"White people only want to read about themselves."

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missesdash

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I actually like the second "liar" cover and think it's very close to the original with necessary changes. It makes sense, to me at least, that they went with her collar instead of her hair for very practical reasons: in the story she states her hair is tightly curled and kinky. You can't wrap that kind of hair around your mouth without covering your face.

Similarily, the model is black but not very dark skinned, so putting it in black and white would still be white washing because it wouldn't be clear she was a POC, even with the hair.

They could have gone with another cover entirely, but as far as reinterpreting the original goes, I think it works.

I don't like either of the second covers, however.

ETA: I forgot to add that I agree it seems rushed. I imagine a reissue has a lower budget?
 
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Diana_Rajchel

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It beats me why people would want to read about folks from their own culture -- their peers. Hmmm....very odd. And yeah, this is racism.

...I'm with Mardigras on this one. I find the entire attitude that white readers only want to see white mirrors appalling. People that read often read to enjoy, but also read to grow their minds. I do not want to spend my life reading about fat white women like myself, no matter how much I enjoy my own life. There's nothing to discover there.

Personally, I'd have a few things to say to your agent about making such assumptions on a personal level. On a professional level, I'd say, "Great. Can you show me the marketing research on that?"
 
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Lucas

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And if all main characters are green-skinned? ^^
 

FoamyRules

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Well this is an interesting conversation and worth discussing :). I think it depends on the area you grew up in whether or not someone would want to either read about Caucasians or POCs (Black, Native, Arab, Asian, etc) In the US they make up 80% of the population so of course since they're a larger group they make up a much larger audience. Does this mean that none of them would want to read about POCs? Not necessarily. I know quite a few of them who wouldn't mine as long as the story is interesting. But there are POCs here who wouldn't want to read a story about a Caucasian regardless if the story is good or not. Me on the other hand wouldn't mind it and I'm technically a POC (mother is half Native American and half African American)
But on a global scale Caucasians only make up about 15% of the world population so in certain countries they may be the majority but in the world they're actually a minority. I think in general many people regardless of ethnicity are pretty open minded in this day and age.
 

missesdash

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Well this is an interesting conversation and worth discussing :). I think it depends on the area you grew up in whether or not someone would want to either read about Caucasians or POCs (Black, Native, Arab, Asian, etc) In the US they make up 80% of the population so of course since they're a larger group they make up a much larger audience. Does this mean that none of them would want to read about POCs? Not necessarily. I know quite a few of them who wouldn't mine as long as the story is interesting. But there are POCs here who wouldn't want to read a story about a Caucasian regardless if the story is good or not. Me on the other hand wouldn't mind it and I'm technically a POC (mother is half Native American and half African American)
But on a global scale Caucasians only make up about 15% of the world population so in certain countries they may be the majority but in the world they're actually a minority. I think in general many people regardless of ethnicity are pretty open minded in this day and age.

I agree with this, but wanted to point out that whites (non-hispanic whites) actually only make up ~63% of the US population. Hence the whole "whites will be a minority by 2050" deal.
 

Corinne Duyvis

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I agree. I made a point to buy Liar (even if I didn't like it that much after I got it from the library) because of the cover and the issues surrounding it. I wish the same outcry had been made about the cover for Across the Universe.

The guy on the AtU cover looked different on the ARC, actually. Make of that what you will.

White Cat and Uglies both had white people on the cover as well, and I read those protags as PoC.

In White Cat, there's talk of Cassel's grandfather possibly being Indian (as in India, not as in Native), and that someone in his family might be descended from a runaway slave. He says: "People are always coming up to me on trains and talking to me in different languages, like it's obvious I'll understand them." Apparently he can pass for Indian, Italian, Iroquois...

In Uglies, Tally describes herself as having a wide nose and frizzy hair, and later mentions her "already brown arms gradually deepen[ing] in color."


I see you've all moved back to the original topic. Sorry to drag this up again. :D
 

AKyber36

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I just read through the entire discussion, and I have to agree that it's so hard finding novels of people like yourself selling well unless you're Caucasian. I remembered rummaging through school shelves and Scholastic book fairs as a child, always trying to find books with Asian (Chinese and Japanese) characters as the MC. Those selections were rare and few. 'Sadako and the Thousand Paper Cranes' was the first and a novel about a Vietnamese-American male MC and his cousin were the only ones I found. Of course, Amy Tan moved in as I grew up, but I stopped reading her after 'Kitchen God's Wife' because it depressed me about how helpless the poor wife was and what a jerkwad her husband was.

