like pointless filler? When I submitted a manuscript for publishing i was afraid some of it was useless padding so i cut out anything that did not seem immediately relevant to the plot. When i heard back from them they said the pacing was just too quick and it didn't feel character driven despite my pitching it as 'a character driven space opera.'

I realize you have to strike a balance somewhere, but obviously it is something i am still struggling with.

phantom000 said:

How do you develop your characters and setting without it seeming like pointless filler? When I submitted a manuscript for publishing i was afraid some of it was useless padding so i cut out anything that did not seem immediately relevant to the plot. When i heard back from them they said the pacing was just too quick and it didn't feel character driven despite my pitching it as 'a character driven space opera.'

I realize you have to strike a balance somewhere, but obviously it is something i am still struggling with.

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So everything in a story should either A: move the plot B: tell us something about the characters or C: tell us something about the world. If your story took place in a regular American town you don't need to tell us about the Revolutionary War or the founding of Ohio or why the sky is blue, but in a speculative setting like a space opera, we don't have much we already know about the world. Like we know what moons and planets and stars are, but what are yours? Are there aliens? How has space travel effected things? Same thing with characters. If they got into space pilot academy, how do they feel about it? How do their friends and family react? How do they react to their reactions? We should be happy for your character because they're legitimately excited, not because we assume it's something we're supposed to think is a good thing.

It's kinda tricky to get that balance. You must have had some good stuff in there before you cut it all out. Go back to that previous version and scene by scene ask yourself: what does this scene accomplish? And why would the audience care? It might help to visualize it like you're watching a movie or tv show. If your character is taking a shower, do we need to know the mechanical details of how they lather their hair? Probably not. But if they're using that time to think about something (plot things that worry them or how certain parts of their body might be upsetting) then it's telling us something. We'll end up knowing that they've failed the space SATs 4 times now and wonder why they think this time will be different, or they have a really bad wound from some space battle that sci fi medicine can't fix and it reminds them of their failures, how their inaction or inexperience caused comrades to die.


As for my own writing...I haven't been getting as much done as before, because of depression, and it's not helping with my depression. I'm on day 115 of quarantine/lockdown/whatever you want to call it so it's been a very long time that I've interacted with anyone face-to-face who isn't my roommate. For the whole month of June I was doing so well, thousands of words per day, writing all day on weekends. It felt like the perfect balance of mental state because of outside factors and mental condition (writing has been difficult for years because of ADHD). But it hasn't been the case in the past week. I'll write 200 or so words/day instead. The words are still coming, which is much better than it was before, and I'm not worried about getting it perfect on the first draft, but it's still very...discouraging, I guess. This is the first time in a decade where I've felt so good about my writing and ability to get published and to suddenly lose all my momentum because (I believe) worsening depression from the world at large sucks because I can't do anything here to make the situation better, or even know when it's going to get better on its own.

Tonight I am sitting in front of my WIP.

Firstly, I am a pantser. So far it's the only way I can write. But after writing 25k of this novel, I stopped, deciding to try an outline.

10 pages later I am sitting in front of all of the scenes I think may happen, from start to finish. This is after two novels—and many short stories—of never planning what the next scene is, just writing only what I see in the headlights.

Now, looking at armature, I am completely stuck. I do not like the story in this form. I've found that writing and exploring, surprising myself by the characters' twist and turns, has been the most enjoyable way of going about my craft. The reasoning for the outlining was this: during the first draft I make some turns that derail the novel, in such a way that I know I will have to fix in the second draft to make it a better novel. I wanted to experiment using an outline, seeing if I can keep this from happening. But the only thing it has done so far has stifled progress.

Part of me still wants to do an outline, just to see what happens when I flesh it out completely and then start the writing process. Another part of me misses just opening up a blank page and getting completely lost.

jorlando said:

Now, looking at armature, I am completely stuck. I do not like the story in this form. I've found that writing and exploring, surprising myself by the characters' twist and turns, has been the most enjoyable way of going about my craft. The reasoning for the outlining was this: during the first draft I make some turns that derail the novel, in such a way that I know I will have to fix in the second draft to make it a better novel. I wanted to experiment using an outline, seeing if I can keep this from happening. But the only thing it has done so far has stifled progress.

Part of me still wants to do an outline, just to see what happens when I flesh it out completely and then start the writing process. Another part of me misses just opening up a blank page and getting completely lost.

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Why not a bit of both? What I've found that works for me is to determine what is the "goal" of the chapter and then some scenes or bits of info I want to convey. The "goal" might be "get this character to this location" or "reader learns this important fact" or "these two characters get into an argument." Then I write down things I'd like to do as well as things I need to do. I need to set up this plot point, I'd like to show this part of the setting. But when I sit down to write, I look at the last chapter and start with something that flows good from that, whether it's a scene transition, setting something up etc. My current work also has one POV character per chapter so I'll also quickly look over their last chapter, too. Then I start writing what feels right.

There have been times where I did none of the things I wanted/needed to do, but the goal was still accomplished. As I wrote I realized I could put that info in somewhere else, or that it's not necessary, or there's a better way to do it. For one chapter the goal was just "growing self-confidence" and I wrote down that the character should do some training, talk to some people, it was all really vague. What ended up happening was she recognized her skills improving and got cocky and broke her arm, we interact with a character I hadn't ever planned to have, and there's interactions where we get to learn exactly how some groups of people view other groups of people. The character is more confident in herself than she was before the chapter, but she's also learned some other important stuff that will help her when she makes tough decisions down the road. But if I stuck solely with the outline none of that would have happened and it would have been vague and boring.

So maybe make a checklist of stuff you need to happen to move the plot or have the characters get what they want/need, and jot down some ideas of how those things happen. When you write, don't feel that the list is a strict set of directions you must follow, look at it as waypoints and landmarks to get you moving in the right direction. Give yourself room to wander and see where things take you. Experiment until you find the balance of structure and pantsing that works best for you.

ChaseJxyz said:

So maybe make a checklist of stuff you need to happen to move the plot or have the characters get what they want/need, and jot down some ideas of how those things happen.

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That is a really good piece of advice. I feel as if I may subconsciously do some of the things you mentioned, but I think there is something to be said about jotting things down to at least keep a scene/character in the ballpark of where it needs to be. Thank you for taking the time to share some of your insight with me and others who come across this.

I'm also experiencing a block related to the quarantine, pretty much limited to our apartment, the doctor's office, the drug store, and the hospital. I'd felt my creativity waning in March and April, and it completely vanished in May, when I became ill. Not covid-19, but heart, blood pressure, and bloody stool that led to my staying in the hospital for most of June (there was a period of about 24 hours where I was able to go home, but I had to be readmitted). Couple that with the fact in the interest of finances (I've seen an estimated total for the hospital stay, and there ain't that much money in the world. Braise Jeebus I have insurance, but even then, I worry), I've had to stop renting writing studio space and need to see about the original set-up I'd had in my bedroom. I've tried rereading the last two projects I'd been working on before all of this happened, and I'd felt something of a spark, though I'm not going to get too excited until I actually sit down at the keyboard and pound out a couple hundred words on one or both.

What's on my mind re:writing? Woooorrrd couuunnnt. Word count.

Because the project I'm getting ready to query is too long for a debut by all the industry standards, and I know this, but the story as I've imagined it can't be split. And I'm proud of this draft. I believe in it.

Oh, right, you probably wanna know what the word count is... adult epic fantasy, 194K (down from 218k )