PA: A SHOT in the dark

overfiend · Nov 12, 2009

Well been a long time away from AW forum but got some free time now. My PA saga continue. Recap: Had a book published with them in 2007 with grave grammatical errors. Well after writing ** number of letter to them, i go no answer. This year i registered a letter and sent .I just thought enough is enough because i was not going to wait till 2014 to get released. Well The letter made an effect. I got a call but they said to read my email. funny

Anyway, the email said that thy had answered me a lot of times but it was my fault for not answering(hahaha..very original)Actually i got no mails from them since I started to threat for a termination of contract. So now they asked if this address was still in use by me. I replied yes and waited for the next email entitled....(my name) has spent this amount from PA and he wants more.

The whole letter was about how much it came up to for them to edit(yeah right) print the cover , format and then put it on their site not to mention having it available on Amazon ingram etc. This amounted to 1000 something by their account and if i wanted a contract termination, of which it was my fault since i had the chance to proof read my material 3 times before sending it, PA was not liable for any published material it print. AWWW..this is God. If only i knew Osama Bin Laden address i would tell him he could post his manuscript with PA" How to become a Terrorist" and expect no fears from a publisher.

Anyway, the deal for termination was for me to buy 50 books at full price which amounted some 600 $.
I replied why would i want to buy 50 copies of a flawed book which they didn't even edit
They said either this or see you in 2014
I went "What if i don't want the books?"
Ok how about this: you send us a cheque for 300 $ and when we get it , then we will release you.
Well i said i would contact them about this but the thought that came to my mind was: i was not going to give any thief 300$ for all the misery he had caused me. So now for the moment i am content with the idea of waiting till 2014..oh yeah and i am re writing that manuscript because i got a publisher who is interested.

No it is not entirely legal but if the story differs with different names and writing style, etc, i figure PA has got no case to sue me. In any case, i am doing all so that this story doesn't resemble the one published by PA in anyway.

Cyia · Nov 12, 2009

overfiend,

What publisher? Besides the ethics issues of reselling a book already under contract (legal and binding contract, btw) to another publisher, and the fact that you just admitted to knowing it's not legal on a public forum, you need to really check these people out.

Don't take this harsher than it's intended, but given the post you just made, no legit publisher would take a look at a MS you pitched. The number of errors is far too high and consistent for them to believe the same errors aren't present in the book itself.

You're jumping a step (several, actually).

Assume you have a new book to sell.

1st you EDIT it until you feel like you've drawn blood so there are no errors.
THEN get a beta-reader to tell you what errors you missed.
THEN edit again.
THEN look for an AGENT.

Few legit commercial publishers will deal directly with the author; they want to talk to agents. (Some smaller presses will, but you're still usually better off with someone who actually knows the business looking out for your interests.)

Don't run over yourself and do yourself more harm because you're reacting to a bad situation. Consider the PA book dead. Writer another one and do it right. Do your research, get outside input. Make a list of appropriate agents from QueryTracker or AgnetQuery and check them against Preditors & Editors, or here at Bewares and Background Checks.

Even if you have managed to entice a legit press with your letter, all you're doing is setting yourself - and that publisher - up for legal troubles. And that's a career killer.

wanda45451964 · Nov 12, 2009

I wouldn't do that if I were you, The book with pa is dead in the water, No one will take it no matter if you re write it, Besides I would say that it sort of has bad karma on it after any part of it has been with Pa, why curse a new book before you even write it by just by changing names, after its under contract any way. Ditch it , Burn it , whatever I wouldnt let it worry me any more. Forget about them. Come up with something new and better and give that to a new publisher. That's what I am doing. Research and more research and reading and writing. Forget pa, sit back and collect little checks like all of us do until 2014, like I have to wait too. Don"t waste your imagination on Pa. trying to get back at them. They will only ruin you in the end. Bring harm to you and your new publisher if you go ahead with this lame idea, that will get you sued. I promise you they have a loop hole to cover that also. They are a scam. Thats all theya re. Please listen to us, when we tell you that Pa will sue you, and to forget about them.

overfiend · Nov 12, 2009

Sorry no cheques from them.now they send me e-cheques for the amount 0.00.They say they are thinking more of the trees now..looks like they want to save 50 cents on a stamp.

