Bad writing as a "stylistic device"?

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10er

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Once upon a time, I was reading American Psycho. For those unfamiliar with the work, it's about a psychopath killer. And I liked the book a lot.

Now the issue: the first person narrator in this lovely piece sometimes spends thousands of words to ramble about albums he likes.
When I read those parts, I found them boring. I skipped through them, I really didn't care.

But the fact that the narrator (in my mind) chose to include them in his tale fleshed his character out for me. I wouldn't want the author to cut even a single line from these parts, even if I personally didn't give a damn about what the protagonist thinks about the bands in question.

So long story short: can bad/boring parts be used as a legitimate stylisic device? Can bad become good in a strange writer's paradox? Or am I just being weird?
And don't say "Whatever works, works." I figured out that much by myself. ;)
 

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Why in the name of god would you not want them cut if you 'found them boring' and 'skipped through them'? WHY?
 

10er

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Um... I just told you?
I thought they added character.
Namely the character trait: "So anal about music he thinks it appropriate to rant about albums in between descriptions of his killing sprees."
The rants' content wasn't important to me, their volume and sheer existence was.

But you could have just said "yes, you're being weird."
 

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Except that while they were boring to you, they are unlikely to be so to the author.

You were able to appreciate the bits you found boring and understood they were there to develop character, but I don't think the author thought, "Eh this is really boring to read, but it develops character." I think the author thought, "This really develops the character" end of.

"Bad" writing is used all the time. Poor grammar to show the narrator's voice/education level, digressions that go off on long tangents for humour and tone (see Douglas Adams and his poor imitation yours truly), breaking all the rules but so effectively the story could not be written any other way.

However I don't think any of these instances were found dull by the author him/herself.

Though, that being said, I bet there is an author out there who purposefully set out to bore his readers for whatever profound reason and did it brilliantly.

But it's the "brilliantly" part that's important.
 

KTC

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Um... I just told you?
I thought they added character.
Namely the character trait: "So anal about music he thinks it appropriate to rant about albums in between descriptions of his killing sprees."
The rants' content wasn't important to me, their volume and sheer existence was.

But you could have just said "yes, you're being weird."

Yes. You did tell me. But why wouldn't you want to see them gone if you're not even going to read them through? That just doesn't make since. The way you described it, that section is just taking up space. 'Their volume and sheer existence' was important to you...even though the content wasn't? Please...you have to see that you are making no sense whatsoever.
 

AliceWrites

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I haven't read the book, so I have no idea how boring the music sections are.

However, I will say that they don't sound like a stylistic device, but a character building exercise, which is why they were probably key to the story.

I hate to stereotype, but as a writer, sometimes it's necessary: e.g. a psycho killer who listens to Mozart is going to be a different character to the one who listens to 70s disco music. Different culture, different outlook on life, etc.
 

10er

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Except that while they were boring to you, they are unlikely to be so to the author.

I believe that. But he must have known many readers simply wouldn't care.

But that's not really what my question was about. It's more about whether anyone else thinks boredom has its place in writing.

'Their volume and sheer existence' was important to you...even though the content wasn't? Please...you have to see that you are making no sense whatsoever.

Makes sense to me. I started reading and thought "Oh great, another album review". Skimmed some more and thought "Wow, he's still not done?" And then when he was done I thought "This guy is nuts."
I had read maybe 10% of the section but had been left with a nice impression.
 
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ChristineR

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A lot of people found those sections hilarious, you know. You try to convince yourself whether the character is serious, then you wonder if he's insane, then you wonder whether the author is serious, which is pretty much the whole point of the book. They're only boring if you don't step back from them and wonder what's really going on.
 

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A lot of people found those sections hilarious, you know. You try to convince yourself whether the character is serious, then you wonder if he's insane, then you wonder whether the author is serious, which is pretty much the whole point of the book. They're only boring if you don't step back from them and wonder what's really going on.

I found them hilarious too! As I said, I wouldn't want a single line less printed in the book. And I did step back to wonder what was going on because they went on forever. I think you can really skim through them and still get the intended (?) effect, though. However on the flip side, I think you can't get the effect if they were cut down to a fraction of their size and you ended up reading every single word.

You could say I was entertained by boredom. That's the paradox I'm trying to discuss here.
I think the movie Napoleon Dynamite was going for the same effect. (Though it didn't work for me in that case. Hate that movie.)
 

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An interesting thing about this thread is the title - "Bad writing as a "stylistic device".

Were the sections you mentioned - the ones about the records - really poorly written? Or did you simply find them boring?

There's a difference. Bad writing would imply clunky description, poorly worded sentences, cardboard characters, etc. But lengthy passages that a particular reader doesn't enjoy doesn't necessarily mean the writing is bad. Plenty of writers go on lengthy tangents.

