Can I vent?

I'd put this in the dejection section, but it's not writing related so I figured it doesn't really count. Here's the thing: apparently my Japanese sucks.

I've been studying for seven years, been living in Japan for three and a half, and when I say studying I'm not talking about the occasionally pick up a book kind of studying. I'm talking about until the last couple of months (when I prioritized my novel editing over studying), I studied for a minimum of an hour or two a day. I studied vocab lists, worked through grammar books, made flashcards. I read novels, have taken courses when available, etc. Heck, I've even got kanji games on my DS! All because I got it in my head a few years back that I'd like to translate novels.

So this handy-dandy course comes around this year, a translation and interpretation course. Now, I should mention that while I think I can read pretty well, my speaking and listening is really weak by comparison. I am an incredibly visual person, and I have an incredibly difficult time focusing and learning when it comes to speaking and listening. While I can have conversations, my speaking is very casual and based on conversations I have and how people talk to me--not what I learn in books. I decided to take the course hoping that I'd learn about translation and maybe even get some kind of qualification that could help me get into the business (no idea how that even works, btw).

Well, the books proved to be really useless early on. The practice they offer is accomplished just as easily by reading a newspaper, the grammar points made are all very basic compared to the level we're supposed to be at, and there is no practice of the grammar points, etc. that they make. It's just not a very well constructed book, and the texts I was using to study independently were a lot better.

So that's the background, I suppose. Anyway, this week I had to travel (and miss going on my school trip for the first and only time) to a big week-long seminar out of town. I thought okay, maybe this seminar will have the things I want to learn about.

Boy was I wrong. First off, there was not a single thing about translation whatsoever. The entire seminar was interpretation. All of it. So that's a bit frustrating, but the soul crushing part is this: have I mentioned how much I suck at speaking and listening?

And apparently I suck a lot more than I thought I did. I was by far the worst in the class. The teacher even got to me and would say things like, "Oh, let's give you an easy one." There were entire segments I just didn't understand at all despite putting every ounce of effort I could into it. It was all business and super polite Japanese that I don't speak at all. Even the non-native English speakers were outdoing me! And the guy who'd been studying for a whole two years.

It was depressing. No, more than depressing. Embarrassing, discouraging as hell, and I spent every evening wanting to go back to my room and just cry because I hate sucking that much. I'm used to being the best in the class, not the worst. And do you know how it feels to have something staring me in the face saying, "All that work you've done over the past seven years was completely worthless." I dreaded going to the classes. I hated having to say in front of everyone, "I don't know because I didn't understand anything you just said." I hated being the only person who couldn't do it.

I've always depended on my reading skills to pull me up, and even my listening isn't that bad. I understood almost everything the teacher said, but it was the tapes we had to actually translate I couldn't do at all. My brain just doesn't work that way. I can't just switch back and forth in my head. I have a really hard time understanding words that I would know perfectly well if I saw it written and could see the kanji.

Ugh, it just was awful. The whole week was awful. And now I feel like I'm just not good enough, and I never, ever, ever want to do anything like that again. I'm not even sure if even my reading is good enough anymore. I thought I was good. I really did. I thought being able to pick up a novel and actually understood it meant something. But after seeing everyone else there this week, and seeing how amazingly better than me every single one of them is, what chance would I ever have? I wouldn't give me work, either.

I really, really hate sucking.

Part of what's so frustrating is that in every day life I do okay. I can carry on conversations without problems for the most part, and have even been told I speak really naturally, and have had quite a few people who knew me when I first came who tell me in amazement how much my Japanese has improved and what not. I've got pretty decent pronunciation as well. But it seems like none of that mattered at this seminar. Sure, I had no problem talking to the Chinese guy outside of class and we understood each other fine, or asking questions to the office people, or getting advice on my broken toenail while I was there. In normal life I'm fine. And even novels and what not I'm fine and rarely have to really stop and pull out a dictionary. But despite that, I still bombed royally. That's kind of what makes it so upsetting, I think. I thought I was doing well, and then to do something like this and be the absolute worst person there and not be able to do it at all? After all the hard work? Very not easy.

Thump said:

I think the problem comes from the fact that most of your learning is in the form of written words: vocabs, books, novels etc. You're just not as used to hearing japanese as you are to seeing/reading it. By now you probably have the vocabulary and grammar in you but just need to connect that with the sounds as well.

I would suggest you download some Japanese TV shows, preferably with subtitles to help you along in a pleasant and relaxed way. Eventually, you won't need the subtitles but at first they might help you link word and sound.

I really enjoy some Japanese TV series like Hana Yori Dango, Hanazakari no kimitachi e, Summer Snow, My Boss my Hero... You can download them in torrent from serveral sub sites like SARS Fansubs.

EDIT after your post : There's a difference of context as well. When you're talking to a person face to face, they naturally change the way they speak verbally and physically as they perceive how they might best communicate with you. I think listening and translating something not directed at you might be helpful. Sure can't hurt either

Click to expand...

