13 Year Old Saudi Girl Sentenced to 90 Lashes For Cell Phone Possession.

AMCrenshaw

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So, yes, William and the prickly person who left the cp point, the war against women remains.

I happen to agree with you. In fact, to my mind, these 90 lashes can only come from such a war. And if not a war, then a continuous, not-oft-understood (that is, irrational) hatred -- a literal hatred -- of those who aren't the prototypical male; I'd call it systemic, heteronormative, but I don't think sytemic captures the scope of the idea.

And, Rugcat, the founding fathers were only considering the Native American and Mexican population in terms of the potential value of the land they lived on. (In fact based on their eventual actions we might say they didn't really believe in unalienable rights for all men, like plenty believe is the case) As they have in every recent military action. No, it's a matter of principle suddenly: whoever has the weapons and the will, also has the right to unalienable rights; no one else.


Now, here's a real good one, since when has the US government waged a war to stop injustice, anywhere?




AMC
 

Celia Cyanide

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by the way, can you point me to equally outraged posts from you in discussions about honor killings, girls having their clits cut off, or burying women up to their necks and stoning them in countries that we aren't allies with?

I'm sure he's probably outraged by that, as well.

We don't post every thought that goes into our heads in this forum, it just seems that way sometimes. :)
 

William Haskins

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I'm sure he's probably outraged by that, as well.

in a moral sense, i have no doubt. i know john's a good guy.

however, i doubt he would have posted a thread had it been "13 Year Old Iranian Girl Sentenced to 90 Lashes For Cell Phone Possession."
 

rugcat

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in a moral sense, i have no doubt. i know john's a good guy.
How little you know me.
however, i doubt he would have posted a thread had it been "13 Year Old Iranian Girl Sentenced to 90 Lashes For Cell Phone Possession."

I'm really not sure why you've focused on this. My post addressed outrage at the fact we treat the Saudis as our close friends, despite their awful practices.

You may feel I should give equal time to outrages committed by our enemies, but that wasn't the point. I rely on you for that.
 

William Haskins

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I rely on you for that.

well-played.

i guess my point is that the primary motivating factor in your post wasn't the horrid treatment of women by islamic fundamentalists, but rather its use as a vehicle for criticizing US foreign policy.

if that's an unfair statement, feel free to correct it.
 

rugcat

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well-played.

i guess my point is that the primary motivating factor in your post wasn't the horrid treatment of women by islamic fundamentalists, but rather its use as a vehicle for criticizing US foreign policy.

if that's an unfair statement, feel free to correct it.
You know, you have a point.

But it really wasn't so much a criticism of foreign policy as it was disgust with how easily we allow self interest to outweigh any and all moral issues, how we can violently condemn behavior of enemies while excusing, or at best show mild disapproval of similar behavior from our "friends."

Technically I guess that's criticism of foreign policy, but to me it's more an emotional revulsion over such hypocrisy.
 

waylander

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My point is very simple.

And I understand political and economic realities. But we do more than tolerate the Saudis, we praise and support them. Maybe it's necessary in the grand world scheme, but it's still disgusting.

And we sell them weapons.
 

Magdalen

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And don't forget,
We
Bow
To Them

obama-bow-to-saudi-king.jpg
 

Slushie

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And hold hands.

bush_holding_hands.jpg
 

Norman D Gutter

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And hold hands.

Shoot, that ain't nothin'. A Saudi man gets off a plane in the Kingdom after being gone on a business trip. He is met by his wife and a host of male friends. He greets his wife without touching her, kisses his male friends, and walks off holding hands with at least one of them, while his wife trails 3 steps behind.

I saw that many times.
 
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LOG

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It's a diplomats job to be a boot-licker. Apparently it's supposed to arouse empathy/pity so that they'll feel more amiable to us... These are the people who feel near-fatal punishment is a great life lesson, I don't expect much.

A patriarchy exists only as long as women allow it to. Bland, blunt, vague, but true in the end I think. Any large social structure acts like a pyramid, it is the people at the bottom who give power to the top, regardless of what type of government is. There is no government without people to govern.
It used to be you could just outrage a country and then have the revolutionaries kill the rulers, swords don't help much against a mob the size of a town. Guns and other weapons that can drop people like flies changed that.

