Researching the QLTBAG

Kitty Pryde · Dec 30, 2009

The Beautiful People on IMDB http://www.imdb.com/title/tt1246607/

maxmordon · Jan 1, 2010

I have found this little film called Ben & Arthur at the Bottom 100 of IMDB.Com and even it tries to have a good message of tolerance and acceptance (somewhere... I am pretty sure), it's ruined by, well, look it by yourself, folks.

It works for a Mystery Science Theater 3000-style riffing, though.

Maxinquaye · Jan 1, 2010

Why should it have a "good message"?

There are assholes among us too: powertripping ones, self-destructives, homophobic people. Just look at the poor sods involved in the Exodus programs. They're queer too, but I wouldn't say they have a good message, but if any film, documentary or something were about them I'd say it fits in this list. As long as it was about the issues.

BenPanced · Jan 1, 2010

Maxinquaye said:
Gnnnn.

I only have a minute, but I'll update the list later.

But everyone's (including me) has forgot about Brokeback Mountain.

/me slaps forehead.

I've seen Brokeback Mountain and thought it was a throwback to the films eyeblink references below, standard fare Hollywood throws out to the mainstream when they want to be seen as "groundbreaking" or "edgy". I tried not to expect anything but having seen such movies as The Children's Hour, I had a feeling for the ending and saw it broadcast a mile away. I didn't think it was honest with its characters or the audience.

eyeblink said:
How do we stand with older LGBT-themed films (e.g. The Children's Hour, The Fox, The Sergeant etc), which often come over as heavy-handed and stereotypical nowadays, even though they were clearly intended as sympathetic?

(snipped for brevity's sake)

I think we have to look at them for the historical significance they play, much like many, many of the cartoons released by Warner Brothers and MGM that are now regarded as racist in their portrayal of black, Japanese, and other ethnic characters.

maxmordon · Jan 1, 2010

Maxinquaye said:
Why should it have a "good message"?

There are assholes among us too: powertripping ones, self-destructives, homophobic people. Just look at the poor sods involved in the Exodus programs. They're queer too, but I wouldn't say they have a good message, but if any film, documentary or something were about them I'd say it fits in this list. As long as it was about the issues.

I really don't understand what you're saying here.

When I said, "a good message" I meant that it tries to be the drama of a gay man trying to improve his life and marry with a man he loves. The thing is, that the film is hilariously bad because of wooden acting, awful script if there was any (the protagonist's brother's priest hires a hitman to kill him, WTF?), the direction is amateurish and there's some subtle mysogyny coming from the writer/producer/director/lead actor (the two most important female roles are a psycho ex-wife and the neighbor who hates gay men).

I just thought it may appeal for a laugh, for any fans of hilarious bad movies around. I mean, they are people who're already declaring Sam Mraovich to have overpassed Ed Wood. But I guess this perhaps is not the time and place to comment.

So sorry, for my intrusion

.

Maxinquaye · Jan 1, 2010

maxmordon said:
... and even it tries to have a good message of tolerance and acceptance ...

maxmordon said:
I really don't understand what you're saying here.

The first quote is what I was reacting to really. It stuck out.

maxmordon · Jan 1, 2010

Maxinquaye said:
The first quote is what I was reacting to really. It stuck out.

Gotcha.

C.H. Valentino · Jan 4, 2010

Can we add Boondoock Saints to the list of movies? Detective Smecker (Willim Defoe) is gay. Albeit, his sexuality is a small part of the plot, there are undertones in the behaviors of the other police officers that are very well shown.

Rhoda Nightingale · Jan 15, 2010

I'd like to add But I'm A Cheerleader to the movies list. IMDB linkage

Great skewering of stereotypes, plus it's really funny and sweet.

benbradley · Jan 20, 2010

BenPanced said:
...
I think we have to look at them for the historical significance they play, much like many, many of the cartoons released by Warner Brothers and MGM that are now regarded as racist in their portrayal of black, Japanese, and other ethnic characters.

Speaking of stereotypical characters in cartoons, I've always wondered about Snaglepuss. A little online research indicates the character was partly based on the Cowardly Lion from the movie "The Wizard of Oz," but a cursory look shows substantial differences - Snaglepuss has several stereotypical characteristics of a gay male (there, I said it). When I was a teen (1970's) and remembered seeing Snaglepuss in the cartoons I watched a decade earlier, I wondered how they got away with having such a character in childrens' cartoons.