Yeah, I live here so I'm exposed to it all the time. I watch the news in Japanese, I watch some anime in Japanese if someone recommends it (I'm more a fan of "boy" shows btw lol), but yeah, the context and everything is the big problem. I don't speak super polite Japanese at all. I can generally understand it...sorta...in very limited doses. No one around me uses it except at school, and that's generally just basic stuff in the meetings. Certainly no one talks to me that way. I also have no confidence in how to do it. I seriously can't even tell you how to construct the verbs, much less use all of the really hard vocab you have to use. And I've never done it precisely because if you screw it up you screw up bad. The whole thing is based on humble and honorific verb forms...the ones referring to you or anything related to you have to be humble, the other person is honored. If you mess that up or get it backwards you're talking about being insanely rude. Hence, as I don't get it and don't know when to use it with confidence, I just don't. And the business stuff...well, I certainly never use that.

Thing is, I kind of figured the same would be true of everyone. I couldn't believe how much everyone uses it, and they spoke like perfect textbook Japanese. Mine is so the complete antithesis of that. Ugh. At least it's over. I'm so unmotivated to even finish the rest of the tests for the course. I've been told for the most part they'll pass anyone (though I do think you have to score above a certain level for the tests and turn them in on time), so I'll probably still be okay since my test scores have been tolerable, but I'm at this point where I kind of want to say clearly I'm not good enough for this and throw them aside. I probably won't, but it's tempting.

Silver King said:

You did mean to say "Japanese," right?

I'm thinking the course you took was simply beyond your means at this point. You're obviously familiar enough with the language to get by on most occasions, only not enough when it's broken down to its most rudimentary elements. But guess what? A great number of English speaking folks couldn't tell the difference between a noun and a verb in their own chosen tongue; so you're way ahead of the game, and I hope you continue your studies to the "bitter" end, which is closer than you think.

Click to expand...

Actually I meant Chinese lol. I forgot to mention we had a lot of Chinese and Korean guys there as well who didn't speak any English, so we talked in Japanese.

The stupid thing is the textbooks are too easy and the tests are pretty easy as well, even the listening and translating parts, mostly because I can pause and think, or listen again if I have to. The seminar part was DEFINITELY beyond my level, though.

backslashbaby said:

Ah! I see you're talking about a breakdown I didn't catch. If the parts that are getting you are the parts you don't have much immersion in, that makes total sense, too. Buy tapes, join a club that practices the polite form, etc. Yep, you just need to hear it more done that way somehow, I bet. Good Luck

Click to expand...

Honestly...I just don't care. I've never cared about interpretation. I've always known that it's something very difficult for me and that it would be nearly impossible to do. My interest is in the written language and beyond being able to converse with people in everyday life, I have no intention of doing anything with interpretation in the future. Maybe one day I'll look back on that and regret it, but just...yeah.

I'm feeling better about it now, mostly because I've had a few other things happen that turned out well, and that made me feel a bit better. I even got up this morning and took my latest test for the class, even though I hadn't been wanting to (and of course realized as soon as I sent it that I left off a word on one of the translation bits lol). I actually think when I get my round of edits done (which is why I've been studying less) I'm going to go back to studying on my own the way I was before. I also got a book that was highly recommended as a good vocabulary builder, so I'm going to start working through that as well. Then I'm going to just say screw this course and do only what's required, and focus again on taking the Level 1 JLPT test this summer. I probably won't pass (it's RIDICULOUSLY hard), but if I can improve say 10 points from the last time I took it, that'd be good enough for me.

I studied second language acquisition in grad school, and I kind of know about that, but I also know how my brain works and I'm just not meant to be a listener, I think. It's not even so much the concept of learning to speak it perfectly. That I could probably do, it's the having to listen and understand and hold that in my brain, then translate it (I generally just think in Japanese, I don't translate in my head) and say something all without writing it down. I lose so much of it before I get that far. I also don't code switch well, which is a huge problem for this sort of thing. I even have a hard time speaking in English if I'm talking to people in Japanese first.

I'm not really giving up in general, I just don't want to do anything with interpretation. I still intend to study, I still intend to improve my speaking on an every day level, I just have even less desire now (okay more of an outright dread) of having to ever do any kind of formal interpretation. What I've always wanted to do is be good enough to translate novels, and I don't really need to be able to interpret to do that. Most of the interpretation jobs out there are through businesses and such, and I really don't want that kind of job in general. I might regret it because the chances of finding translation work are so slim, but I'd need years more to even come close enough to find work in interpreting.

So yeah, I'm not really giving up in general just on this awful course. I was learning more from my independent study, and if I go back to that and just worry about the tests for this thing to get my certificate I'll be more prepared for the exam I have ot take anyway. At least I don't think of that as giving up.