Thanks for the advice people.have read you concerns but you would not give on your baby without a fight right? That book PA took from me is how i feel about it. The new publisher i am dealing with has read a changed text(synopsis) which is about 10 % similar to the original one.
For editing, i am going to the pros now before submission. About the whole Manuscript: this one will be beefed up by far so in the end is should be 2 times longer than the one PA holds.

Not afraid of PA.Story might sound same if ever they do pick my first book but the odds of that happening is near impossible.My book with PA is dead.I am doing nothing to promote and have been on their scam since day one so no friends or family got a copy anyway.No one else got a copy.

As the say before you submit an idea or a synopsis in the business, there is no guarantee that no other person who may have not done the same thing or come up with the same, so your idea might be not that original. This one will find the light under a pen name anyway.Unless it becomes a super best seller( i doubt that very much) no one should give a damn to go look or think..hey isn't this book and that one the same.

Anyway...no harm done yet....have signed nothing and this is still under consideration by new publisher

tlblack · Nov 12, 2009

Overfriend, whether or not you abide by your contract is your concern, and possibly a career buster, however, please make certain that you check out the publisher you claim wants the book after it's rewritten. PA isn't the only scam in the literary world.

Cyia · Nov 12, 2009

overfiend said:
Anyway...no harm done yet....have signed nothing and this is still under consideration by new publisher

This is SERIOUS cause for concern, overfiend. Legit publishers DO NOT work with "under construction" novels from new authors. They just don't. You have to have a finished product for them to look at before they'll say yes or no. If they're greenlighting a work in progress (and yours is in progress from the way it sounds) RUN AWAY. That's how vanity presses work - NOT commercial ones. (as in ones that will give you money for your book).

If this "editor" you're talking about was suggested by the publisher as a "service", RUN FASTER.

Again, what's this publisher's name?

mscelina · Nov 12, 2009

I can be no blunter about this than I am about to be.

You cannot rename your characters and submit basically the same book to a different publisher. You have given away your first rights to PA. As far as that book goes, it no longer exists. Unless PA returns your rights to you--and they won't--that book, characters, storyline and plot have already been published by Publish America. There are independent publishers who will re-release a previously published novel AFTER the rights revert to you. What you are talking about doing is basically fraud and any legitimate publisher will not take kindly to being defrauded by an author. You will ruin any potential for publication by a legitimate press if you persist in trying to sell a manuscript that has already been sold.

BenPanced · Nov 12, 2009

Overfiend:

PA trolls the AW boards. Don't EVEN think about it.

tlblack · Nov 12, 2009

Regardless that your PA book won't have big sales and that it will never be in a bookstore or easily findable online, you still signed a valid contract. No one here is telling you these things to keep you from rewriting the book, but you must be out of contract with PA before you can legally seek a reprint of that work. Your first print rights are gone forever.

Jamesaritchie · Nov 12, 2009

Just write a new novel. That's what writers do. Make this one error free. You're the writer, which means you should know grammar and punctuation. You're the writer, which means it's your book, and your responsibility to eliminate typos, and any other mistakes. If you do not, you have no one to blame but yourself.

But forget this book and write another. If you can't come up with an idea for a second book, and if you can't write the second book in a reasonable amount of time, you have much bigger worries than PA.

James D. Macdonald · Nov 12, 2009

It's easier to write a whole new novel than it is to change an existing novel sufficiently to make it a new work.

Tell PA: "See you in 2014; be advised that I do not want the contract to be renewed." Then forget them. If you still like your book in 2015, see about re-writing and re-selling it then.

For right now: Write a new, different, better book. Do the same next year. And the year after that.

You should be five books down the road by the time PA reverts your rights. This is a good thing.

Do not attempt to change the current work and resell it to another publisher. If you lose your mind and decide to do it anyway, make sure you have competent legal advice before you submit it anywhere. And make full disclosure to the new publisher. If they're legitimate they don't want any surprises.

Jersey Chick · Nov 12, 2009

Why go through all the trouble of changing everything when you can write a new novel instead? Really, it's dishonest at best, since you're essentially trying to sell the same book twice - at worst, PA could possibly make trouble for you, or you could make it for yourself if the truth comes out.

