The Newer Never-Ending PublishAmerica / America Star Books Thread

AlexPiper said:

Is there really any way to make PA's approach work? From other threads, I get the impression even the people who do a lot of marketing and get books sold don't get anything back. The books don't ship on time, PA claims no sales on a royalty statement, etc.

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Assuming everything works as it should, the author would have to market to an audience that doesn't mind the price. Technical non-fic often sells for well over $100 per copy new (look for books in the American Chemical Society Symposium Series), although in my experience most of these books are purchased by libraries or on expense accounts, and PA non-fiction is not likely to be of a technical nature. These books aren't high-volume movers, either, so getting rich would have to not be the motive of the author (or editor if it's like the ACS books). But, in theory, it could be done. I'm sure PA would print such a book if presented with one.

Chris P said:

I've said many times, if someone can make PA's approach work for them, then go to it.

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But they won't. PA gets in their way every step of the way. Even if all you want is a place to format your books, which you intend to buy and resell yourself, they still make it exceptionally difficult if not impossible to do anything. Prices are too high. Shipping costs are outrageous. Covers look bad more often than not. Interior formatting is spotty at best. They don't care about getting the product out to their customers within a reasonable time frame. None of that makes PA a good idea, and that's even with ignoring their pretense of being a commercial publisher.

AlexPiper said:

Is there really any way to make PA's approach work? From other threads, I get the impression even the people who do a lot of marketing and get books sold don't get anything back. The books don't ship on time, PA claims no sales on a royalty statement, etc.

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Depends on what one means by "make work". I know ResearchGuy has often mentioned acquaintances who are perfectly happy with the results they get from PA - however limited they may be. People who just want to know that the book is available to the handful who may want to buy it, and who don't have the skill or help needed to use Lulu, for instance, may find that PA works for them (if they don't run afoul of the verbal abuse a.s.o)

I think, however, that it is safe to say that there is no way to make PA work for you in the sense of selling thousands of books to people you don't know. Publish America has none of the skill, connections, knowledge or even willingness needed to allow a book to do even slightly well by commercial standards.

PA Author said:

Perhaps a year from now I will have a different opinion, but as for now, the challenge is stoutly up my craw to prove you wrong, Lisa dear.

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Or you could listen to all the people who've come before you, like this writer who came here determined to prove us wrong, just like you. Here is her first post. Here is her last. Three months. It took her three months to realize she'd been scammed.

DeadlyAccurate said:

But they won't. PA gets in their way every step of the way. Even if all you want is a place to format your books, which you intend to buy and resell yourself, they still make it exceptionally difficult if not impossible to do anything. Prices are too high. Shipping costs are outrageous. Covers look bad more often than not. Interior formatting is spotty at best. They don't care about getting the product out to their customers within a reasonable time frame. None of that makes PA a good idea, and that's even with ignoring their pretense of being a commercial publisher.

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I never said I would use PA again, under any circumstances, but I won't stand in the way of someone who finds a way to make it work. I can't tell someone they're not happy. PA didn't work for me and I assume it's not working for all but a small handful of writers.

My point was that POD can work in certain circumstances, all of which the average fiction, spiritual, and memoir writer (at whom PA targets its efforts) is not likely to find himself in. And if the author could benefit from POD, there are other outfits that will produce a cheaper book. That was my point to Lisa's post above.

Chris P said:

I can't tell someone they're not happy.

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I just wanted to quote this for truth, and not just in the context of this thread.

"Good luck moving the world with your negative attitude, and have a nice day."

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The author is a honeymooner. Good luck making even moderate sales with PA.

DeadlyAccurate said:

But they won't. PA gets in their way every step of the way. Even if all you want is a place to format your books, which you intend to buy and resell yourself, they still make it exceptionally difficult if not impossible to do anything. Prices are too high. Shipping costs are outrageous. Covers look bad more often than not. Interior formatting is spotty at best. They don't care about getting the product out to their customers within a reasonable time frame. None of that makes PA a good idea, and that's even with ignoring their pretense of being a commercial publisher.

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Are PA still introducing errors with spell-check, or did they quit doing that when they decided to go with the no-edit option?

Ok I know this is something we all have talked about but I still after over a year and half being with the dreaded scam artist do not understand it. Yes we are all taken in by an scam artist once in awhile but why go back time and time again to them.

When royality checks are non-existances. Your emails get unanswered. The promotional email keeps coming and flooding your email box. You haven't sold any books other than the ones you deep discounted yourself and made no money on the sale. Why in all that is logical and simple as 1 +1 = 2, do you send them another book or several books? Not only that if that wasn't bad enough, you praise them as the best thing since sliced bread.

I'm sorry I just don't see the logic in this senerio, nor do I have the tolerance for those that get bitten more than once by this snake.

Heck maybe I am just having a bad day..week...month or year since signing up the 7 year tour to demons pit that is called PA. Like others I refuse to give them another red dime they have enough of my blood.

Whew...maybe I just needed to vent after reading the facebook "praise" and their promotional pages or message board.

Jill Karg said:

Why in all that is logical and simple as 1 +1 = 2, do you send them another book or several books? Not only that if that wasn't bad enough, you praise them as the best thing since sliced bread.

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The same reason certain cities still cheer for sports teams who can't win if you handed them an empty field, and constantly tell themselves that this year is the year the team is going to the playoffs.

(That sounds like a flippant answer, but I actually mean that seriously.)