Since then, more books have been flowing in but still hard to find Asian MCs - particularly male MCs - that weren't martial artists, ninjas, math whizzes, or samurai unless the author was Asian. Murakami is one of those few who writes a true-to-life Asian MC. I found that I've stopped reading most Chinese novels because they all take place either during the Cultural Revolution or during ancient China and I glutted myself on those as a teenager. A lot of them are immigrant experience novels as well, which I also don't read. Mostly, in fiction, I find looking for a MC like that is like trying to find a needle in a haystack. You know, some Asian guy or girl who's into business, astronomy, a fighter pilot, likes bungee jumping or being a daredevil, and isn't all into their numbers or science or wears glasses and is a nerd or karate-chops the air or even is a sex symbol (*coughAsianwomencough*). Hell, even bring in Asian assassins - modern ones (which is something I'm springing off of for a short story of mine).

I think that was why when 'Avatar: The Last Airbender' was whitewashed, I was incredulous. Sure, it started off animated. But the subject material was very Chinese and Japanese and Inuit focused and Aang just had to be white? I threw up my hands at that point.
 

thebloodfiend

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Mostly, in fiction, I find looking for a MC like that is like trying to find a needle in a haystack. You know, some Asian guy or girl who's into business, astronomy, a fighter pilot, likes bungee jumping or being a daredevil, and isn't all into their numbers or science or wears glasses and is a nerd or karate-chops the air or even is a sex symbol (*coughAsianwomencough*). Hell, even bring in Asian assassins - modern ones (which is something I'm springing off of for a short story of mine).

The MC in my current novel is Japanese and he isn't into science, he doesn't wear glasses, and he's actually just supposed to be one of the asshole prep guys who sleeps around a lot. I feel your pain, regarding stereotypes in fiction, which is why I try to avoid them.
I think that was why when 'Avatar: The Last Airbender' was whitewashed, I was incredulous. Sure, it started off animated. But the subject material was very Chinese and Japanese and Inuit focused and Aang just had to be white? I threw up my hands at that point.

That pissed me off to no end and I'm not even Asian. The movie wasn't even good (saw it at the dollar show).
 

kuwisdelu

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Since then, more books have been flowing in but still hard to find Asian MCs - particularly male MCs - that weren't martial artists, ninjas, math whizzes, or samurai unless the author was Asian. Murakami is one of those few who writes a true-to-life Asian MC.

In addition to Haruki Murakami (I assume he's the one you're talking about), you can also check out the other Murakami, Ryu. His stuff is more genre fiction-y but still with a bit of a literary bent, but still with regular, everyday Japanese people as main characters. Well... not always "regular, everyday," but I think you know what I mean...
 

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I just read through the entire discussion, and I have to agree that it's so hard finding novels of people like yourself selling well unless you're Caucasian. I remembered rummaging through school shelves and Scholastic book fairs as a child, always trying to find books with Asian (Chinese and Japanese) characters as the MC. Those selections were rare and few. 'Sadako and the Thousand Paper Cranes' was the first and a novel about a Vietnamese-American male MC and his cousin were the only ones I found. Of course, Amy Tan moved in as I grew up, but I stopped reading her after 'Kitchen God's Wife' because it depressed me about how helpless the poor wife was and what a jerkwad her husband was.

Since then, more books have been flowing in but still hard to find Asian MCs - particularly male MCs - that weren't martial artists, ninjas, math whizzes, or samurai unless the author was Asian. Murakami is one of those few who writes a true-to-life Asian MC. I found that I've stopped reading most Chinese novels because they all take place either during the Cultural Revolution or during ancient China and I glutted myself on those as a teenager. A lot of them are immigrant experience novels as well, which I also don't read. Mostly, in fiction, I find looking for a MC like that is like trying to find a needle in a haystack. You know, some Asian guy or girl who's into business, astronomy, a fighter pilot, likes bungee jumping or being a daredevil, and isn't all into their numbers or science or wears glasses and is a nerd or karate-chops the air or even is a sex symbol (*coughAsianwomencough*). Hell, even bring in Asian assassins - modern ones (which is something I'm springing off of for a short story of mine).

