Trying To Write Real Dark Poetry?

Not sure how many people are going to follow your links, just so you know.
Can you explain a bit more what exactly you're trying to write and how we can help?

Is it music you want to discuss or poetry?

It really has nothing to do with that; I've read Tupac's poetry book, and quite enjoyed a number of the poems (Including the Rose in the Concrete, that you've posted here.) I believe all lyricists (and rappers who write their own raps) are poets regardless of how well or poorly they write. As far as writing something dark, I don't think it's the dark aspect you should be focusing on, it's the message. What do you have to say about yourself, the human condition, the world? What is it that you want people to know? If it comes out dark, then I suppose that's the way the poem was supposed to go. If it doesn't then maybe it wasn't supposed to be dark.

Happy Writing,
Poetic Justice

TheGreatestWriter said:

Poetry, rap music is poetry with a beat. Rappers are poets (well, some of them, not all).

Do you dislike this anthology because they're niggas?

Well, I got a quote from you by 2Pac.

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I'm not disputing that rap is poetry. I don't believe I made that statement.
I certainly didn't make a single remark about race.
I am one of the moderators of this forum and was making sure you were posting your questions/discussions in the proper forum.
Also, not really liking the uncredited swatches of lyrics/poetry you are posting here.
It's inappropriate, I think.

Now.


Start a conversation about rap as poetry and I bet you'll have a very thoughtful conversation on your hands.
accuse people of being racist because they are trying to figure out what you're talking about and this isn't going to last long.


Are we done with this conversation or do we need to take it to PM?

People write in a natural voice. If you try to write about something that does not come natural it sounds broken. If you are happy, don't try to write about being sad. It doesn't work that way. It reads fake because they are fake words written without any truth. Don't try to write like someone else or write as if you lived someone elses life. Write about your life.

I've removed the lyrics you posted, TheGreatestWriter.

I'd like to suggest that you read the newbie guide at the top of the forum and return to poetry and/or music forums with an adjustment in attitude.

Again, Welcome. If you have questions about which forums to post particular topics, don't hesitate to ask.

No one should ever TRY to write anything, you should just write something. If you WANT to write a particular form then give it a shot - but if it don't flow, let it go - if on the other hand, you THINK it might be good to TRY and be dark because you WANT to be something you're not...give up, don't bother, because unnatural and soulless poetry are the bane of all serious writers/poets who practice the craft or exposing their inner-most selves and express the truth to their human condition (whether 'dark' or 'pink and fluffy'). Write what's in your soul/mind/heart and not what you see posted on you tube or belive is in fashion...

I think one must define what one means by "Dark" Poetry,
Are we talking about socially taboo subjects or mysterious and frightening ones. Many of Edgar Allen Poe's poems were considered to be dark as were those of Ambrose Bierce.

I've written a number of poems about The Apocalypse, like the following one:

*******

Apocalyptic

The wind is written.
The sun is set.
The leaf is fallen.
The moon's begotten in the West.

The dead,
The damned,
All lay behind.
Skin and voices,
Scarcely met,
All of life that remains.

All dust is dust,
And blood is dust.

The branches are leafless.
The ocelots are clawless.
Serpents lie,
And worms, with apples, are abundant.

The gravestones cry
O'er empty sockets filled.
The roots are fled.
Bones turned to dust
Are lacking in fertility.

Cities decay
And crumple down,
Bleeding, bleeding,
Empty bled.

Fires burn to ashes;
Ashes fall to dust.

Voices cry,
As they must.
With cities crumpled
On their heads,
Raising the dust.
All is said.

Life is just.
The rose is dead.

Copywrite (c) Spring 1971 James R. Hoye

*******

and several like "And Man Created God", "Perchance To Dream" and "Armageddon" that examine mankind's own involvement in his destruction, (particularly through his religious and other institutions).

Would you consider those to be suitably "Dark".

I'd consider them much darker and more meaningful, then some profanity filled lyrics complaining about life, but that's why such needs to be defined to have any meaning.

JRH

12-12-2007, 07:45 PM

Also, who names themselves TheGreatestWriter? Talk about cocky. You've jumped every writer in history? Move Goethe and Celine aside, out of the way Hemingway and Faulkner, including every other writer imaginable. Rimbaud and Baudlelaire and Camus, move! TheGreatestWriter is coming through.

