valuable lessons?

Biding my time before I remove my eldest from the school. Hubby says we need to wait until the break to make the departure less obvious.

I spoke with the teacher this morning. Gah, it's gotten really bad. We're to the point that she set aside class time to tell the class not to harass or threaten my son.

Yeah, that should do it. I think she's nice, and she's trying, but I also think she was absent during some crucial lectures on social psychology/classroom management while at college.

He's a good kid: straight A's, 0 behavioral problems, even his teacher says he's "academically misplaced" in his current grade.

I might suggest he learn to cope if it were just a couple of irascible twits causing the issue. But this, no, this is more like little frightened villagers with pitchforks trying to erect an Auto de Fe in his honor on a daily basis.

He's not small for his age, he's not obnoxious or rude...he's just smart. He's smart to the point of being really different. And you'd think that would be such a wonderful thing, but it's not. It's miserable to watch because his only mistake in the whole thing is just being smart. Not mean, not socially inept, not rude...just smart.

I'm not saying his brother isn't smart, and that's why he gets along. It's just that my older boy is different. It's so hard, because there's a real rift growing because my older guy sees his brother being accepted while he's not. And I can't tell him why.

But, I'm wondering how any of this is valuable? Where is the value in learning to take abuse? I don't see how this relates to the "work world" since I can't think of a single instance where you wouldn't sue the pants off of any company that allowed verbal and physical harassment to go unchecked on a daily basis. Any sane person would quit a job where things are thrown at them and they are physically threatened.

I'm all for coping skills, but... is it really a coping skill to force my kid into a situation that puts him in line for Prozac, Jr. and makes him feel the only way to get on in life is to NOT be yourself as much as possible??



I don't really want to wait until break. I didn't even want to send him today. Blah. I wish I knew why things are so easy for my younger guy and so damned difficult for my oldest.

Rarri said:

No. Do what'll make your child happy, if that means being away from a distressing situation, then do it. The key word (for me, anyway) is force; it's one thing to cope with an unpleasant situation, it's another to force someone to remain in an unpleasant situation. Also (really trying to think how to put this simply), Prozac Jr. may not be the only side-effect, there's also the potential for things to become screwed up in the long-term. Sorry, i'm not explaining myself well, but you're welcome to PM if you want the extended ramble. I guess most important thing about this is having a happy (or at least, happier) child, at the end of the day.

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Oh no, I understand your meaning very well. There are many frightening potential problems that can come from this kind of thing. Taking kid-sized prozac is probably the least distressing of the ones I can imagine.

Trust me, the whole "valuable lessons" comment from the teacher very nearly had me ready to say a variety of snarky and unpleasant things.

I never really thought that pounding cynicism, misanthropy, apathy, and anger into a child was a good thing or in any way valuable.

I lost a lot of respect for this woman in the course of the conversation this morning.

Rarri said:

It's okay, i didn't think that you thought these things were in any way good. But yes, medication can be the least of the potential problems that may arise. Sadly there aren't enough good teachers in the world and, in cases such as your own, good intentions can often go terribly awry.

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I was a lot like my older boy (quiet/relatively good student), but honestly, not anywhere near as intelligent. So, I can kind of empathize.

Good intentions poorly executed. I'm just trying to wrap my brain around the notion of trying to solve the problem of a child getting picked on for being different by singling him out and reinforcing the apparent difference.

"I'm going to single him out so you guys can remember not to single him out in the future...got it? Good. Now, I'm going to set out the bats for today's PE lesson in baseball, and step out of the room. Surely, everything will go well in my absence..."

I mean, it's about that brilliant.

COchick said:

I am homeschooling my oldest son after going through some of what the OP described. He would come home after feeling so beat down, and he wasn't learning a darn thing. I agree that homeschoolers get labeled as freaks very often, but hey--it works for us. He might go back to school one day, he might not until college. We take it one day at a time.

I guess my little speech probably doesn't help ad_lucem any, but I hope you make the decision that is right for you!

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Well, I know homeschoolers aren't freaks, but it's always nice to hear it again for my own sanity. My son was home-educated for a long time prior to this year. I've met some freaks who are homeschoolers, but I've met plenty of freaks who sent their children to private and public schools.

Freaks come in all shapes and sizes. I would guess that being a freak generally comes before being anything else and probably predates having kids, too.

What makes it hard is I have one child who loves school and another for whom school is torture.

And they are both sharp kids. My eldest comes off a bit "little-man-tate-ish" but my younger guy blends into the crowd w/o attracting attention. The worst we've had with the younger is the picking up of nasty habits. But, I threatened to home school him if he didn't stick to the values I'd taught him and he's since straightened up.

So, I'll have one in and one out and my preschooler and the baby...which, lord knows what road they'll take in a few years' time.

Knowing my luck, I'll have to find four different strategies to suit each one.

Damned kids and their tendency to be unique individuals!!!

EFCollins said:

*raises hand* I know we have some very different views on kids and stuff, but you've always been polite and we've managed to have good, respectful conversations, even about things we disagree on (which is uber cool... people get touchy about some of this stuff). But I wanted to say I'm so sorry your son is being harassed badly enough for you to want to remove him from school. My son (the oldest) was too, and still is being, but not because he's super smart (my kids are smart, yes, but that's not the issue) but he is different and has his own views on how he expresses himself (recently it was blue hair).

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Well, on that note. There's no single "right" way to raise a kid. Even in one family with several kids, I find myself challenged to meet their needs as individuals. I'm only touchy when someone is getting hurt, other than that... I figure you've got to call it as you see it. A good number of the parents out there in the world are doing their best.

And yes, being different, however the difference comes across, is hard. I hate the pressure to conform just for conformity's sake.

