Word Count for Thriller Novels

either you need more fleshing out, or trim it to a novella.

Note the 2 aren't mutually exclusive; you may have been told repeatedly to cull redundant sentences, which could trim 40 pages, but if it serves the story you may be able to work in 100 pages of your MC's preparations for the final shootout, tutelage under a grandfather, etc......

70k is really low for a thriller. You may want to work in another subplot, or send the main arc after a red herring, etc. Also, make sure you have enough downtime between action sequences--a thriller that's all action gets monotonous very fast.

80 - 100,000 is the average word count for a debut thriller.

My best advice is to build up a few more posts, then post it in SYW. Also drop into the MTS sub-forum.

greenpower said:

Started another subplot in my thriller, The True Virus, and this new character gets killed ¾ into the novel. Now what do I do? My word count at this time is only 67k. I understand that the entry level word count for a thriller novel is 70k. I’ve been told that a new writer should shoot for 90 to 100k to have a chance.
Also, when I’ve shared my work in this forum, I’ve been told that I get too wordy. Check out the chapters I’ve opened up for critique (Share Your Work). Any advice would be appreciated.

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Yep. I've critted. Too wordy. More content needed, with less exposition (telling).Check this out.
Stan

I'm having a similar problem. My mystery is running short. It is definitely mystery rather than thriller with a somewhat hard-boiled edge. What would you say is a decent length for a first mystery?

To steal the thread.

Albannach said:

I'm having a similar problem. My mystery is running short. It is definitely mystery rather than thriller with a somewhat hard-boiled edge. What would you say is a decent length for a first mystery?

To steal the thread.

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See the post right above yours. Click on Check this out.

I recently finished a suspence thriller novel that is 130000 words. My font averages 300 words per page. If I had to cut 30000 words out, I'd have to cut my story by 100 pages! That's impossible, especially with the technical aspect of my story. If my novel is too long at 130000 words, does that mean as a first timer, I'm dead before I even get into the game?

John

grizzletoad1 said:

I recently finished a suspence thriller novel that is 130000 words. My font averages 300 words per page. If I had to cut 30000 words out, I'd have to cut my story by 100 pages! That's impossible, especially with the technical aspect of my story. If my novel is too long at 130000 words, does that mean as a first timer, I'm dead before I even get into the game?

John

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There are no hard and fast rules only guidelines to go by. If the story is fantastic and 130K is what it takes to tell it, you should be all right- BUT (you knew that was coming, didn't ya?) But, nothing is impossible- you would be surprised what you can cut and not lose the storyline- I subbed a 140K thriller, was told to revise and resubmitt and bring the word count down to somewhere between 90-100K. I did and it turned out to be a much tighter and far better read because of the edit- Kill your darlings, its' not easy but sometimes its worth it in the end- oh that book was then accepted for publication and will be out June of 2011.

green, my first thriller was 62k. Too short. There's nothing else I can add. So, it's a great story (only a few have read it, and they loved it) but it's not going to be published. Took me a LOOOOOOONG time to figure that out, but I had to shelve it. I don't throw them away, just shelve them because I like to think of them as my special kids that only I can hang out with.

It really depends. My publisher, Mainly Murder Press, looks at mystery and crime (and thrillers) in the 50 to 70k range. I had to cut to get to 70. I took out the POV of one of the characters and I don't think it's missed at all. They used to do only New England writers but they are now open to any location. Todd, your 62k thriller would fit right in there.

My first novel, in a planned series, stands at just over 80k. Of course, the last few chapters are still out on review.

Now I'm really concerned. At 130,000 words, my novel sounds like it's really bloated. I think I might be able to cut it down by 5,000, maybe 10,000 words if I really tried, but the story has some fairly technical points and a complex plot by my evil doers that really need to be explained in order for the reader to understand what I'm talking about. It is set on a railroad, and railroaders have a lingo all their own. How many out there understand what it means when an engineer is told to "dump" his train? It is a simple term that means to slam on his emergency brakes, but it's a more complicated matter than that. How do I shorten something like that? I like descriptive narration that paints a picture in a reader's mind with words. I don't like just giving them a sketch. I prefer to give them a full color portrait of what's going on. If I have to chop all this up in a blender just to get looked at, then I guess I've really wasted the last five months of my time that I invested in this story. I have very serious doubts I could ever cut this below 120,000 words.

John

grizzletoad1 said:

Now I'm really concerned. At 130,000 words, my novel sounds like it's really bloated. I think I might be able to cut it down by 5,000, maybe 10,000 words if I really tried, but the story has some fairly technical points and a complex plot by my evil doers that really need to be explained in order for the reader to understand what I'm talking about. It is set on a railroad, and railroaders have a lingo all their own. How many out there understand what it means when an engineer is told to "dump" his train? It is a simple term that means to slam on his emergency brakes, but it's a more complicated matter than that. How do I shorten something like that? I like descriptive narration that paints a picture in a reader's mind with words. I don't like just giving them a sketch. I prefer to give them a full color portrait of what's going on. If I have to chop all this up in a blender just to get looked at, then I guess I've really wasted the last five months of my time that I invested in this story. I have very serious doubts I could ever cut this below 120,000 words.

