The Newer Never-Ending PublishAmerica / America Star Books Thread

I wouldn't be surprised if they also run a grammar check and accept the changes, but I don't know that to be a fact.

AudioGenius said:

On a slightly different note, when I took a look at the PAperback book section I came across this and found it more than a little funny. At 68 pages, if the author considers being "published" by PA a legitimate writing credit, wouldn't it be at least 67 pages too long?

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I can't bring myself to laugh, because I feel bad. The author thinks they are giving legitimate, helpful advice. Whereas what an author who's seriously interested in the Christian writing field should be doing is reading books by well-known authors in that field and attending genre-specific conferences.

Katrina S. Forest said:

I can't bring myself to laugh, because I feel bad. The author thinks they are giving legitimate, helpful advice. Whereas what an author who's seriously interested in the Christian writing field should be doing is reading books by well-known authors in that field and attending genre-specific conferences.

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It is sad. PA customers think they're doing good work, and not just in the Christian field. I hope when she sees the truth the PA experience doesn't diminish her faith.

IMO it's okay for people to live in their own fantasy land, as long as they don't try to drag others in there with them.
Or proclaim themselves an expert in their imaginary field.

Gillhoughly said:

That's the size of most trade paperbacks--the same size that PA has been using, since that's what their printer spits out. When it works.

Dear PA Lurkers--there is NO difference between the regular PA book and their PAperbacks except price.

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Wow ... they're pretty crafty. A couple of things threw me off. In my store most of the trade paperbacks are 5.5 x 8.5, a few more are just a little smaller. Very few titles were actually 6x9, I wasn't sure if the slight difference referred to a different format. I didn't have a PA softcover on hand so I didn't know what they had been using, all I had was a horribly bound hardback ... I could do a better job, it doesn't even have the title anywhere on the outside of the book (except on the "jacket"). But, what really threw me was the fact that they said they were discontinuing the softcovers ... I figured "paperback" must be a different format. That's just wrong.

Gillhoughly said:

But to get that price YOU have to buy a set number of copies. BTW--no other publisher does that to its writers. Not one.

PA knows danged well the lower price will not improve sales to the general public because those books will NOT be in stores; they have no distribution. PA won't tell you that, either.

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I just felt that was worth repeating.

Marie Pacha said:

Here's what their website says:

"Is my book returnable?
PublishAmerica experiments on and off with making books returnable for bookstores that order through a wholesaler. In the present economic climate publishers must play it conservatively. To find out the returnability status of your particular book, please contact us. "

http://www.publishamerica.com/support/#return

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So very bizarre. They experiment on and off with standard publishing practices...

Katrina S. Forest said:

I can't bring myself to laugh, because I feel bad. The author thinks they are giving legitimate, helpful advice. Whereas what an author who's seriously interested in the Christian writing field should be doing is reading books by well-known authors in that field and attending genre-specific conferences.

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Very true Katrina. I wasn't meaning to poke fun at the author, I was just thinking that to apply that concept to PA would be a few lines long.

James D. Macdonald said:

And I thought, what a wonderful world she lives in! She is one of the foremost poets in the land! Who could ask for more?

Happiness is so rare in this world. I wish well to everyone.

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That's strangely beautiful.

Speaking of happiness, aren't you one of the authors that collaborated on the PA sting book Atlanta Nights? I was just reading a bit of what's on books.google.com. Good God man, that's quite seriously the most brilliantly terrible thing I've ever read. I'll likely buy a copy at some point. No sarcasm here ... I'm very impressed.

James D. Macdonald said:

It was my idea, and I ran the project.

I'm also one of the few people (if not only person) in the world who know(s) the plot of Atlanta Nights. (The nice folks at Fandom Wank tried to figure it out, but I don't know if they ever succeeded....)

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Well, cheers to you my friend. I've done a fair bit of narrative readings (just local at the moment), and for the life of me I couldn't manage narrating past the first few pages without chuckling... it's now a pet project. I'll do a "serious" reading of that MS if it kills me.