So, to answer your question, I'd say that the author in question isn't a poor writer, but perhaps a wordy one. And that would be a legitimate style.
 

NicoleMD

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Um... I just told you?
I thought they added character.
Namely the character trait: "So anal about music he thinks it appropriate to rant about albums in between descriptions of his killing sprees."
The rants' content wasn't important to me, their volume and sheer existence was.

But you could have just said "yes, you're being weird."

I find myself thinking this way also sometimes. I'll skim through a part that doesn't particularly appeal to me, but I like that it's there. I know that there's some more depth than what I'm getting out of it, and that's good enough for me. I just don't want to know all the details. Kind of like when you're half-listening to your spouse.

Nicole
 

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I was actually going to post a thread about this too. You beat me to it.:)

This isn't from a novel, but another example of this is Beach Boys songs. Beach Boy lyrics are totally dumb.

"Went to a dance/looking for romance/saw Barbara Ann/and I thought I'd take a chance/Barbara Ann!"

I mean, you couldn't have more obvious rhymes; you couldn't possibly say less about a girl you like; this doesn't say anything we haven't heard a million times before, and yet, if this song were to have the most beautiful, poingiant lyrics ever written, it would be a diminishment. Why?

Anyway, that's how I feel.
 

James D. Macdonald

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Remember that

a) American Psycho wasn't a first novel, and
b) It was rejected after turn-in by the publisher who'd bought it.

It may not be your best choice of a model to follow.
 

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Once upon a time I read "The Devil Wears Prada." Now I didn't care at all about the designer names, what the outfits looked like, every single gift they were giving at Christmas, etc., but I'm sure that many readers of the book cared deeply. I skipped over those parts, and I doubt anyone can say they showed anything but the designer names. But that didn't mean they weren't important to name in a chick-lit novel set in the fashion world. One man's treasure....
 

The Lonely One

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Bad writing didn't seem to help Candace Bushnell any. I mean stylistically.

I don't know about boring parts showing character. Could work for some. For me, I think it's more a matter of tricking a reader into believing a character has an attribute that causes them to ramble for miles. I'd really prefer if the plot got on with itself even if the writer intersperses the SOC stuff. I might tolerate it for a handful of pages but the writer's definitely taking a gamble with my attention.
 

The Lonely One

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Sorry for the Bushnell comment. Hope I didn't offend with my snark.

*The crowd falls deathly ill--silent--sorry...
 

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There are probably plenty of examples of writing that, taken out of context, would be considered poor or bad writing. But within context, they could well be written that way as a tool, used by the writer for a specific purpose. I immediately think of the tense parts of scenes, where the writer uses short, choppy sentences as a tool to put the reader on edge. Take that passage out of the story and send it through SYW and it will likely get ripped for not varying the length of sentences and for being such horrible choppy prose. Other examples can be found, and maybe the American Psycho example upstream can be included (since it apparently adds to characterization, or was intended to do so). Do these equal "stylistic devices?" I think there may be more than a subtle difference between a writing tool and a stylistic device, in that the former can be used to help create the latter, but the latter doesn't always equate with the former.
 

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Well it is a matter of showing the character realistically, and sometimes authors may be allowed some leniency in the writing for the sake of the character.

The Remains of the Day
is considered a masterpiece of literature, written with a butler as the narrator. I studied it deeply at school, and the first thing the teacher warned us was not to be put off. The first four pages or so were about a staff plan. Boring rambling for pages. The narrator was idiosyncratic, and the book was sometimes a bit of a struggle to get through, but it was all for a certain effect - the feeling you get for the character at the end of it, and the sense of loss.

I haven't read American Psycho but in writing about a unique character such as a killer, I'd suspect certain things would be there for charaterization purposes, and well, not everyone finds the same things boring :)
 

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I am reading Chuck Palahniuk's Pygmy. He goes out of his way to write very poorly because it is a first person POV who speaks horrible english. So even when he is just thinking or narrarating, the sentences are poorly formed. I find it hard to read sometimes yet, in this case, it was done perfectly to advance the book and build the character.
 
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William Haskins

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A lot of people found those sections hilarious, you know. You try to convince yourself whether the character is serious, then you wonder if he's insane, then you wonder whether the author is serious, which is pretty much the whole point of the book. They're only boring if you don't step back from them and wonder what's really going on.

bingo.
 

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I guess I'm fascinated on the concept of 'skimming'. I don't do it. I don't know how. I read every word. Sometimes this is great news. Sometimes it's self-flagellation.

IN the case of American Psycho, those passages were priceless to me. Their placement was like tipping the room sideways to me. They made Patrick much scarier than he would have been without them, even while making me laugh.

They were horribly rambling, but I don't think it was bad writing. It was the whole point.
 
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