Forget this book - write a new one. It's that simple.

merrihiatt · Nov 12, 2009

You are receiving wise counsel, overfiend. I hope you are able to receive it. We all wish you the very best.

wanda45451964 · Nov 12, 2009

I hope that he listens to us because if he doesn't he is going to have bad karma from now on, on any book that he writes. I thought I was stubborn, but not like this. I still have no idea what a e check is and if I am thinking this is right its like direct deposit. He really should forget about them. I have the feeling that he might be paying someone to do this for him. maybe some of you should kick in about 5 different other scam publishers, so he will drop this idea. Let's see here are a few, Strategic publishing, Tate, Dorrance, author house, Xilbris, and trafford. iUnverse. All of these charge you from 300.00 and up to 4,000, or more. If one of these is your new publsiher. FORGET IT and Run. You will be out of pocket money. Concentrating on a new different novel and doing research on something that will make a difference in people's life,like I am doing, is time well spent. screwing with Pa is wasting time. You will Gain nothing but a lawsuit. After one of those clowns come on here and see what you intend to do. Please dont think that all of us here that's still stuck in our contracts are not mad as hell cause we are. But, we have already said that's it with our book with them and moved on. You will have to do this or you will never be able to write again unless you let it go, and be done with it. You have to treat Pa like a bad relationship. You wouldn't won't to be with anyone that didn't love and support you and believe in you and your writing would you? hope not, so why do you need Pa. They are all of that. They are like a gold digging woman/or man that just wants your hard earned money and leave you with empty pockets and broken dreams. This is what Pa is. I hope others can convince you of this also. Hope you come back and see this. Best thing you can do to get back at them, is take all that anger and everything you are feeling and put that into a new and different novel. Maybe that was the wrong way to describe Pa but oh well, if that keeps him from going further with this bad karma deal then I am all for it.

wanda45451964 · Nov 12, 2009

Over fiend, It took Nicholas Sparks and others along time to get to where they are now. They didnt do it with their first novel. None of us are going to here either. But if you ever want to have your name or book next to a real author it will take time to do it. it might take you 5 years or more. but I have always thought of as writing as a hobby and what I enjoy doing. Not so much as earning a living at it, at least not right away. If it happens it does and if it doesnt I still enjoy it. I think that's what we are all telling you. Don't rush into any thing.

Gillhoughly · Nov 12, 2009

overfiend, it sounds like you ran afoul of Miranda having one of her I-will-screw-over-a-writer-until-it-stops-being-fun moods. The total lack of professionalism and petty game-playing are her stock in trade.

I suggest--if you want to make another effort to get the book released from contract--drafting a simple business letter, stating that you are unable to to promote the book and will not purchase additional copies. Don't get detailed about past history, avoid emotion, just stick to a simple severing of a business deal that is not working out for either party. Stick to the one and only topic. Act like the previous exchange never happened.

Address it to Larry Clopper and send it certified to their offices, not the PO box. I'm sure someone here can tell you which of these is where they're camping since the move:

111 E Church St
Frederick, MD 21701-5403
(301) 695-1707

26 Water St
Frederick, MD 21701-5620
(301) 624-4050

20 S Wisner St # 110
Frederick, MD 21701-5970 (Looks like a warehouse on Google maps)

230 E. Patrick St.
Frederick, MD 21701
(301) 695-2778 (Looks like a warehouse on Google maps)

You may have to send several letters, but you're going to have to go over Miranda's head. She's not firing on all thrusters. Some days she lets contracts go without a peep, others she fights tooth and nail as though the fate of the free world hangs in the balance.

I agree with the others. However much you've changed it, legally you cannot sell a book under contract to another party until it is released. It's like trying to sell a car that's under lein. The new owner can't take the title until you clear it.

I also agree that you should write another book while you're waiting for this one to clear. Writers always have more than one book in their head!

Please let us know how this goes. I hope it all works out for you.