"we need their oil"

Maybe it's really time to switch to nuclear power so we don't need as much (if any???) of "their oil"
Why would we do that? It's so much easier for the Green Party to focus on how we're hurting the earth than how we can hurt each other. That's why new Nuclear Plants aren't allowed, "We can't handle the fuel rods!!!!!!!!!! EEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEK!!!!!!!!! Ban them! Ban them!"

Have you tried to run you car on uranium lately?

caw
I don't think Zoombie was referring to cars, but other power sources. Like coal. You think they would prefer we kill some plants over letting the ozone continue to deteriorate. (Supposedly.)
Besides, why can't we just launch them into space?

These women are the Middle East equivalent of our patriots in my book.
 

William Haskins

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please feel free to recalibrate your outrage relative to your desired political angle:


Rape victim receives 101 lashes for becoming pregnant

A 16-year-old girl who was raped in Bangladesh has been given 101 lashes for conceiving during the assault.

...

The girl was raped by a 20-year-old villager in Brahmanbaria district in April last year.

Bangladesh's Daily Star newspaper reported that she was so ashamed following the attack that she did not lodge a complaint.

Her rape emerged after her pregnancy test and Muslim elders in the village issued a fatwa insisting that the girl be kept in isolation until her family agreed to corporal punishment.

Her rapist was pardoned by the elders.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/wor...eceives-101-lashes-for-becoming-pregnant.html
 

Perks

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How do we fight this in the world? It's horrifying. We can't claim to respect sovereignty and roll in with troops. Economic sanctions seem so coolly removed from outrage at atrocity. What in the hell is a weapon against things that make no sense?

Of course, I know there's no answer. Or more pointedly, every offered answer is going to spawn lists of reasons why it's not the right thing to do.
 

icerose

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How do we fight this in the world? It's horrifying. We can't claim to respect sovereignty and roll in with troops. Economic sanctions seem so coolly removed from outrage at atrocity. What in the hell is a weapon against things that make no sense?

Of course, I know there's no answer. Or more pointedly, every offered answer is going to spawn lists of reasons why it's not the right thing to do.

How about offer a home to any girl who wants to escape this, get them out, then seal up the borders and let these barbarians exist in their own bubble sans the women who want out? Of course this would mean cutting off our oil usage and so forth, but hey, I hear solar power and electric cars and nuclear power plants and oil made from plants and algea is possible.

I'm sure if we actually put our collective minds to it would could pull it off.
 

Perks

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How about offer a home to any girl who wants to escape this, get them out, then seal up the borders and let these barbarians exist in their own bubble sans the women who want out? Of course this would mean cutting off our oil usage and so forth, but hey, I hear solar power and electric cars and nuclear power plants and oil made from plants and algea is possible.

I'm sure if we actually put our collective minds to it would could pull it off.
Actually, that's interesting. I was wondering about establishing something almost like an Underground Railroad, as was done here. The stories were heroic and the heroism fed the sentiment.

I wonder...

(which makes me unable to tell if I'm hopelessly naive)
 

Magdalen

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WTF!! State-sanctioned Misogyny under the guise of Theocratic Righteousness really, really pisses me off. Sorry Perks, I have no answers. Only anger, and that is bad for my blood pressure. Although a quick google search comes up with this: (Not my idea of a good idea . . .)

The device, which Sonette Ehlers, its inventor, has patented, is worn like a tampon but is hollow. In the event of a rape, she said that it would fold around the rapist’s penis and attach itself with microscopic hooks. It is impossible to remove the clamped device without medical intervention.

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/world/article531013.ece
 

Norman D Gutter

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Obviously the 16 year old girl was at fault for:
a) being at a place where the 20 year old could rape her;
b) being so desireable that the 20 year old wanted to rape her;
c) being ashamed enough not to report the rape; and
d) having functioning reproductive organs such that evidence of the rape developed.

This is not Saudi Arabia. This is Bangladesh, generally considered a somewhat moderate Moslem country.

God help us all if this thing ever catches on.
 

icerose

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Actually, that's interesting. I was wondering about establishing something almost like an Underground Railroad, as was done here. The stories were heroic and the heroism fed the sentiment.

I wonder...

(which makes me unable to tell if I'm hopelessly naive)

It's basically what's going to have to happen. The punishments are cultural, hence a full cuture shift is needed. It won't happen because anyone says so. It'll happen over a painfully long period of time at a grass roots level under microscopic advances. Of course that means between now and then lots of girls will be punished and/or murdered, but if they want the change it'll take a lot of effort to do so and it won't be from without it'll be from within, starting at the bottom.