Note: I did change my wording on my first comment ... perpetrator was meant as a joke, but it just seemed wrong every time I read it.

AudioGenius said:

In my store most of the trade paperbacks are 5.5 x 8.5, a few more are just a little smaller. Very few titles were actually 6x9, I wasn't sure if the slight difference referred to a different format.

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There's no hard and fast rule on the exact size of a trade PB, which is also called softcover in the industry.

*I* call anything larger than a mass market paperback a "trade." It's sort of correct, but not really.

As Uncle Jim correctly pointed out, it has to do with returns, not size.

Unsold MMPBs have their covers stripped and returned to the publishers. The rest of the book (one hopes) goes into a recycle bin.

Unsold trade paperbacks & HCs are physically returned when they do not sell. This costs money; the publisher foots that bill.

Since PA has no real return policy, this is just another case of weasel-wording to make sales to their own writers.

They are counting on their writers to assume that changing the name to "paperback" and lowering the price will make them think their books will NOW be in the stores.

Ain't gonna happen. The writer has to still go beg for shelf space. The writer discovers the stores don't want PA books. They complain on the PA board; they get deleted and banned.


Once again PA Lurkers: PA HAS NO DISTRIBUTION. Your book will not be in stores. Without distribution, it simply does not exist to the stores.

Your book MAY be listed through online venues, but as you may have noticed, it is usually shown to be "out of stock" and no one is going to bother ordering an overpriced, out-of-stock book, even if they do know it exists.

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A real publisher decides long before offering a contract what format to put a book--HC, trade, MMPB or all three--during the course of its publishing life.

A great deal of money is involved in the production of each. The publisher contracts a separate printing firm to do the actual work, AFTER a book's been through proper editing, copy-editing, and the author as approved everything, seen galleys, and approved those, too.

None of which PA does. Again, they count on the fact their writers don't know squat about publishing--else the writers would have never sent their book to PA in the first place!

PA has just slapped on a name change, a small price reduction, and is offering a conditional deal: "buy a certain number of books and we'll tweak the working on the website. Hey, presto, you now have a PAperback!!"

Let's look at "conditional" a second. It means "if you do this, I'll do that." It's the basis of trade the world over.

But the trade is supposed to be equal. "If you clean the kitchen, I'll mow the lawn."

Not: "If you clean the kitchen, change all the beds, clear out the garage, and paint the house, I'll mow the lawn."

PA ain't doing even that much. "If you buy 9 books, we'll tweak the website, keep all your money, and you still won't make sales."

No real publisher does that!

PA is NEVER going to do the kind of mass printings that are business as usual with a legit publisher. It's still the same size book, they will still market only to their writers, the writers continue to believe the lies until they wise up.

"celebrities" who chose PeeYay.

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Being famous doesn't make one immune to mistakes. They're just as subject to judgment errors and can be as ignorant of the publishing process as anyone else. TV tabloid shows thrive on celeb mistakes.

It is sad. PA customers think they're doing good work, and not just in the Christian field. I hope when she sees the truth the PA experience doesn't diminish her faith.

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As I've said before, if a speed bump like PA shakes their faith, then that faith wasn't terribly solid from the get-go.

Gillhoughly said:

Being famous doesn't make one immune to mistakes. They're just as subject to judgment errors and can be as ignorant of the publishing process as anyone else. TV tabloid shows thrive on celeb mistakes.

As I've said before, if a speed bump like PA shakes their faith, then that faith wasn't terribly solid from the get-go.

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PA is only banking on the famous name and only as a matter of promotion for themselves; they could not care less how good the writing.

Indeed, faith should not be a matter of circumstance, good or bad. Unfortunately, most of it is.
Neil

Well, Uncle Jim, I didn't want to scare the parents with that one, but you're right.