I think that was why when 'Avatar: The Last Airbender' was whitewashed, I was incredulous. Sure, it started off animated. But the subject material was very Chinese and Japanese and Inuit focused and Aang just had to be white? I threw up my hands at that point.
You bring out some excellent points. I don't know I guess I would've been more accepting of the Avatar The Last Airbender movie if Aang had of been Asian and Katara and her brother had of been Eskimo since they were from the South Pole and not white. I don't mind reading about white characters but I do want some diversity for a change.
 

AKyber36

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The MC in my current novel is Japanese and he isn't into science, he doesn't wear glasses, and he's actually just supposed to be one of the asshole prep guys who sleeps around a lot. I feel your pain, regarding stereotypes in fiction, which is why I try to avoid them.


That pissed me off to no end and I'm not even Asian. The movie wasn't even good (saw it at the dollar show).

That MC sounds really down-to-earth real, which I like. =) I hope your novel goes well, and yeah, stereotypes suck. Sure, some people 'fit' it but pigeonholing a whole race into it pretty much ticks me off. This goes for any race or gender, IMO.

I heard it was bad. My bro went to see it and he was a lot more lenient. Because Toph's clan was apparently cast as Chinese or Asian, he was a bit more relaxed on the issue. But he still swears that if Toph's not Chinese or Asian, he'll throw a hissy fit himself. For me, I'm just cheesed that in 2012, I still can't find a strong Asian male MC - the women get it better in a way, I think - who can carry a movie on his merit without being subjected to stereotypes or is played off as the effeminate Asian.

kuwisdelu: I've seen his name on the bookshelves before as well. Thanks for giving me the recommendation. =) I've also read Kobo Abe (the Kafka of Japan), Kenzaburo Oe (amazing writer), and the YA author Noriko Ogiwara (very strong female and male MCs in her fantasy novels as well).

FoamyRules: Same here. I'm fine with reading novels with white MCs - I do it quite often - but once in a while, I like to mix things up. Variety's never boring and I get to see different perspectives if the MCs change cultures and viewpoints. I was pleasantly surprised in Neal Stephenson's "Snow Crash" when I found out that Hiro (Hiroaki) Protagonist (groan, lol) was half black and half Korean but named Japanese because his black dad served during WWII in the Pacific. Even moreso when I found out he was a high-tech pizza delivery boy and a hacker. XD That was fun. His nemesis is an Aleut as well, so talk about a nice mix-up.
 

FoamyRules

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That MC sounds really down-to-earth real, which I like. =) I hope your novel goes well, and yeah, stereotypes suck. Sure, some people 'fit' it but pigeonholing a whole race into it pretty much ticks me off. This goes for any race or gender, IMO.

I heard it was bad. My bro went to see it and he was a lot more lenient. Because Toph's clan was apparently cast as Chinese or Asian, he was a bit more relaxed on the issue. But he still swears that if Toph's not Chinese or Asian, he'll throw a hissy fit himself. For me, I'm just cheesed that in 2012, I still can't find a strong Asian male MC - the women get it better in a way, I think - who can carry a movie on his merit without being subjected to stereotypes or is played off as the effeminate Asian.

kuwisdelu: I've seen his name on the bookshelves before as well. Thanks for giving me the recommendation. =) I've also read Kobo Abe (the Kafka of Japan), Kenzaburo Oe (amazing writer), and the YA author Noriko Ogiwara (very strong female and male MCs in her fantasy novels as well).

FoamyRules: Same here. I'm fine with reading novels with white MCs - I do it quite often - but once in a while, I like to mix things up. Variety's never boring and I get to see different perspectives if the MCs change cultures and viewpoints. I was pleasantly surprised in Neal Stephenson's "Snow Crash" when I found out that Hiro (Hiroaki) Protagonist (groan, lol) was half black and half Korean but named Japanese because his black dad served during WWII in the Pacific. Even moreso when I found out he was a high-tech pizza delivery boy and a hacker. XD That was fun. His nemesis is an Aleut as well, so talk about a nice mix-up.
Oh Snow Crash is one of my all time favorites. I also noticed the lack of Asian MCs in fiction and most of them are stereotypical, which is why in my romances even though the heroine is usually a black woman the love interests have been of Asian descent. There's nothing wrong with variety, I think it's a good thing.
 
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