Kitty Pryde · Jan 20, 2010

benbradley said:
Speaking of stereotypical characters in cartoons, I've always wondered about Snaglepuss. A little online research indicates the character was partly based on the Cowardly Lion from the movie "The Wizard of Oz," but a cursory look shows substantial differences - Snaglepuss has several stereotypical characteristics of a gay male (there, I said it). When I was a teen (1970's) and remembered seeing Snaglepuss in the cartoons I watched a decade earlier, I wondered how they got away with having such a character in childrens' cartoons.

I've often seen Snagglepuss lumped in with other We-All-Know-They're-Really-Gay cartoon characters like Velma from Scooby-Doo and Marcie and Peppermint Patty (really, the crush on Charlie Brown is just a beard). ETA: and Smithers on the Simpsons, although after the early ambiguous seasons they made it much more obvious.

maxmordon · Jan 20, 2010

Kitty Pryde said:
I've often seen Snagglepuss lumped in with other We-All-Know-They're-Really-Gay cartoon characters like Velma from Scooby-Doo and Marcie and Peppermint Patty (really, the crush on Charlie Brown is just a beard). ETA: and Smithers on the Simpsons, although after the early ambiguous seasons they made it much more obvious.

You know like The Flintstones was a tad based on The Honeymooners? Well, Scooby-Doo was a tad based on a show called Dobie Gillis:

Pictured: Fred, Shag..."coughs", I mean, Dobbie, Maynard and Zelda.

Anywho, even one of the writers outright admitted this, from the Wikipedia article on Scooby-Doo:

Mark Evanier, who would write Scooby-Doo teleplays and comic book scripts in the 1970s and 1980s, identified each of the four teenagers with their corresponding Dobie Gillis character: "Fred was based on Dobie, Velma on Zelda, Daphne on Thalia and Shaggy on Maynard."<SUP class=reference id=cite_ref-9>[</SUP>

Perhaps you have heard of the actress who played Zelda, she later became quite succesfull.

Bookewyrme · Jan 20, 2010

Pardon the intrusion, I am just wondering if there's a reason no one has suggested the movie "Rent" yet. Does it not fit the criteria, or is it just no one has thought of it yet?

I thought it was wonderful, and the love story between Tom Collins and Angel was one of the sweetest I've seen of any gender pairing on screen. But....I could be misinterpreting.

Anyway, was just curious!

Rhoda Nightingale · Jan 20, 2010

@Bookewyrme: I loved the love story between Tom Collins and Angel, but personally I wasn't that thrilled by the movie on the whole. It was okay, but I've seen the play as well, and they cut a *lot* of stuff out. Just wasn't the same.

So, since someone said the name "Zelda," albeit in a totally different context, I'm going to fly my geek flag for a moment and give a shout-out to "Legend of Zelda: The Ocarina of Time" and the Sheik character. Which, if you haven't played the game, is actually the princess in drag. And furthermore, depending on which canon you subscribe to, she doesn't just dress up but actually changes gender while in disguise, and appears periodically throughout the game to help Link.

I know this doesn't really fit under any of our established categories, and I know we're looking for more realistic settings here in general, but I wanted to mention it anyway because that was the first time I'd seen or even heard of a gender transformation like that, and it blew my mind. Zelda knocks down a lot of gender barriers on her own--she's an ass-kicking fairy princess who's both pretty and awesome all at once.

/fangirl off

Mara · Jan 21, 2010

The Sheik thing reminded me of "There Will Be Brawl," which is an awesome live-action series based on Super Smash Bros. Brawl. (Combines a silly fighting Nintendo game with Silence of the Lambs, the Godfather, and gritty noir films. It's awesome. Very adult, though, as a warning to any minors.) TWWB is free to watch, btw, and I highly recommend it.

Anyway, a LOT of the Smash Bros. characters in that are LGBT. Other than Pit, none of them are presented as comic relief, their relationships are taken seriously, and several of them are quite heroic. I'm kinda guessing at least one of the writers is LGBT or a strong ally.

Since none of the plot is based on any of the orientations being secret, here's the list.

tag doesn't work.

Captain Falcon is gay. And he's a badass hero. Very positive portrayal, other than some of his treatment of Pit.