LexiCan · Nov 13, 2009

I hope that he listens to us because if he doesn't he is going to have bad karma from now on, on any book that he writes. I thought I was stubborn, but not like this. I still have no idea what a e check is and if I am thinking this is right its like direct deposit. He really should forget about them. I have the feeling that he might be paying someone to do this for him. maybe some of you should kick in about 5 different other scam publishers, so he will drop this idea. Let's see here are a few, Strategic publishing, Tate, Dorrance, author house, Xilbris, and trafford. iUnverse. All of these charge you from 300.00 and up to 4,000, or more. If one of these is your new publsiher. FORGET IT and Run. You will be out of pocket money. Concentrating on a new different novel and doing research on something that will make a difference in people's life,like I am doing, is time well spent. screwing with Pa is wasting time. You will Gain nothing but a lawsuit. After one of those clowns come on here and see what you intend to do. Please dont think that all of us here that's still stuck in our contracts are not mad as hell cause we are. But, we have already said that's it with our book with them and moved on. You will have to do this or you will never be able to write again unless you let it go, and be done with it. You have to treat Pa like a bad relationship. You wouldn't won't to be with anyone that didn't love and support you and believe in you and your writing would you? hope not, so why do you need Pa. They are all of that. They are like a gold digging woman/or man that just wants your hard earned money and leave you with empty pockets and broken dreams. This is what Pa is. I hope others can convince you of this also. Hope you come back and see this. Best thing you can do to get back at them, is take all that anger and everything you are feeling and put that into a new and different novel. Maybe that was the wrong way to describe Pa but oh well, if that keeps him from going further with this bad karma deal then I am all for it.

Wanda, perhaps you should refrain from stating rambling opinion as fact. No one is qualified to judge anyone's karma, for one thing. I am sure that Overfiend is capable of making an informed decision. He has been offered some sage advice and, ultimately, may choose his own path.
And, again, it would behoove you to take greater care in the construction of your posts.

BenPanced · Nov 13, 2009

I've said it before and I'll say it again: PA trolls the AW message boards. Anything you say can and will be used against you again and again and again.

AC Crispin · Nov 13, 2009

Just on a cursory reading, it sounds to me as though Overfiend has been dealing with Strategic Book Publishing. From the hints he gave, this sounds just like their "publishing" process. They wouldn't give a hoot in hell about PA having extant first publishing rights to this book.

Overfiend, if I'm right, and it's Strategic you've been in contact with, going with them will be jumping from the frying pan into the fire. In other words, a huge mistake.

Overfiend, if you are still reading here, Strategic Book Publishing, or Eloquent Book Publishing are NOT "real" publishers, even though they claim to operate out of New York City. That address they use is just a mail drop.

I hope you see this message and pay attention.

-Ann C. Crispin
Chair, Writer Beware
www.writerbeware.com

Bartholomew · Nov 13, 2009

Is this the same company, AC Crispin?

http://strategicbookpublishing.com/

James D. Macdonald · Nov 13, 2009

Yeah, Bartholomew. It's the same company. For more on them, see this: http://www.myfloridalegal.com/newsrel.nsf/newsreleases/0CA04161DA4BE29C8525762600550D21

Bartholomew · Nov 16, 2009

James D. Macdonald said:
Yeah, Bartholomew. It's the same company. For more on them, see this: http://www.myfloridalegal.com/newsrel.nsf/newsreleases/0CA04161DA4BE29C8525762600550D21

Link doesn't work.

What's with author mills using the phrase "Traditional publisher?"

JulieB · Nov 16, 2009

Bartholomew said:
Link doesn't work.

The link works for me. Perhaps the site was down or you might need to clear your cache.

AC Crispin · Nov 16, 2009

Bartholomew, please go to Writer Beware and read what we have posted about Strategic Book Publishing, and all of Robert Fletcher's other companies, including their editing services and literary agencies.

Writer Beware has been tracking Robert Fletcher and his companies for years now. We have received thousands of complaints about these companies from writers who tell us they have been lied to and defrauded. (When I say "thousands" that is not an exaggeration.) We have documentation to support everything I've said.

I KNOW the Writer Beware link works.

www.writerbeware.com

-Ann C. Crispin
Chair, Writer Beware
www.writerbeware.com

lateran_xiii · Nov 16, 2009

Just some info regarding two of these addresses, since they're right in my neighborhood.

111 E Church St
Frederick, MD 21701-5403
(301) 695-1707

This building is now completely empty. It had all the shutters open and a large "for lease" banner on it when I happened to walk by last night on my evening constitutional. The PA sign is gone, too.

230 E. Patrick St.
Frederick, MD 21701
(301) 695-2778 (Looks like a warehouse on Google maps)

This is the old location, actually a cute little townhouse. They sold it in late 2004 and it's now a shop. The warehouse-looking building is the post office across the street.

I'm not sure if the Water St. or Wisner St. address is their new location, but they are no longer at Patrick or Church. I think it's Wisner, but there's probably someone around here who knows for sure which one is their new offices.

Hope that's helpful for anyone wanting to contact them directly.

PA: A SHOT in the dark

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