Is it better to find an editor that charges by the page? Or the hour? I "met" someone whose services are priced by the hour. She seems like the real deal, but I just don't know how the hourly thing works. What say you?
Editing Pricing
- Thread starter DoomieBey
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Personally, I would prefer by the page. By the hour is a subjective unit; the person could spend the entire hour working on your paper, or they could spend 45 minutes with a 15 minute break, or whatever. In that situation, you can't be sure that you are getting good value. The page measure is much more accurate because the number of pages is objective; the editor can't decide how much is a page.
If you are going to go with the hours value, make sure you research the editor. Even though I dislike the hour measurement, it's not necessarily bad. If you do research on an editor and they have a great reputation, it would probably be fine to go with them. Just make sure you have good evidence to suggest that the person will be ethical with the time.
If you are going to go with the hours value, make sure you research the editor. Even though I dislike the hour measurement, it's not necessarily bad. If you do research on an editor and they have a great reputation, it would probably be fine to go with them. Just make sure you have good evidence to suggest that the person will be ethical with the time.
All the editors I know charge by page. How on earth would you know how long something took them to edit?
I was thinking along the same lines. The woman certainly offered to do a sample, and is a member of AW [not that it speaks for integrity, per se]. I explained that the hourly rate spooked me, and she understood.
Could you, would you, forward some of the information about editors you are currently aware of, please? That'd be great.
Go to this link (it takes you to Backgrounds and Bewares). Scroll down the index. You'll see several links to threads/articles that you should read before ever hiring an editing service. Read thru those and then below you will see links to threads regarding specific companies and individuals.
Shop away and look for an editor who offers what you are looking for. Good luck and happy shopping.
Shop away and look for an editor who offers what you are looking for. Good luck and happy shopping.
That was very informative! I'd never heard of critique groups, but I'm certainly going to do a Google search. Are critique groups like www.critiquecircle.com much like the Beta Readers on this site? Also, I'll locate and begin reading Uncle Jim's Thread. Also, another pal suggested that I take some time to read some of the threads from the Share Your Work section of this site. I'll do this and see where it goes. Thanks.
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Something else for you to consider. If an editor really knows what they're doing and gives you a per hour price - you can ask them to let you know approximately how long it takes them to edit a 70,000 word MS. If they're legit they won't be offended and will come back to you quickly with an approx time. Of course they will tell you that this is dependent on the state your MS is in but if you've provided a sample to them they should be able to tell you roughly how long they think it'll take them. Never worry about asking questions - if they won't answer them worry about them. I saw a post somewhere on AW that said "the only stupid question is the one you don't ask" that is so true!
Good luck with your editor.
Good luck with your editor.
Good morning. That certainly make's sense. I'm in contact with one person who charges by the hour. She even offered to do a sample for me, so I may be in good hands.
Excellent. If she's good once she does a sample she should be able to give you an estimate that's virtually accurate. Just make sure you don't pick the best pages to send her for the sample, I know this is difficult because people usually want to send their favourite bit which is usually the part they've worked on the most and is therefore the best.
Two other points though pertaining to your editor. When she gets back to you with a quote you can ask her to cap it - i.e the most you will have to pay is - xxxx - that way you aren't hit up with something that's way off the estimate and since you've given her a sample she should be close to the mark with her quote anyway.
Secondly you can ask her - after you've agreed to the work that when you send her your MS if there is much more work than she thought there would be based on your sample to get back to you straight away and before she continues the work. This way both of you will know exactly where you stand with each other.
Two other points though pertaining to your editor. When she gets back to you with a quote you can ask her to cap it - i.e the most you will have to pay is - xxxx - that way you aren't hit up with something that's way off the estimate and since you've given her a sample she should be close to the mark with her quote anyway.
Secondly you can ask her - after you've agreed to the work that when you send her your MS if there is much more work than she thought there would be based on your sample to get back to you straight away and before she continues the work. This way both of you will know exactly where you stand with each other.
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I've done freelance editing, and always charged by the double-spaced page, same as everyone else. It's just too easy to gouge a writer on the price for an hourly rate.
Just the other week I did an edit for a 36-page story for a collection I'm doing for a publishing house.
Charging by the page (at my old rate, if I was still doing freelance editing) it would have cost the writer 75-80 dollars.
By the hour it would have been around 350+ dollars because the story needed a LOT of work.
I always turned down jobs from writers who thought that a pro editing job would give them an "in" for the submission process. Those I sent to AW to try the Share your Work forum.
The jobs I accepted were for writers who were self-publishing their niche books.
Just the other week I did an edit for a 36-page story for a collection I'm doing for a publishing house.
Charging by the page (at my old rate, if I was still doing freelance editing) it would have cost the writer 75-80 dollars.
By the hour it would have been around 350+ dollars because the story needed a LOT of work.
I always turned down jobs from writers who thought that a pro editing job would give them an "in" for the submission process. Those I sent to AW to try the Share your Work forum.
The jobs I accepted were for writers who were self-publishing their niche books.
Most editors set their per page rates based on the amount of time it takes (on average) to edit. So they are indirectly charging based on an hourly rate.
So for example if someone charges $5/a page for a copy edit, he may expect to edit an average of seven pages an hour - and hence make $35/hour. He may be able to work at slightly quicker clip - say nine pages or 45/hour or a slower - one 5 pages at @25 an hour -but overall editors are looking at how much money they will bring in over the amount of time it takes to complete the edit. $25 by the way is on the low end of the editing scale. It's not uncommon to find editors who charge twice that or even more.