John

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Yep. Me too. First book, 125K and no possibility of getting under that. But an agent called and said he'd rep it if I could get it below 110K. Within a week, it was down to 107K. I had to orphan a minor character, but she didn't mind.

Never say never. You'll find a way.
Stan

Stan

I have to say that I won't be impressed by a huge lumps of text explaining the intricacies of putting on the brakes of a train.

As for narration, too painterly could be tedious and purple. I love the style of Philip Pullman, but if you go overboard it can come across as control freakery.

As for narration, too painterly could be tedious and purple.

I love that description, and so does my wife! She's been telling me for some time that I sometimes get a little long winded, but now I do believe I can find a fair amount of stuff I can cull down in my manuscript. Here's hoping it'll add up to abot 25k words. Anyone got some thinner? I've really gotten some good inspiration since I joined up with this site!

My best advice would be to get a good beta- someone who doesn't know you would be the best bet- they will be honest and tell you if the prose is to long winded or purple-

Sheadakota,

Where do you find these beta readers? And how do you know you can trust them?

Grizzletoad, there is a sub-forum here on AW that allows you to post saying that you are looking for a beta reader.

The best way to build trust with someone, is to build a relationship. Find out what their experience is. There are a lot of agents and editors on AW who don't advertise the fact.

grizzletoad1 said:

It is set on a railroad, and railroaders have a lingo all their own. How many out there understand what it means when an engineer is told to "dump" his train? It is a simple term that means to slam on his emergency brakes, but it's a more complicated matter than that. How do I shorten something like that?

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By giving the reader the information on a higher level.

On a thread in the Novels section I gave a high level summary of a complex scientific topic. Can you post your technical section here or on SYW? I may be able to help you. I have to do this sort of thing all the time in my job.

grizzletoad1 said:

I like descriptive narration that paints a picture in a reader's mind with words. I don't like just giving them a sketch. I prefer to give them a full color portrait of what's going on.

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As a reader, if you give me too much description, I skip over it. Not all readers are like me, but I only want to know enough that I feel connected to the story. When it gets over done, I scroll past it.

Bugger.

I'm more than halfway through my less than thrilling thriller and I'm only on the 40k mark.

Strangely enough I tried a typesetting experiment, lifted from the pages of a James Patterson work, and I'm at the 200 and something page mark.

So, as I'm going to come up short, do you think it would it be better for me to query with, say, a 287 page thriller instead of a word count?

Regards

Whacko

something to think about

The technical aspect of your story shouldn't take up any pages at all. No one, absolutely no one, wants to read a lot of technical stuff. Technical stuff should be blended into the plot in such a smooth way you don't even notice it's there.

Take my word for it. I'm an aerospace engineer who's read science fiction and techo thrillers most of his life. I'll make an exception for Bob L. Forward, but 99.9% of the time if you have too much tech info it's (1) flat out wrong (give a writer enough rope and he'll hang himself) and (2) boring.

If you reread a Michael Creighton story, count how many dedicated words are really spent on the technology. Not that much I bet. Don't over explain, just give the outline.

Whacko - agents and publishers are looking for word count, not page count. They used to be strict about the font and the point size too, but I find as more agents and publishers accept electronic submissions, that stuff is less important. You can figure roughly 200 to 250 words per page.

think about it differently

OK, I personally don't want an explanation of what it means to "dump" a train. I don't need any explanations at all. Do I get explanations in a play? In a movie? Nope, they just show it.

So show it. He yells "I'm going to dump the train," then show the wheels smoking, the g-force, people falling, whatever happens when you dump a train. That's part of the action, and you were going to describe it anyway, right? Who cares what the internal mechanics are?

The fact is, stopping your story to explain a term just blows the reality factor out the window. Like having all the actors in a play freeze while one actor explains to you what a word means. Use the word in the right context, and we'll know what it means.

In general, if someone has 30% bloat due to technical explanations no one is going to read it, right? I might guess 3% explanation bloat is OK. Kind of blunt, but would you read a novel if you knew it was 30% explanation?

I could be totally off base right here, I haven't read your novel, but this is my gut reaction to what you wrote.

Really, the only exception I've seen is some Tom Clancy type novels where the war boys get off on the technical descriptions, but that's a niche market. If you're writing for railroad afficionodos that's a different story.

Some people do have a knack for making technical info sound exciting. There's a Lee Child novel where at least half of the opening chapter deals with the technical description of a New York subway car, but he does it deliberately, as a contrast to the action that's going on at the same time. If you can write like Lee Child, go ahead.