Pit (Kid Icarus) is gay, very feminine, and apparently a prostitute. Rather stereotypical, but reasonable considering the genre, his job, and the huge sampling of non-stereotypical LGBT characters. Considering how many characters are sex workers in this, it'd be almost patronizing if none of them were gay.

Samus Aran is bisexual or gay, and is eventually shown romantically holding hands with another female character in a late episode. They parody the way Nintendo has turned her into a stripper with Zero Suit Samus, so it's good that the later relationship isn't just a "bisexual people just like to screw everybody" stereotype.

Marth and Ike are both gay, and are police officers. They don't get a huge amount of screen time, but they have a serious relationship that's given a surprising amount of attention considering they're not central characters.

Zelda is a crossdresser, and perhaps mentally somewhere in the transgender spectrum. Sheik seems to be a different identity almost. She's in the closet; most people don't know she's Sheik, and she's apparently embarrassed about it.

Several of the minor characters are LGBT, IIRC.

doesn't work either.

Bookewyrme · Jan 21, 2010

Rhoda Nightingale said:
@Bookewyrme: I loved the love story between Tom Collins and Angel, but personally I wasn't that thrilled by the movie on the whole. It was okay, but I've seen the play as well, and they cut a *lot* of stuff out. Just wasn't the same.

I adored the movie, but I've never seen the plqy. I just loved the music and the fun they had. Well, and the sweet stories they included, of course.

Nakhlasmoke · Jan 21, 2010

Hedwig and the Angry Inch?

yes, i know it's a musical and camp ridic, but it also asks a lot of questions about gender identity. (I thought)

Plus (I'm on a musical bent here, sorry) Velvet Goldmine. I love how many layers there were to the relationships between people.

eyeblink · Jan 21, 2010

Nakhlasmoke said:
Hedwig and the Angry Inch?

yes, i know it's a musical and camp ridic, but it also asks a lot of questions about gender identity. (I thought)

Plus (I'm on a musical bent here, sorry) Velvet Goldmine. I love how many layers there were to the relationships between people.

Indeed, most films directed by Todd Haynes would qualify.

Hedwig... was directed by John Cameron Mitchell, who went on to make Shortbus, which involves quite a variety of sexual permutations and (unsimulated) activity.

Rhoda Nightingale · Jan 21, 2010

@Mara: A live action Super Smash Bros. Brawl?? THAT IS AWESOME. I personally think of Sheik more as an alter-ego, like her superhero secret identity, rather than her being ashamed about it and hiding that way. As Zelda, she tends to get locked up in towers and dark castles. As Sheik, he can teleport out and do whatever he wants, as long as no one knows that Sheik is also Zelda. Or maybe that's just wishful thinking on my part--I dunno. Either way, Sheik kicks ass. (That might be my Halloween costume next year.)

Back on topic: Has anyone seen Gypsy 83? I ran across it a couple years ago, thought it looked watchable, but never got around to it.

Treyfan · Jan 22, 2010

Kitty Pryde said:
The L Word does a great job of talking about Issues pertinent to lesbians (and trans men), and being really entertaining, but it's really super duper unrealistic. For some slightly more realistic lesbian ensemble cast adventures, I like Exes and Ohs.

Oh yeah! I'll throw the show Big Love out there, for two reasons. One, it's about polygamous characters, and from what I've read, it's well researched. A gay couple created the show, and they have acknowledged the parallels between polygamous folks and gay folks.

Oh yes!!! Big Love....are you watching the new episodes??? I'm wondering where Albie is going to go next...poor guy. Big Love does a tasteful representation of polygamy without being...derogatory. I'm HOOKED on this show! Such a beautiful train wreck...

Back on topic...
I watch documentaries to help me when I write about queer characters. Movies like "Milk" and "Same-Sex America" are must-sees! Takes a hard-boiled approach without muddying up the issues with too much "fluff."

I'll add...

Prayers for Bobby onto the list too. It's an excellent film with Sigourney Weaver.

Researching the QLTBAG

i luv you giant bear statue

Penúltimo

That cheeky buggerer

THE BLUEBERRY QUEEN OF HADES (he/him)

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That cheeky buggerer

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Wording!

Vampire Junkie

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i luv you giant bear statue

Penúltimo

Imagined half of it.

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Clever User Title

Imagined half of it.

yes

Barbara says hi

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Token Black Chick