I am sorry if this has been addressed and if there are posts regarding this please kindly direct me to them. I am interested to know if there was any follow up to PA at the BookExpo. Did anyone go? Was their actually a booth? Were they looked down upon? I am dying to know details does anyone know them?

James D. Macdonald said:

Actually, it's more like "If you clean the kitchen, change all the beds, clear out the garage, paint the house, and give me a knobber, I'll mow the lawn (at my election and discretion)."

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My daughter came up with a good one the other day: If life were a soccer game, you'd be a vuvuzela.
Applied to this subject: If publishing were a soccer game, PA would be a vuvuzela.
I like it.
(Incidentally, my daughter's husband is from South Africa, born of an old Dutch family. Up until this championship neither she nor anyone in her husband's family had ever heard of this so-called long-standing "tradition" of the vuvuzela and that it's part of "their culture.")
Neil

xXFireSpiritXx said:

I am sorry if this has been addressed and if there are posts regarding this please kindly direct me to them. I am interested to know if there was any follow up to PA at the BookExpo. Did anyone go? Was their actually a booth? Were they looked down upon? I am dying to know details does anyone know them?

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IIRC, there's a post somewhere in this thread by Ann C. Crispin, who took a look at the PA booth. As soon as they read her name tag, they took a photograph of her. God alone knows what they plan to do with it.

And I will follow up on Gilloughy's assertion that distribution is key in the print publishing world.

My story in brief:

I signed on with a yet-to-be-launched house knowing full well distribution would be the biggest battle. I recieved a low, low 4-figure advance. I had a beautiful cover created in part by well known painters in my genre. The cover also featured the daughter of one of my genres best selling authors. I recieved 100 book flats. I recieved 200-400 beautifully styled bookmarks. I recieved 25 free author copies. My publisher sent my book for review to numerous places that dealt with my genre. Every convention and bookseller event they attended, my book was there. I had a (verified) print run of 20,000 copies.

But...remember...I said distribution was key. In reality, with all of that, my book sold around 1500 copies. You can promote in every manner possible, but if people can't find it on the shelves, sorry. Those spontaneous buys count for much. Don't expect that having your book posted on Amazon, Bam, or B&N to drive sales. You are one of thousands and thousands. And truthfully, I know many people who won't even shop on those sites. "Give out my credit card number on the net? No way!"

And that is my story. Think long and hard, potential PA authors.

James D. Macdonald said:

Actually, it's more like "If you clean the kitchen, change all the beds, clear out the garage, paint the house, and give me a knobber, I'll mow the lawn (at my election and discretion)."

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And if you complain about it, I'll divorce you and keep the house.

Queen of Swords said:

IIRC, there's a post somewhere in this thread by Ann C. Crispin, who took a look at the PA booth. As soon as they read her name tag, they took a photograph of her. God alone knows what they plan to do with it.

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Probably post it on their secret internal "Black List."

Yup, they have one of those, too.
Try to submit a perfectly good manuscript from, say, James D. Macdonald or Dave Kuzminski and see what happens.

This just in...

Oh, joy of joys! My PA softcover is one of the selected titles that is exempt from the compulsory transition to hardcover. I wonder how many others made the list? (Don't answer, Jim and Gill, I already know!--all of them). My book will still be available in softcover at the regular price, and I still qualify for the "occasional" deep discounts.

But wait! There's more: if I buy five softcovers they will send me 20 more at no cost and no shipping charges for the free 20.

But wait! There's more: If I do the above, they will activate the PAperback version of by book (if I haven't done so already), so that my readers will have two versions of my book from which to choose: softcover and PAperback. (What about hardcover? If the move to hardcover is compulsory for other titles why can't mine be available in hardcover too?).

The "buy five, get 25 offer" expires Thursday.

Completely separate issue:

Gillhoughly said:

Unsold MMPBs have their covers stripped and returned to the publishers. The rest of the book (one hopes) goes into a recycle bin.

Unsold trade paperbacks & HCs are physically returned when they do not sell. This costs money; the publisher foots that bill.