Again, I wouldn't care, but this is yet another time that it's the whole damned class giving him grief. It's not just one or two difficult interactions. He's really a little-man-tate type, and it really just galls the other kids to no end. Everywhere we've gone it's been this way. And I've seen what he's doing. He's really not doing anything wrong.

I'd be the first to say if he was. I'm not one of those "my children are always angels" parents. If they're behaving like idiots, I tell them to cut it out.

There aren't a lot of gifted options. Many are programs as part of other schools where the kids are still mixed to some degree. But, there are a lot of enrichment programs through local colleges and universities--as well as volunteering options. So, he wouldn't have to be a shut-in. Very few homeschoolers are that, anyway. It's a very diverse group.

We've actually tested the water on several different schooling options. He was in a "gifted" program in kindergarten. It only met a few times per month and he was the only kindergartener accepted into the program *facepalm* the rest were 2nd graders. Then, we tried an private school--not enough and broke the budget in the process. Then, we tried an alternative public school/home school enrichment with gifted program--not enough. Last, here we are at the public charter--not enough.

I'm gun shy of "gifted" programs, too, these days. I'm at the point of throwing my hands up and saying "screw it" to the whole k-12 debacle and just holding out for some form of early college entry program. The k-12 environment has been pure poison so far.

I mean, I want him to have good memories and friends and a good education. So far, it's been nothing but a mess.

Then, on the other hand is my other son who has taken to the whole thing like a duck to water. I wish it could be the same for both, really. But, they're different people. I mean, on the bright side, I've raised both of them. So, I know the stuff w/ my oldest isn't "all my fault". I didn't "make him" that way.

EFCollins said:

There are other things to consider, yes. Coping skills are important, and these types of confrontation can indeed teach a child how to deflect intense and potentially violent situations later on in life. But at risk of his mental health? No. It is not worth it. He can learn that in a school more suited to him because confrontation is everywhere and not at all avoidable. This level of harassment isn't healthy.

Choosing the place our kids go for education is important and so many people simply have to go with the one in their district because there are few alternatives. Hopefully, there will be some alternative options for you and him because the social skills learned in a school environment are an important part of growing up too. This is not to say kids who are home schooled miss out--there are, after all, sports and other things he could gain this benefit from. But the school years have precious memories if they are good. I hope you figure out something, Ad_Lucem. Good luck.

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Thanks. I think we'd all like to see our kids leave childhood with fond memories of friendships and playing on the playground, etc. What really makes me want to rip my hair out is that my younger son is getting that but I'm bending over backwards and not getting the same result for my older kid. And, again, he's not doing anything *wrong*. I would understand if he was antisocial and just a pain to be around...I'd get him into therapy or try to iron that out some other way...but that's just not the case.

quickWit said:

I'm sorry your son is having a difficult time, ad, but am I the only one who's reading these posts thinking that 'smart' has so little to do with whether or not a child fits in in school? It's much more a matter of social skills, isn't it?

I only bring this up because the common thread in these posts seems to be "I was smart so I didn't fit in". I don't think one's got much to do with the other, that's all.

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Well, it isn't a lack of social skills. I can tell you that, because he's volunteered and participated in a variety of activities over the years. He does very well in situations where the ages of people are mixed and relates well to both the very young (used to volunteer at the childwatch for the local Y...was very patient with the little ones and worked well with the other kid volunteers/staff) and people who are older than him. In a group of his own age-mates...he's usually harassed like it's going out of style. If he were socially inept or awkward, he wouldn't be able to do so well in these other settings.

My younger boy is smart, but he works it out. He's also a different kind of smart. My older son acts, speaks, and thinks more like a miniature adult. I can tell you from taking classes in human development and from evaluations he's had... he's just all around ahead. He sticks out like a sore thumb.

I'm not trying to gloat. The situation is actually a pain in the backside and I'd rather things were easier for him the way they are for my younger son.

I didn't fit in, but I was quiet, and a social-phobic. I wasn't set apart as a brainiac. I wasn't/am not a brainiac. I'm not a dumb@ss, I don't think, but I couldn't have compared to what my older son has going on upstairs at a similar age.

No, it's more than being "smart" it's more a matter of being universally ahead. That's not a gloat or an excuse. In a class of age-mates he just sticks out, because he just doesn't come across as one of them. Kids aren't stupid. They pick up on the difference, which is especially pronounced when the room is a sea of same-age kids acting/thinking in roughly the same way.

tjwriter said:

A lot of highly intellectual people can lack social skills. I've seen it time and again. I was made fun of for being smart, being fat, etc. I'm just lucky I had the emotional maturity to say screw them and turn off the negative noise. A lot of other kids couldn't do that.

It still sticks with me to this day. I can't stand to kids making fun of other kids like that. I don't tolerate it if I'm present.

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Yes, but I will say, he's not socially inept.

As an example, when his brother was upset about losing his receipt for his tickets at chuck e cheese (a fair amount, a few hundred tickets he'd won). My older son gave him all of his ticket receipts and then used the rest of his tokens to win the difference--completely replacing my younger son's tickets.

Another example, at a street painting festival, it got a bit hot so he went to help out in the artist's area. While there, he organized the chalk exchange by hue, tidied up the place, held conversations with the visiting artists from across the states/globe, and set about trying to help the other artists in gathering up the chalks that fit their mural, etc. He also made fast friends with an older boy that was there. People stopped by our square, not to compliment my artwork, but to tell me how much my son had helped them.

He's not afraid to talk to people. He interacts normally, and laughs at jokes. I mean, this isn't a kid who can't hold his own. The other kids literally don't like him because he just isn't like them. It's that simple.