It may be a better marketing move to charge by the page, but it's not necessarily a better deal for the writer. In most cases the hourly vs. page rate would come out to the same fee and in some circumstances, a writer can actually make out better on an hourly rate.
The difference between Gilloughly's per page rate of $75 or 80 vs. an hourly rate for the same work of $350 - is quite broad. One way to avoid underbidding on a page or flat rate is, if possible, to eyeball the first few pages of a manuscript before giving a quote. There's nothing wrong with customizing your page rate to reflect the scope of work of a particular job. If you see that there are serious grammatical errors and it will take you a few extra minutes to edit each page, then adjust your per page rate accordingly, so that you are compensated fairly for your time. I once edited a novel written by someone who was not a native English speaker for a flat rate - it was a decent flat rate, but i took a huge bath on the project - almost every paragraph needed work. I was averaging 1 1/2 to two pages an hour when I had budgeted my time for 4 or 5 that. He spoke English very well, so I wasn't expecting the grammar and syntax to be as problematic as it was.
As a professional freelancer you should always have an idea of both how much money any given job will bring in AND how much time it will take to do the job.
So for example if someone charges $5/a page for a copy edit, he may expect to edit an average of seven pages an hour - and hence make $35/hour. He may be able to work at slightly quicker clip - say nine pages or 45/hour or a slower - one 5 pages at @25 an hour -but overall editors are looking at how much money they will bring in over the amount of time it takes to complete the edit. $25 by the way is on the low end of the editing scale. It's not uncommon to find editors who charge twice that or even more.
It may be a better marketing move to charge by the page, but it's not necessarily a better deal for the writer. In most cases the hourly vs. page rate would come out to the same fee and in some circumstances, a writer can actually make out better on an hourly rate.
The difference between Gilloughly's per page rate of $75 or 80 vs. an hourly rate for the same work of $350 - is quite broad. One way to avoid underbidding on a page or flat rate is, if possible, to eyeball the first few pages of a manuscript before giving a quote. There's nothing wrong with customizing your page rate to reflect the scope of work of a particular job. If you see that there are serious grammatical errors and it will take you a few extra minutes to edit each page, then adjust your per page rate accordingly, so that you are compensated fairly for your time. I once edited a novel written by someone who was not a native English speaker for a flat rate - it was a decent flat rate, but i took a huge bath on the project - almost every paragraph needed work. I was averaging 1 1/2 to two pages an hour when I had budgeted my time for 4 or 5 that. He spoke English very well, so I wasn't expecting the grammar and syntax to be as problematic as it was.
As a professional freelancer you should always have an idea of both how much money any given job will bring in AND how much time it will take to do the job.
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That's why I shut down my freelance editing business.
It didn't pay much.
Too many writers had work in need of free feedback, not editing.
I get paid a lot better by the publishers.
But just 'cause a person's on the NYT bestseller list doesn't mean they can pass a 5th grade English test.
One writer I've edited sells millions of books, is wildly popular, but clearly has a deadly allergy to Strunk and White's Elements of Style.
(Along with good characterization, sentence construction, and storytelling ability.)
I don't know HOW she ever got published in the first place, but she did, and life ain't fair.
What really annoyed me was the fact she ignored every single one of my edits--even for spelling and typos!--and dished that highly flawed story up to her fans.
That's just wrong.
I have more respect for my readers. They don't have to buy my words. It's my job to make sure they get my best work, not sloppy arrogance.
It didn't pay much.
Too many writers had work in need of free feedback, not editing.
I get paid a lot better by the publishers.
But just 'cause a person's on the NYT bestseller list doesn't mean they can pass a 5th grade English test.
One writer I've edited sells millions of books, is wildly popular, but clearly has a deadly allergy to Strunk and White's Elements of Style.
(Along with good characterization, sentence construction, and storytelling ability.)
I don't know HOW she ever got published in the first place, but she did, and life ain't fair.
What really annoyed me was the fact she ignored every single one of my edits--even for spelling and typos!--and dished that highly flawed story up to her fans.
That's just wrong.
I have more respect for my readers. They don't have to buy my words. It's my job to make sure they get my best work, not sloppy arrogance.
I was told that once I finish my MS, that I could [possibly] find a Beta to critique it for me. Then I would know whether I needed a copy editor, content editor, etc. Only then should I seriously concern myself with costs and the like. I'll follow that line of reasoning.
Elements of Style is a bit overrated, and propagates a number of out-right lies. It's worth reading, but it shouldn't have anywhere near the following that it has.
I would never edit with an hourly rate. I once did a freelance editing job as a subcontractor for another editor and the manuscript was in such a state that any sort of estimate would've been way off.
Make sure you get a time estimate before you commit and set a contractual ceiling to the amount of hours they can spend on it so you aren't surprised with extra costs.
Make sure you get a time estimate before you commit and set a contractual ceiling to the amount of hours they can spend on it so you aren't surprised with extra costs.
Ah, "setting a contractural ceiling to the amount of hours they can spend on it" seems to be a great idea. But what if a seemingly good editor that's reputable and meets the standards discussed in this thread thus far, is unwilling to set a limit? Is a limit common practice?
In my experience yes - if they're working by the hour and you've given them a genuine sample they will tell you an upper limit that they won't go above. However you've got to give and take a little bit. Be fair, tell them that when they start work - if they realise they've got a lot more work to do tell them to get in touch and you can take it from there - plus they can walk away with no hard feelings. Meet them halfway and be reasonable will result in a great relationship that will always be to your benefit. I've seen editors take on pieces knowing that they're lowering their margin because of the relationship with the author, plus if they're good they know they'll have a repeat customer. After all if you've written one book you're very unlikely to stop writing.
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