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I don't see it much anymore, but about 30 years ago I used to buy a bunch of paperbacks at flea markets and garage sales with no front covers. I always wondered who would rip off the covers just for fun, but now I know.

The stores are supposed to toss those, but sometimes an enterprising person illegally resells them.


Reminds me of an enterprising couple who would fish through the trash at a movie house, salvage drink cups in good condition, then resell drinks in them at the concession stand and pocket the money.

Theaters count drink cups to figure out how many drinks they sell each night. They found a loophole to exploit.

The manager caught on when he noticed the syrup levels dropped normally, but hardly any new cups were used.

Ew.

Oh-hell-yes, they got fired.

This is why I sneak a bottled drink in when I go to a show. Yeah, it's illegal, too, but I'd rather get thrown out than catch something the Mayo Clinic never heard of.

They are now offering bottled drinks at some places, though.

Yes. I recycle the plastic bottle!

Queen of Swords said:

IIRC, there's a post somewhere in this thread by Ann C. Crispin, who took a look at the PA booth. As soon as they read her name tag, they took a photograph of her. God alone knows what they plan to do with it.

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Well I could think of a few things:

-future attempt at squashing negativity. 'Look, professionals are taking note of PA!'

-future they're-just-jealous post

-Miranda's going to try and claim Ann's stalking her at a public event on the basis of one photograph. I'm telling you Ann, you should have smiled and waved

Chris P said:

But wait! There's more: If I do the above, they will activate the PAperback version of by book (if I haven't done so already), so that my readers will have two versions of my book from which to choose: softcover and PAperback. (What about hardcover? If the move to hardcover is compulsory for other titles why can't mine be available in hardcover too?).

The "buy five, get 25 offer" expires Thursday.

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Pain.
Whispering voices.
Pain.
Pain. Pain. Pain.

My mind hurts. They will activate the PAperback version? Let me see if I have this more or less straight. You have to buy from them so that they will activate a version of their book, that they already sell ... but then it would be available at two different prices?

Oh, and regarding the hardback version. It's a joke anyway. Globs of glue sticking out of the edges of the binding is not attractive.

Under the category "Lack of Communication" -- I have received no information from PA regarding any of the changes they are implementing. Nothing about hardcovers. Zip about softcovers going by the wayside. Nada about the PAperbacks. So lovely when a publisher chooses not to inform their authors about major changes with their book and their book's availability, price and format.

PA LURKERS, this is "business as usual" for PublishAmerica. They couldn't care less if they inform their authors about changes. What do they care about? Selling books to you, their author. As long as your credit card clears, PA is happy as a clam.

Price reduction????

Gillhoughly said:

PA has just slapped on a name change, a small price reduction, and is offering a conditional deal: "buy a certain number of books and we'll tweak the working on the website. Hey, presto, you now have a PAperback!!"

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What price reduction did I miss? In June my book went from $19.95 to $24.95 on PA's web site. (It's still $19.95 on Amazon.com.)

Maybe I mis-read. I understood they were going to offer "paperbacks" for 9.95--providing one buys 9 books first.

Most everything else will be part of the conversion to hardcover only.

Unless they bring back trade size (same size as "paperbacks") by "popular demand" -- which might be the first time in 10 years they ever took note of something their writers wanted.

In other words, it's all more of the same: use weasel-wording to mislead, and screw the writers out of as much cash as possible before the honeymoon period ends.

By weasel-wording, I mean the use of the word "paperback" which for most means those pocket size mass market editions. It's the first mental image I get--along with seeing thousands of them crowding the shelves in bookstores.

Exactly the kind of reassuring image PA wants to create!

The victim writer has done half of PA's work if they imagine their book will finally be competitively priced and in stores. PA certainly won't tell them different.

Dear Lurkers, "Available" even at 9.95, doesn't mean "shelved." Never has, never will.

Anyway, real publishers don't make deals like that with their writers. Only vanity houses like PA stoop that low.