Mass Effect 2

efkelley said:

I do agree that 'RPG' has been thrown onto titles that barely deserved the moniker. Hell I think they even called 'Splinter Cell' that. I'm still not seeing what makes the Mass Effect stuff NOT an RPG. What games would you call legitimate RPGs and how do they differ from other BioWare titles?

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Let me put it this way. Play Baldur's gate. Play Morrowind. Play Gears of War. Which of these three plays most like Mass Effect 2?
I'd say that's pretty clearly Gears of War. (Seriously, even the default button configuration is the same)

What have traditionally been the RPGs on computers (with slight differences on consoles) are games which allow highly customizable charaters, including character attributes as well as equipment. Also always included has been some kind of combat reward/loot system. While all RPGs might also have a storyline, that's irrelevant, because all games have story (yes, even Doom 2) some are just better than others.
Now, Mass Effect 1, i'd call a good hybrid between shooter and RPG, something that deserves to be called an RPG, or maybe RPG light. Mass Effect 2 on the other hand has the RPG elements dialled all the way down. It's less RPG-like than Deus Ex was. Anyway, games like that were usually called action adventures. (No, not all action adventures have puzzles)
Or to give a different example, would call God of War an RPG? It has RPG elements which are about as prominent as those in ME2, and yet, it sold perfectly fine being (honestly) called an action game.

Zoombie said:

RPG means role playing game. Technically, all games are roleplaying games.

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Technically correct use of vocabulary is something that's just not going to happen in common use. Technically, even so called non-linear games are linear (The only really non-linear games i know are Wizardry 8 and Morrowind), the plot still railroads you along. Technically, open-world games aren't open at all, more like sandboxed. Etc. But if a term has been established to mean something for more than decade, imo one should stick with it.

An FPS has you playing the role of the titular character.

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Don't forget: from ego perspective. ME is a third person shooter, not a FPS.

<shrugs> I thought Gears of War was fun but wished it had better plot and characterization.

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Good thing Mass Effect 1 and 2 came out.

Gears of War had a plot?

No I wouldn't call God Of War an RPG for the same reason Splinter Cell and Batman aren't really an RPGs. One character, linear mission chain, etc...

But, because ME1 and 2 have the same button config as Gears doesn't drop it from the RPG pool in my mind. Sure, I'm still playing just one character, ala God of War. But Shepard can be male or female, paragon or renegade, and one of a half dozen classes. How I interact with NPCs is my decision. Sometimes my decision results in a fight. Sometimes it doesn't. I can push it that way if I want, or not. My party makeup is my decision. Their skills are up to me. They took the gearing out of my decision-making process in large part, but to my mind that just did away with a lot of the minutiae. That said, I do wish I'd been able to customize the party's appearance the way I could my own. Still, that wasn't too huge.

Now, is it a question of sandboxing? To my ind the biggest difference between Baldur's and Mass Effect is that I'm on a more linear path in ME. But in Baldur's I still progress by fighting the other children of Bhaal (it was Bhaal right?). It's still going to result in the same endgame. Same with Fallout 3, though I daresay I had LOTS more things to occupy my time in Fallout that had nothing to do with the main plot.

Is it a question of time spent? Fallout 3 will let you finish in something like 6 hours whereas Dragon Age makes you do almost every last thing taking a good 20 IF you take no side trips and avoid all unnecessary dialog. I honestly don't remember how long Baldur's took. I want to say 10-ish if you avoid side trips.

I do agree that the line between RPG and Shooter is becoming more muddled, though I'm not sure that's a bad thing. Fallout 3 felt very Elder Scrolls to me. Lots to explore, lots to do, follow the main plot at your peril, etc...

What I'm really looking forward to seeing is what happens with the new Star Wars MMO. BioWare is saying that they want to add Story as a fourth pillar to the MMO experience. That's an INSANE amount of work, but if they pull it off, they could have a Warcraft-killer on their hands.

Good luck! My male Tali-romancing sentinel on Veteran was decent fun, but my female Garrus-romancing vanguard on Insanity was where things got awesome. (Speaking purely from difficulty perspective. Like both voice actors.)

Also, ME2 appears to be cleaning up on awards -- regularly gets Writing, RPG, and 360 and sometimes taking GOTY as well. Surprising for a game that came out in January, but no complaints.

Ooh, nice. They need to hurry up and release this. I need a reason to justify my 8th or 9th playthrough.