People have a perceived investment in their local sports teams -- even if those teams suck -- and so many will convince themselves to keep cheerleading them. I think being signed to PA is probably the same way; now they're 'your' team and so some will feel a need to cheer for them, and tell themselves that this year is the one they'll get to the finals... rather, this book is the one that will pay out royalties.

Jill, I bet a lot of them keep coming back to PA because despite the abuse, lies, and cheating, they think PA is their only option.

The reaction is creepily like that of a battered and brainwashed spouse. You make excuses, claim you're happy, and defend, defend, defend the abuse (it was my fault, I provoked this) even as you're being wheeled bleeding into the ER. (Press charges? Of course not, my spouse LOVES me!)

They're victims. Victims of ignorance or insecurity or both, but still victims.

At least until they wake up, smell the coffee, and get the hell out while they can.

PA just damned well better hope they don't piss off a Lorena Bobbitt.

Gillhoughly said:

Jill, I bet a lot of them keep coming back to PA because despite the abuse, lies, and cheating, they think PA is their only option.

The reaction is creepily like that of a battered and brainwashed spouse. You make excuses, claim you're happy, and defend, defend, defend the abuse (it was my fault, I provoked this) even as you're being wheeled bleeding into the ER. (Press charges? Of course not, my spouse LOVES me!)

They're victims. Victims of ignorance or insecurity or both, but still victims.

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I believe some people have an almost endless capacity for self-delusion, especially when the truth threatens their self-esteem or self-image. For some, PA represents success--"I got published!"--and admitting that PA is a scam would destroy that illusion. Money, time, effort--all are less important than preserving the illusion, because the illusion preserves the self-image.

That is my theory for why some PA authors continue to defend PA, and even return for more abuse with a 2nd or 3rd book.

There's also the thought about it being better to have a book "out there" than sitting in a drawer. Someone might stumble on it if it's "out there," and it's for sure no one will stumble on it if it's in a drawer.

This is the value of "out there":

Yesterday our bookstore closed its doors forever. One of the items that ended up left over was a stack of about 20 copies of a vanity-published, POD printed book. Our totally incompetent idiot of a new manager had stopped talking to her cronies on her cell phone long enough to force one of the booksellers who could actually operate the computer to order those books in for an author signing*. None ever sold.

They were marked down lower and lower over the weeks of liquidation sales. On closing day they were marked 10 cents each. They still all ended up being dumpstered. No one wanted them, even at that price.

I can't see that there is any value to badly publishing a book simply to get it "out there".



*Me bitter? Not at all . But when the liquidator fired her within 3 days of taking over, it was balm to my soul .

The "out there" myth relies on the idea (well, it did for me when I thought there was some truth to it) that you build up a following at first by people you know, who tell others, plus the curious customers who see your book and say "Sure, I'll take a chance on that" and then tell others. After all, I've taken chances and been pleasantly surprised. You then have a handful of fans who actively keep an eye out for your next book, which all of them buy and convince a few others to buy too. By your third or fourth book, you will have examples of previous work as a "resume" publishers can use to evaluate you and you have enough of a following to get the attention of the bigger publishers, at which point you will get nationwide distribution and your career will take off.

What I didn't understand was that the number of people I know who will actually buy my book is quite small, and the number of curious who will say "Yeah, I'll take a chance on that" is smaller still. Add to this the fact that because PA does not distribute to stores, there is not even a flea's sneeze chance of catching the eye of the curious.

Compare this to the number of readers a commercial publisher, even a small one, will reach and I'm left wondering why anyone would want to do it the slow way of the "out there" approach. There are a few self-publishers who've done quite well with it, but I don't have the industry savvy to be one of those people.

it is word of mouth approach and if your product is a good product and here is key "Priced Competively" then it is one tool of many to use. But PA knows this and aka your book isn't priced to sell by this method or any method, except you buy your own book and then take the hit when you price it to standard price for the size and gendra of your novel. So you lose any way you look at it.

merrihiatt said:

There's also the thought about it being better to have a book "out there" than sitting in a drawer. Someone might stumble on it if it's "out there," and it's for sure no one will stumble on it if it's in a drawer.

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Of course, since PA does absolutely no promotion, marketing or distribution, no one is likely to stumble across your book unless they are actually looking for it--which severely limits the potential customer base. And if anyone does happen to stumble across your book, the price will scare them away, unless they are buying it as a favor to you. Very early in the process I decided not to allow PA to try to take advantage of my friends and family like that.

Thus, PA has managed to sell exactly two copies of my book in four years, and I am not even sure they sold those two copies, since the royalty statements all indicate zero sales. I now think maybe I got somebody else's royalty check for $2.78; either that or PA was trying to tempt me into buying books by giving me a small taste of "success."

Just thought I'd mention for those who keep track of such things, the PublishAmerica sign is once more hanging from the townhouse on Patrick Street. Looks like they're back in the digs they abandoned in 2004/5.

http://g.co/maps/tnn8s

Didn't know if anyone else had noticed it yet, but it made me shudder when I drove past it this weekend.

What? No space available under a bridge?

~brianm~

I'll check it out. Last time I was in downtown Frederick, the massive townhouse on East Church St. was leased and occupied by another company.

The Patrick St. address is owned, I believe, by Larry Clopper.
Maybe that's where the PA attorney conducts his business. Just a guess.

It's close to the courthouse, after all.

Hope they're properly zoned to use that for light industry.

Yeah, it would be a shame if someone reported a zoning violation to the powers that be in Frederick.

Sad to report that Patrick Street is zoned commercial/residential, with many ground-floor shops with apartments above.
*dammit*

Yes, but isn't publishing a light industry as opposed to commercial?