Is publishing really this bleak?

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Mr Flibble

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Sadly, the bigger / better the pub, the more slush they get, the longer they may take to get back. And yes, many of the bigger ones do want exclusivity, though not all insist.

For instance, Baen.
They made an offer on mine straight from the slush, and I had zero connections with Baen.

It took 2.5 years though, which is one of the potential downsides of submitting directly to the publisher.

I've got a requested full out and I've been told not to expect anything back for at least six months, probably more like nine ( non exclusive though). Will I wait? Hell yes, because the house is the dog's testoles



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aadams73

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Writing has to be an obsession, not a means to an end. Writing has to be as much a part of your life as eating and drinking and even breathing. You have to view writing as both your "other" job and your real life.

For example I work at WalMart to mark time and earn enough money to keep a roof over my head and pay my bills.

I write because I can and I'm good at it, but also because it's my life.

WalMart wants my life to be "the Store", but it's not even close. My stories and my writing are my life and nothing else even comes close.

My life is my life.

I love writing, I really do. It gives me a great deal of satisfaction, and, one day, I hope it will bring in some serious money.

But at the end of the day, I'm good at lots of things and I enjoy a great many activities. I can't say writing is my life. It's a part of it, but not the most important part by a long shot.
 

Al Ross

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Even if a publisher accepts unsolicited submission, it might be 1 year later or even longer when you hear back from them (if you do at all). And almost all publishers require exclusive rights for unsolicited submissions. So it means it will take you at least 5 years to submit to 5 publishers.

Sorry but I do not know where you heard this. In all publishers submission info pages, I never saw them asking any exclusivity for unsolicited submissions.

Even if it were to be so, sending unsolicited already is against the set rules writers think they need to uphold, so do you really think if someone is in the mindset of sending his work unsolicited he would adhere to any rule of exclusivity?

Reality is there are no death set rules of submitting your work. One way works for someone and another for someone else.
 

eqb

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Sorry but I do not know where you heard this. In all publishers submission info pages, I never saw them asking any exclusivity for unsolicited submissions.

Handy guideline:

Unless the agent explicitly asks for exclusivity, you can query/submit to more than one at a time.

PUBLISHERS, however, go by just the opposite. Unless they explicitly state they accept sim-subs, they want exclusivity for submissions from authors. (Solicited or not.)

Note: Agents, however, can submit your ms. to more than one publisher at a time.
 

scope

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Handy guideline:

PUBLISHERS, however, go by just the opposite. Unless they explicitly state they accept sim-subs, they want exclusivity for submissions from authors. (Solicited or not.)

As waylander said, where did you see this?

Although not many publishers accept unsolicited manuscripts, of those who do, few in their guidelines demand exclusivity. That's just a fact. Check it out in any guide book.
 

eqb

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As waylander said, where did you see this?

Although not many publishers accept unsolicited manuscripts, of those who do, few in their guidelines demand exclusivity. That's just a fact. Check it out in any guide book.

Point 1) It was Al Ross who asked "where did you see this?" not Waylander.

Point 2) Waylander linked to Penguin's guidelines. In case you missed the relevant text, Penguin states, "We will not consider manuscripts that are currently on submission to another publisher."

Point 3) In case you were not aware of this, many other publishers state the same.

Point 4) Even if they don't explicitly state it, most publishers do not accept sim-subs. If you don't believe me, ask Hapisofi or Jim Macdonald.

Point 5) I'm going by my agent's knowledge and experience. Given a choice between your beliefs and hers? I'm taking hers.
 

midgedear

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I write a whole lot more than I read!

Nonsense.
And that's people I know well enough to call on the phone--it doesn't include Stephen King and Stephenie Meyer and Dan Brown and Jodi Picoult and Nora Roberts and Debbie Macomber and James Patterson and Tom Clancy and Michael Chabon and Laurell K. Hamilton and Charlaine Harris and John Grisham and Janet Evanovich and Nicholas Sparks and Danielle Steel and Jennifer Crusie and Michael Connelly and Linda Lael Miller and Peter Straub and Jackie Collins and Dean Koontz and John Irving and Anne Tyler and Anita Shreve and Jan Karon and Stuart Woods and Patricia Cornwell and Tess Gerritsen and Larry McMurtry and other staples of the best-seller list.

And, if you count those listed you have enough for 2 pro teams! You're numbers were way off, dude! Too funny, Ice Cream! Loved it.

I am in agreement with a lot of what was said here today. If you're not obsessed with writing, if you've come into it to make money, better move on. I personally, would lose my mind if I were told I'd never write again. Maybe I shouldn't say this, but I write a whole lot more than I read!
 

scope

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Point 1) It was Al Ross who asked "where did you see this?" not Waylander.

Right. My mistake.


Point 2) Waylander linked to Penguin's guidelines. In case you missed the relevant text, Penguin states, "We will not consider manuscripts that are currently on submission to another publisher."


Wrong. Penguin USA specifies that although they don't really relish unsolicited queries they accept those which are sent (not all imprints). They make no mention about exclusivity or manuscripts that are currently in submission. They go as far as to recommend that writers work through agents.



Point 3) In case you were not aware of this, many other publishers state the same.


I'm very well aware and quite certain I can say that the great majority of publishers who still accept unsolicited manuscripts don't insist on exclusivity up front.


Point 4) Even if they don't explicitly state it, most publishers do not accept sim-subs. If you don't believe me, ask Hapisofi or Jim Macdonald.


I disagree -- based on personal experience, not belief.



Point 5) I'm going by my agent's knowledge and experience. Given a choice between your beliefs and hers? I'm taking hers.


