'Atheist' v/s 'Non-believer'?

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Melisande

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If there are infinite futures I am sure that there are also infinite pasts. Look at how we choose to believe either this or that abour our own history, let alone the history of the Universe. What if our future is decided upon our various beliefs in the past? What if we create our own future by our thoughts? What if?

But is this relevant to wether to call one-self atheist or non-believer? Since I started this thread, I have gone through some serious searching, mainly because I lost both my Mother and big Brother in a fairly short time. I received all kinds of different well meaning condoleances, both from believers and more cynical (if that is what one is supposed to call someone without faith) people like myself. I then realized that the non-religious appealed more to me than the religious, and I once again came back to the fact that I honestly prefer the term "non-believer" as it better describes my personal complete absence of belief.

Being a person completely devoid of any kind of religion or belief, I think that this is the terminology I will continue to use.
 

Roxxsmom

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Interesting question. This is an old thread, but I missed it when it was new and shiny.

Many non believers are atheists and many atheists are non believers, but they're not exactly the same thing, imo, nor is one necessarily a subset of the other.

Atheist literally means without a god or gods, and there are some who disavow the existence of any deities who still believe in something mystical or of a religious nature. There are "godless" religions and spiritual traditions.

As I see it, the term "non believer" can sometimes be a bit more specific to a particular belief system or concept (as when someone explains that their spouse never comes to church because he's a non believer, even though he believes in a god of some kind, just not the version pushed in church), or it can reference a philosophy that eschews any kind of belief system, theistic or otherwise. I'm guessing the latter is how you're using it.
 
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Megann

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I missed this thread too, but that was because I was not yet part of this forum when it was started.

In response to the questions asked:

I grew without a religion and as an adult I see no reason to add it to my life. But I am also a firm believer in religious freedom and that people should be free to believe what they want, which is why I don't agree with atheist extremists like Dawkins.

That said I do not want to see religion replacing or influencing science-education, medicine, human rights or politics.

I am a firm believer, so to speak, in a strict separation of church and state.

Edit: Just to clarify, I do call myself an atheist.
 
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Mrs-Q

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I personally call myself a materalist and a utilitarian and avoid both "atheist" and "non-believer." Neither say anything about what I do believe. I don't mind being called either atheist or non-believer, but both sort of paint this picture of my life as defined as godless. I mean, I don't have a god, I don't have a hat, I don't have a boat. It'd be weird to identify myself to people as a "hatless" or something, as if not having a hat took up a lot of my life.
 

WriterDude

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I'm happy to be called an atheist because I have no theology that I can particularly believe, but then I suspect that there is a lot more going than just brain chemistry. Quantum weirdness like entanglement and wave form collapse give me some hope but so far nothing comes close to explaining consciousness experience.

I struggle to accept the full on atheist view because I don't want it to be true i suppose, but none of the major religions ive bothered to investigate make any sense either, but I'm quite live and let live about it and so long as one groups religious sensibilities don't impinge my rights (or any others for that matter) I'm pretty cool about it all.
 

WriteMinded

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I do not even try to define what I believe, but no, I am not an atheist. I've had far too many personal experiences that fly in the face of the idea that there is nothing out there beyond the world I can see with my eyes.
 

Tazlima

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I'm an athiest, but I called myself agnostic for years. This was partly because I was afraid of the stigma associated with the word "athiest," particularly where I live (it's amazing how many people have never even heard the word"agnostic," which gives you the opportunity to provide a palatable definition devoid of preconceptions), and partly because I kind of wanted to believe in something, even though I really didn't. I love, for example, the idea of reincarnation, and if I got to pick how the world works, I would definitely choose that one. The poetic justice in having the current life reflect the previous one, the idea that we get as many tries as it takes to become our best selves... it's a beautiful concept.

And so, I called myself "agnostic" and said the jury was still out. Yet, over the years, I felt more and more intellectually dishonest holding that position. Reality doesn't care what people want. No matter how badly I wanted to fly as a child, no matter how many times I flapped my arms and took a running start and jumped as high as I could, my human body was never going to break free of gravity without mechanical assistance. On no other topic did I withhold a decision while waiting for additional input. I didn't wait and see for ghosts, or aliens, or the myriad other things that many people genuinely believe are part of the world around us. In each case, I said, "Well, I haven't yet seen proof that I, personally, found convincing, and so for now I'll assume those things aren't real. I can always change that determination should new evidence appear (as in the case of the giant squid). I saw no reason why religion should get special treatment in this regard.

Either a higher power exists in some form, or doesn't. Either reincarnation is real, or it isn't. Either I'll find out for certain, or I won't. But to me, it makes no difference. I live my life the best way I know how. If tomorrow I was presented with irrefutable, absolute proof of a higher power, it wouldn't change my path through this world. I'd most likely respond the same way I responded to the discovery of the giant squid. I'd go, "Oh. That's nifty," then return to whatever I was doing.
 
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Marissa D

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As far as believing in deities or identifying with anyone's sacred mythology/rulebook--nope. I don't do it. But I've also experienced enough weird stuff that I think there are things going on that we just don't have an explanation for yet. And as Tazlima said, in the meanwhile I just try to live the best way I can.
 

JimmyB27

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I grew without a religion and as an adult I see no reason to add it to my life. But I am also a firm believer in religious freedom and that people should be free to believe what they want, which is why I don't agree with atheist extremists like Dawkins.

