Sex in the 1800s

firedrake

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Well, if Mr. Butler plays the MIB in the movie version of his story (which I'm sure will be coming to theaters near you, soon after Puma publishes the novel), then perhaps I can have both. ;)

You might have to arm wrestle Jennifer Aniston for Mr. Butler, I think I read somewhere that he's her current target date.
 

firedrake

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Um who is Mr. Butler? :Shrug:

Gerard Butler, actor and C.E.'s main squeeze.

gerard.jpg
 
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Aleksandra

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Hmmm, even better

Mr. Butler was the Phantom in Phantom of the Opera/the movie.
Sans spit...he has a marvelous voice and was definitely, hypnotically, an attractive MIB. (they did not airbrush the spit flying from his mouth in the movie, which made him all the more agonizingly real)

Ps, I just popped in to introduce myself, as I have been lurking in the Historical section for a few weeks, and finally have the courage to post. So greetings, and Butler is a great MIB!

Nice to meet you all, Aleksandra
 

Puma

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Hi Aleksandra - Welcome to AW Historical. Nice to meet you too. Puma
 

cooeedownunder

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In depth: homophobia in Australia

Part way through this article it gets into the The history of homophobia in Australia and has sniplets of information regarding sexuality in Australia in the 1800s.

I found it interesting, especially because it is difficult to come across sexual information on Australians in this time period, and although we must have been heavily influance by British happenings at the time, by the the late 1700s and early 1800s we had adults who had been born here that grew up in a very different society than England with the majority of parents that came from various social glasses from England, Ireland and Scotland.

http://www.sa.org.au/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=519&Itemid=106
 
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Puma

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Thought I'd mention - a How Do You Write the Sex thread has popped up in the Novels writing forum. Interesting comparison to here. Puma
 

Phaedo

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Isn't it called "How Do You HANDLE the Sex".

How do I handle the sex? LOL. That thread name is already so much fun.

thanks, Puma, I shall give it a read.
 

cooeedownunder

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Thought I'd mention - a How Do You Write the Sex thread has popped up in the Novels writing forum. Interesting comparison to here. Puma

Yes, but I do noticed that a few of them at least think the scenes should be in charachter.

I also noticed one of the samples of a sex scene has an orgasm hitting a his head, (which I suppose it could in a sense) but I don't think that was what the writer meant, and eyes falling on a reflexion. :D
 

CoriSCapnSkip

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Agreed, the Instruction and Advice piece is fake, because even if anyone wrote something like that back then, no way would they sign their real name. Is she gonna advertise that not only does her husband hardly get any, it's no good when he does? No way!
 

cooeedownunder

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Agreed, the Instruction and Advice piece is fake, because even if anyone wrote something like that back then, no way would they sign their real name. Is she gonna advertise that not only does her husband hardly get any, it's no good when he does? No way!

I think the main consensous has been that regardless if that article is fake or not, that it is an acurate account of the times.
 

CoriSCapnSkip

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Fair point, but I doubt people are going to indulge in an activity which has every prospect of leading to insanity, blindness, gaping sores, nasty rashes and social ostracism if they weren't that interested in it in the first place.

Right there is pretty much the crux of all these questions I've been asking over at least the last two years.

The question is--why--is sex so all-important as to motivate sometimes even intelligent people to risk everything for it, including health, social status, and, if they accept the basic social and religious principles of the times, possibly their immortal souls? I'm obviously talking more about men patronizing prostitutes, than people in love who, for whatever circumstances, are unable to marry. The women, at least, had some motivations, as there were very few career opportunities and no social services to speak of until at least the 1930s, so they had to use whatever means they possessed for survival. But how about guys who made little enough as it was being willing to spend a significant portion on a phony relationship with a hooker and then thinking they're great studs just because they had done it? It's this thinking I can't understand! If male characters in historicals are supposed to be like this--how can I explain why my MC is like this if I can't fully understand it myself? (Okay, I've admittedly never been a guy, but I still think they are in many respects easier to write about than a female MC.)

It's like some actor who reads only the part of a script with his role and then comes in asking, "What's my motivation for this scene?" If I am writing about someone who does these things I need his motivation. If he doesn't...and everyone else (supposedly) does (and I am admittedly going more by historical novels written by men since the 1960s than by authentic historical sources, though I have referred to both) and my character isn't morbidly afraid of injury or death (he's willing to engage in other extremely risky activities including fighting in a war and caring for people with deadly contagious diseases) or overly religious (not fanatically so) how do I explain how and why he is different from other guys when it comes to sexual practices? (This is, during the time between age 16 or so and whenever he meets the woman he wants to marry.) He does have input and guidance from relatives and only so much peer pressure (tends to be a bit of a lone wolf at times) but I feel something is missing as far as a complete understanding of how guys reach these decisions. (Assuming thinking is even involved and not just recurrent fits of temporary insanity. Obviously, they don't do this just once to satisfy curiosity--it is addictive.)

I am talking about not only engaging and sustaining reader interest but simple suspension of disbelief--regarding what's "expected" of a main character who is good-looking, charming, and can be quite outgoing when he wants to. By no means a seducer or despoiler of women, but damn, how can he help it if they're madly attracted to him? I have no experience with possessing fatal charm IRL any more than I do with fighting in a war or confronting deadly contagious diseases, so those of you who have this problem please offer your invaluable assistance which I greatly appreciate.
 

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Right there is pretty much the crux of all these questions I've been asking over at least the last two years.

The question is--why--is sex so all-important as to motivate sometimes even intelligent people to risk everything for it, including health, social status, and, if they accept the basic social and religious principles of the times, possibly their immortal souls?

There's no law against adult male virgins you know.

Heaven knows there were certainly an awful lot of men who were and are virgins on their wedding nights.
 

cooeedownunder

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Gee, that is a long time laspe between posts.

CoriSCapnSkip
, I don't think a single individual could answer the intitial question(s) you asked in your last post.

Our sexuality, is embedded within us, and effected by a great deal of different things. I don't believe two people would be the same. That said, I am not sure that when it appears a couple or individual is risking all for sex - that they are really risking it for sex, but I believe there is probably a deeper reason than sex.

I also think Medievalist has a very good point. Male virgins have existed throughout time and do today, while waiting for that special person.

I find my suspension of disbelief is pushed to the limits with all the Rakes and Tons that appear to have no trouble finding willing bed partners from all classes of women in some Historicals.

I recently read The Crimson Petal and the White by Michel Faber. In it there is a devoutly religious, handsome man, who struggles with his sexuality in a believable way during the Victorian years – and is mocked for it by his brother who has no trouble visiting prostitutes. I found nothing about the virgin fellow that suspended my belief while reading the story, and actually thought that the writer possibly captured the torture that could possibly go with choosing to stay celebrate despite all the sexual feelings he had for a woman and opportunity he had to give in to his desire.
 
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CoriSCapnSkip

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Kewl. I think a lot of my issues are with both character and plot--that an individual would do one thing under one set of circumstances and not another and it depends on the circumstances in which he is placed, and of course I have not so much a plot as parts of one which could be connected in any number of ways.