I'm going on 30 years of experience, an intimate knowledge of the industry, and my agent's knowledge and experience. However, I would be the first to agree that it's more than difficult for a writer to get a book bought going this route
 
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kaitiepaige17

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Just read The Shining. I'm surprised that doesn't happen to all writers. Often, I feel like Jack. That is, I go a little crazy sometimes.
 

Dave Willhoite

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I feel stupid jumping into this discussion, because I am unpublished, and even unsubmitted at this point.

But I have experience from a different field that I believe would apply. Please forgive me if my inexperience causes offense, and please keep the ridicule to a healthy minimum.

I was a road musician for years. Now I am a music teacher. Better paycheck, less heartbreak. I CAN like to talk about creative production and the business of selling that creation.

In music, you have the talent, the talent buyers, and the talent sellers.

The talent is the musician, in my case. They do something because they love it. It can include songwriters, or even the very best sound techs. The operative word is love, in this case. They are also driven by angst, fear, insecurity and desperation. There is a fair amount of lust and need for self actualization involved. Please believe me on this one. Even second rate rock stars get more groupies than almost all writers.

The talent sellers go by a lot of names. Some are "Managers", some are "Booking agents", sometimes it's "the guy in the band that does the business", sometimes it's "Vinnie the Drummer, 'cause his phone is still on." They want to help the talent, but they don't care about the love. They are businessmen. They search for what they believe will sell, and they try to sell it. They want the artist to make as much money as possible, so that they can make a cut. They aren't selling the Talent, they are selling the product.

Talent buyers tend to be guys like record company guys (I had no good experiences with these), bar owners, club owners, and festival coordinators. They are also businessmen. They are passing judgment on the product, not on the artist. They want to pay as little as possible for the product (and to the artist) as possible.

When the buyers reject a project, they are not rejecting the artist, they are rejecting the product.

It isn't personal. Honestly, in almost every case, unless you screw up, they don't care who the heck you are. They don't know you from Adam, and much of the time they don't want to. But they want to sell your product. They want as much money to flow as possible.

Some basic rules.

1) Be professional.

2) Continue to produce the best quality product you can. Constantly improve, and constantly enjoy. Do it because you love to do it.

3) Don't take it personally. You are in this for the love, not for the approval. It sucks when your project isn't as good as you thought it was. Rejection is feedback too.

4) Don't EVER do it for the money, 'cause there ain't no money.

5) Don't quit your day job. Ever. If you have reached a point where "you have to", you can get a leave of absence.

6) If you screw up, or suspect you have screwed up, apologize as soon as you figure out you might have done it.

Ignoring these rules is a bad idea, in my opinion. Like I said, my own experience is limited, as far as writing is concerned.

It's not a bad system. It's just a heartbreaking system if you don't understand it, or approach it from the wrong viewpoint.

I was heartbroke. It soured me to no end. I hope that you don't have the same experience.

Dave
 

incognitopress

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Hey Dave, I wanted to say that I really appreciated your observations. Though I don't personally have experience with the music industry, I've often compared the process that musicians go through with the literary industry, so I enjoyed reading your thoughts on this.
I only wish we had as many groupies as second-rate rock stars, lol :p
 

eventidepress

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Some basic rules.

1) Be professional.

2) Continue to produce the best quality product you can. Constantly improve, and constantly enjoy. Do it because you love to do it.

3) Don't take it personally. You are in this for the love, not for the approval. It sucks when your project isn't as good as you thought it was. Rejection is feedback too.

4) Don't EVER do it for the money, 'cause there ain't no money.

5) Don't quit your day job. Ever. If you have reached a point where "you have to", you can get a leave of absence.

6) If you screw up, or suspect you have screwed up, apologize as soon as you figure out you might have done it.

I was going to try and say smart insightful things, but then Dave said them all!
Honestly, I think that as long as you are calm, patient and professional about the process of breaking into publishing, you won't run into too much trouble. You may never get a book published, but you also won't be written off as a crazy person before your manuscript even has a chance.
The industry is looking for talented writers with good stories to tell, yes. But it is also a business. Just keep that in mind whenever you are interacting with agents/editors/authors/whoever.
 

eventidepress

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That's not trouble?

caw

Well, what I meant was that being calm, patient and professional isn't enough to sell a book -- you also have to have a book that's well-written and engaging. But even if your writing isn't quite there yet (mine wasn't when I submitted it to a few editors last year and I still cringe in embarrassment when I reread it now >.<), as long as you're professional about it, they aren't going to ignore you later on if you come back with a better MS.
To be fair, as long as you don't stalk the editor's publishing house in person or mail them giant flower basket bribes with subtly threatening notes attached, then you're probably being professional anyway...
 

ReallyRong

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Well my most recent piece of coursework actually made an 85%, and my tutor said that the people who mark the markers thought it was pretty good too - so I've finally produced a piece that might be worthy of publication. A few days ago I was one of the neverbeens, let alone the hasbeens and probably will be a neverwas tomorrow, but tonight I'm just so happy to have broken that barrier for a day. Oh - and I've been celebrating a bit too (though I'm guessing that's pretty obvious in this meandering), so apologies are available upon request.
 

AnkleSneeze

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Solomon's advice

(Ecclesiastes 12:9-12) ..And besides the fact that the congregator had become wise, he also taught the people knowledge continually, and he pondered and made a thorough search, that he might arrange many proverbs in order. 10*The congregator sought to find the delightful words and the writing of correct words of truth. 11*The words of the wise ones are like oxgoads, and just like nails driven in are those indulging in collections [of sentences]; they have been given from one shepherd. 12*As regards anything besides these, my son, take a warning: To the making of many books there is no end, and much devotion [to them] is wearisome to the flesh.
 
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