Hey, now, that's hardly fair. Calling Dawkins et al (myself included) who would like to see the back of religion 'extremists' sort of puts us in the same bracket as the religious extremists (be the Muslim, Christian, whatever), who seek to push their agenda on the world by means of violence and coercion.
While I would like to see an end to irrational beliefs, I would never force anyone to my point of view, and I don't believe Dawkins would either. His weapon of choice is knowledge. He writes books and gives speeches.
Or, as The Oatmeal put it.
 

veinglory

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I think some of Dawkins statements fit easily into an extremist bucket. Such as: "Suggest always put Islamic "scholar" in quotes, to avoid insulting true scholars" "Islam greatest force for evil today".

There is also his insistence that violent rape is always more traumatic than date rape as if there is some set scale of victimhood, and his assertion that fetuses with Downs should be aborted.

Hardly mainstream, middle of the road stuff. More like Germaine Greer-style 'jumped the tracks and headed for the hills' style (re: her assertion trans-woman are not women, hence parting ways with mainstream feminism).

Speaking of which Dawkins also once tweeted a video that equated feminist to terrorists. So... his books are reasonable, his other public statements are at best inflammatory.
 
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MaeZe

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Atheist here, I think the evidence supports the conclusion god beliefs are human generated fiction and there is no evidence gods exist now or in the past. So god beliefs are explainable and there's no evidence left over that is unexplained.
 

Albedo

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How can you deny the infinite, when this thread keeps rising from the dead?


It's been so long since I posted in it that my beliefs might have evolved. I'm not sure 'atheist' or 'non-believer' are adequate (though they might still be descriptive) to explain my feelings six years later. Can you be an atheist and a pantheist at the same time? Are the positions 'there is no divinity' and 'everything is divine, how could it not be?' actually incompatible?
 

JimmyB27

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I think some of Dawkins statements fit easily into an extremist bucket. Such as: "Suggest always put Islamic "scholar" in quotes, to avoid insulting true scholars" "Islam greatest force for evil today".

There is also his insistence that violent rape is always more traumatic than date rape as if there is some set scale of victimhood, and his assertion that fetuses with Downs should be aborted.

Hardly mainstream, middle of the road stuff. More like Germaine Greer-style 'jumped the tracks and headed for the hills' style (re: her assertion trans-woman are not women, hence parting ways with mainstream feminism).

Speaking of which Dawkins also once tweeted a video that equated feminist to terrorists. So... his books are reasonable, his other public statements are at best inflammatory.
I'm only really familiar with his books, and a few debates I've watched. I would still say these remarks deserve the label of 'colossal knobjockey' rather than 'extremist' though. Saying mind bendingly stupid and offensive stuff still doesn't really sit on a par with blowing people up for your beliefs.
 

MaggieMc

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I'm a atheist, and one of the best things about being an atheist is how little time I have to spend thinking about or talking about religion. Maybe that's irresponsible of me (I think religion can be very dangerous) but I've accepted that we're never going to get rid of it (or at least not for a very long time), I'll do what I can to keep it out of our governments (i.e. vote) and beyond that, I don't really think about it. Freedom from worry and guilt about nonsense is lovely for someone who was brought up Catholic : )

I thought the God Delusion was a very good book, and I know someone has to go out and talk about how religion is not exactly a force for good in the world, but I'm awfully glad it Dawkins et al and not me.
 

Tazlima

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I'm a atheist, and one of the best things about being an atheist is how little time I have to spend thinking about or talking about religion.

Now THERE'S a misconception I've run into a lot. People seem to think that athests spend all their time angrily thinking about God. I had a conversation recently where someone just couldn't fathom that:

1) No. I'm not angry at God/religion. I wasn't a believer who suffered some huge, tragic event that soured me on a religion I used to love and convinced me a loving God couldn't let such things happen (thanks, Hollywood).

2) No. I don't spend all my time dwelling on non-God. In fact, I rarely think about it at all. I feel about religion much the same way I feel about watching professional sports, which is mostly a bored shrug. I get that other people are really into it, and if it brings them pleasure, then cool. (I'll also politely attend religious events I'm invited to, weddings and whatnot, just as I've politely attended the odd Superbowl party). But for me personally, I just don't find it particularly interesting or appealing.

She seemed kind of disappointed, like she'd been preparing a bunch of mental arguments based on these premises, and I'd just deflated her entire repetoire of debate rhetoric.

Lol, then she wanted to bet me $20 that someday I'd accept Jesus into my heart (I believe that was her exact wording). I thought that over and responded, "That's a crap bet. Either I do, by some chance, embrace religion and I'd have to give you money, or I remain an athiest until the day I die, in which case, I'll be dead, so you won't have to pay me. There's no way for me to win. Not only that, but you WANT me to become religious, right? In that case, by placing that bet, you'd be working against your own goal by basically incentivizing me to remain an athiest."

...she interpreted my refusal to take her bet as proof that I "had doubts" and would surely someday "see the light." *Sigh.*
 
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veinglory

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I think extremist means having extreme beliefs (the dictionary says beliefs that are not what most people consider "reasonable"). Blowing things up is more terrorist.
 

JimmyB27

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I think extremist means having extreme beliefs (the dictionary says beliefs that are not what most people consider "reasonable"). Blowing things up is more terrorist.
Ah yes, of course, all those moderate terrorists.... ;)

ETA: Sorry, I do see what you mean, but I also think the word 'extremist' is often synonymous with terrorist. It doesn't get much more extreme, does it?
 
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