Mookwac,

I've been writing Poetry for over 48 years, and I've found that using works of mine that can illustrate a point is a valuable tool in getting my point across whether those like you consider it conceited or not. I KNOW the quality of my works and I'm justifiably proud of them, particularly in comparison to that of the 'Modern" Poets that dominate today's Markets.

I may not be the equal of the Poets I respect like Yeats, Frost, Eliot, Tennyson, Byron, Blake, Houseman and Kipling, but at least i can proudly say that I'm endeavoring to walk on in their footsteps.

JRH

P.S. I do find it interesting that the examples you used, with the exception of "Celine" were all either famous and established Prose writers or "Classic" European Poets as opposed to being "Modern" Poets.

I think we are all still confused as to what you mean by "real dark poetry". Typically when I think of dark poetry, I think of My chemical romance conjured up angst. In that case, i think those poems are a bit 2-dimensional, since all darkness means the reader cannot see anything.

Or Do you mean dark themed, dark diction? Every poet's poem has elements of both light and dark. I remember one by Metis about a cello or a viola? that was extremely dark and beautiful. Dclary has written some beautifully sad poems that are dark, but infused with softness and light. Godfathers poems were about light in the dark.

So what exactly, do you mean by dark poetry? I take issue w/ your diction, but not your name

The Greatest Writer,

We're all just trying to help you with what we know to be true: poetry, any poetry that's worth something, cannot be forced. It must be natural. You wait for it to speak to you. You do not try to speak to it. Just to patient and it will come. I promise.

I wouldn't say in the mood for certain types of writing, but I find i write better poetry after I've read good poems, and a few of the poems I wrote were inspired by newspaper articles.

Polenth said:

...though it surprises me that no one else on the poets forum reads stuff to get them in the mood for certain types of writing.

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No one?

I can tell you that's categorically incorrect.

poetinahat said:

No one?

I can tell you that's categorically incorrect.

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This.

I, for one, am inspired and influenced by good poetry I've recently read. Most of my poems stem from reading effective writing. And I know I'm not the only one. A lot of the poets on here will do the same.

We've witnessed here over and over that poetry begets poetry. In this forum alone, I can't tell you the number of works inspired by works, inspired by thread titles, inspired by lyrics.

Why don't we snatch the good pieces of this conversation and move it away from banned op conversation and start it fresh....cuz. I. Like it.


(but I gotta run home and do some stuff so keep talking, give me a few and I'll sort us.)

Polenth said:

I felt like an island of happiness in a sea of people who were naturally in the right mood to write whenever they needed to be.

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Now there's a poem.

I am an island of happiness
seaweeds of sadness
all around me are...

Oh you get the idea

Polenth said:

My comment was based on the responses that came after my suggestion... that you couldn't write something unless you were already ready to write it. That there was no way to put yourself in the right frame of mind to write what you wanted to write.

If that were true, I'd only write sparklie poems about flowers and bunnies, because I'm a happy person. I write sad things by inducing a neutral state (often by reading sad or dark things).

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I don't interpret those posts in the same way as you, I don't think. And, clearly, not everyone works in the same way.

I don't know if you have to *be* sad to *write* sad - I'm sure it's not the same for everyone.

But no one agreed with me, and that's why I commented on it... I felt like an island of happiness in a sea of people who were naturally in the right mood to write whenever they needed to be.

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But that was, say, three posters - not the entire forum population. It was only the "no one else in the poets forum" extrapolation. We all do things differently, but there are certain basics that people suggest, certain things to keep in the toolkit.

poetinahat said:

I don't know if you have to *be* sad to *write* sad - I'm sure it's not the same for everyone.

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I don't think you have to be sad to write sad at all. I write some really sad stuff (I think), but I'm rarely actually sad. when I'm actually unhappy I'm too unhappy to be motivated to write anything. The sad stuff that comes out is a reflection of my mood at the time.

that's a lot of sads and unhappies, I should've switched it up and said morose or lachrymose or blue or something.

Polenth said:

It wasn't what I meant and I've done my best to explain what I meant. So I'm going to back out here, because I don't have the words to explain it better.

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You turned a silly thread into an interesting discussion about inspiration behind writing poetry. Poet was furthering the discussion.

I use whatever I can find to motivate anything from moment to moment. Half the time I feel that I'm dragging stuff out kicking and screaming. But then my brain will kick into gear and the trick is to try to bring the screaming stuff up to the rest. This morning when I woke up I had a poem that I was writing. That's rare. I had to hurry and get it down. When poems come that way for me I always think they're special.