Era of "cheap food" ending?

GeorgeK

ever seeking
Super Member
Registered
Joined
Jul 17, 2007
Messages
6,577
Reaction score
740
Which is how we got the dessert of Maine.
.

Exactly!

I found it interesting that a few years ago I read that archeologists found ruins of a city deep in the Sahara. Look at Mesopotamia, the native tribes and societies in the American Southwest. Most of the big uninhabitable places have ruins of a former civilization. I think people have been a driving force for desertification, maybe not the only cause, but a big part.
 
Last edited:

blacbird

Super Member
Registered
Joined
Mar 21, 2005
Messages
36,987
Reaction score
6,158
Location
The right earlobe of North America
Yeah...so if there was no suitable farmland, why were there plows?

To get rid of that nasty, interfering grassland prairie fucking up the soil. Why are there ever plows?

Your version is tangential to every history book I've read. Have you ever been to Oklohoma,

Don't fucking condescend to me. I grew up in the Midwest. I'm a geologist, I teach geology, geography and environmental science, and, more pertinently, I did a crapload of my Ph.D. field work, many years, in Kansas and Oklahoma (and I can at least spell "Oklahoma" correctly). I lived in Texas, and I have traveled the region of the Dust Bowl many times. That good enough for your standards? Or is it just "tangential to every history book" you've read?[/QUOTE]

the parts that are barren rock? There used to be farms there.

Exactly. When the government heavily promoted homesteading, and for a while, there was sufficient rainfall. Prior to that, the region was largely Indian land. Oklahoma didn't even become a state until 1907.

There used to be fertile hunting grounds before the farms.

Of course there were. Prairies supported a huge population of grazing animals (buffalo) and smaller game. They were a natural part of that environment. To make the farms viable, it was first important to kill as many of those beasts as possible, and that was done.

It is very clear that improper farming practices were a direct antecedent to all the land blowing away.

Which is pretty much what I said. You missed my point. The farming in western Oklahoma and adjacent portions of Kansas, Colorado and Texas was promoted, heavily, by governmental policies. And, as I said, they got lucky for 20-30 years, with somewhat above average precipitation in most years. But having got rid of the grass cover, the soil was exposed horribly to weather when the 1930s drought arrived, and there wasn't any way to protect it. And one of the many fallouts to this catastrophe was the promotion of contour plowing and other practices designed to retard soil erosion, which has had some beneficial aspects.

Still, much land was plain ruined, and will never be returned to farming practices. And what has been is now heavily dependent on irrigation. If you fly over this region you pass a wide stretch of circular fields, irrigated by big radial watering apparatuses. These are drawing water from major underground aquifers far faster that that water can be recharged by natural processes. Now, we are essentially mining fossil water in these areas, and depleting it. Plus, in hot dry-land areas, irrigation brings all manner of other problems, like concentration of salt evaporite minerals near the surface and in the soil.

Clarified?
 
Last edited:

Don

All Living is Local
Super Member
Registered
Joined
May 28, 2008
Messages
24,567
Reaction score
4,007
Location
Agorism FTW!
Gee. I always thought the dessert of Maine would be something like lawbstah shawtcake.
Nope, it's between whoopie pie and wild-blueberry pie. I dunno if the legislature has settled the issue in the last 4 days, but we had a thread about the debate.

As for what happened to cause the dustbowl, it's not uncommon to find some glossing over in authoritative textbooks when it comes to discussing unintended consequences of government policies. ;) The story I got growing up blamed it all on those stupid farmers and weathermen, with not much backstory about why and how that prairie got plowed under in the first place. It wasn't until I had to put two and two together on my own that I realized you can't convert an area to farmland by dictate. Mother nature doesn't pay much attention to proclamations.

As you said, we've been paying for the plowing of the prairies for generations, and I don't see the installment plan ending anytime soon.
 

Deleted member 42

It's very odd to look at archaeological studies of Neolithic Ireland and Britain, and realize that Ireland was almost completely denuded of large old growth hardwoods, and even of fruit-bearing and nut-bearing trees well before the Iron age.

And that in large areas of Ireland in the late bronze age there was no real topsoil; it had blown and washed away because there were no trees or shrubs, and the gorse and hawthorn were also gone, consumed by sheep.

So the rains would come, and wash away the top soil, which ran into rivers . . .

The fact that the medieval native laws have to tell people "no, you can't allow your pig sewage to run into the river" sorta says a lot, too. Sound familiar?

It's like we can't seem to figure out that soil isn't an instant creation, and that it can disappear, and that people drink that water. . .
 

icerose

Lost in School Work
Super Member
Registered
Joined
Jun 23, 2005
Messages
11,549
Reaction score
1,646
Location
Middle of Nowhere, Utah
The same thing happened to Utah, New Mexico, Wyoming, and many other neighboring states. They took away the buffalo and accidentally brought in sage brush, an invasive species. The area I live in was described as having grass up to a horses belly.

68873446_4c62c73b69.jpg


This is what it looks like now. There have been experiments. You take away the sagebrush and reintroduce the buffalo and shockingly. The grass comes back and is everywhere.
 
Last edited: