Vampire Lore: Must have, cliche', etc. for a Reader

Darzian said:

Hmmmmm......perhaps if everything in this thread is taken into account we may end up with something very unvampirish. It'd likely be a new mythical creature.

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*GASP!* The horrors!

I think if we took everything in this thread into account, we'd end up creating the Unbeatable Monster from AW Hell. It couldn't have an supernatural powers that weren't scientifically explainable, but at the same time, you couldn't explain its exsistence using science. It would burn up in the sun, but only if it forgot to chomp down a humanburger the night before. It would have crazy lecherous tendencies, but would see humans as basically a foodsource. It would have a secret hoard of cash somewhere. It would be superhot, but at the same time (maybe in sunlight?) it would be green and fuzzy. Plus holy relics wouldn't have any effect, stakes are negligible, and it's apparently addicted to our blood.

Apparently sporks would be the only plausible weapon, but since it's so superpowerful and all, it would probably go on a spork-smashing raid and destroy all threats to its power.

OMG, WHAT HAVE WE CREATED?!

We'd never be able to kill the thing off! It would just go around sucking up people until the world came to an end! AHHHH! I'm with dgiharris. Let's get the heck out of dodge!! RUN FOR YOUR LIVES!

But since we just made it up, it would probably be considered mythical in another 200 years or so.

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meh, I'd be okay with that. Some historian would trace it back to this thread and give everyone posted here credit. We'd have a one-liner in some future kid's history textbook.

(whoa. Try wrapping your head around that last sentence @_@)

I tend to mix and match my vampire lore truthfully.

Like in my WIP, the sun doesn't kill vampires, but it does make them very, very weak.

Wooden stakes--or makeshift wooden stakes--kill them.

However, the thing that kills them the quickest is metal, like a sword or something like that.

My vampires do drink blood, and they do kill people.





However, most of the vampires are killed by vampire hunters. tongue).

VAMPIRE THREAD, BACK FROM THE DEAD!

Hey, that rhymed--I'm a poet and don't know it.

I'm sick to fucking death of the virus angle. That is all.

As a reader, are there aspects of vampires in fiction that are, for you:

Cliche, overdone, downright annoying?
Pretty much expected, but if absent, wouldn't hinder your ability to suspend your disbelief?
Mandatory? Without this, a vampire simply isn't a vampire, you just can't suspend your disbelief, etc?
Stretching it, but acceptable?
Um, NO, that doesn't even make sense, WTF?

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Not fond of the vampire myth myself. Does not resonate with me or my interests. Of the cannibal monsters, the windigo is much more interesting.

Cliché: the lover.
Expected: hunger for the human flesh
Mandatory: the foe
Stretching: the friend
Nonsense: the string-along lover

scarletpeaches said:

My opinion on crucifixes:

God would allow such an aberration of nature as vampires to exist, but he would decline to use his angels to defeat them and instead invest all his power in two pieces of wood at right angles to each other with a model of a dying man on them?

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No. Remember that "classical" vampires are all derived from some kind of deal with Satan (at least the tale with Christian roots). It's not God investing the power, it's a sort of a natural consequence of so harshly rejecting God.

I find myself having no respect for the teen-angst-riddled predator of popular movie and TV. Even Angel pushed it, though at least that explained the angst.

Oooh, old vampire thread! Shiny! Throwing in my two cents since I wasn't here last time:

thethinker42 said:

As a reader, are there aspects of vampires in fiction that are, for you:

1. Cliche, overdone, downright annoying?
2. Pretty much expected, but if absent, wouldn't hinder your ability to suspend your disbelief?
3. Mandatory? Without this, a vampire simply isn't a vampire, you just can't suspend your disbelief, etc?
4. Stretching it, but acceptable?
5. Um, NO, that doesn't even make sense, WTF?

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1. Vampires who drink animal blood as a substitute for human. It's worse if they call themselves "vegetarian," but many of the stories do this, and I have never bought it. Ever.

2. Crucifixes have become an expected way to fight vampires. I actually prefer them not to be used, because vampires, or some creature like them, are so widespread and so varied in terms of the cultures that feed the myths, that using a specifically Christian weapon against them feels a little insulting.

3. Must kill. MUST kill. At least once. I can accept vampires who have enough self-control to take a little sip here and there from their victims not to kill all of them, if they decide to go that route, but they have to slip up at least once. If you don't at least one death--one human death--on your hands, you are not a vampire.

4. Not bursting into flames in sunlight. It's expected, but enough of the myths have played around with this part of it that it doesn't bug me that much. But it has to be addressed somewhere in the narrative. If they can go out in sunlight, I need to know why/how.

5. No one thing in particular, but any fictional universe that screws around with its own rules will annoy me. Consistency, people. Don't say one thing and then contradict it several chapters/books/episodes later.

Oh! One interesting take on the crucifix is with vampires that look normal. The crucifix forces thenm into their feral appearance. I think that's been "expanded" to include any symbol of faith when there is real faith behind it.

Good idea if Vampires in the story arc derive from some kind of deal with evil.

I guess for me, most of it is cliche, no matter how you "change it up" a little: (e.g. sparkling vampires in the sun, vampires who can cross running water, vampires who can go into churches, etc.)

What I find great about vampire stories is not the cliches so much as the characters and how the material is presented.

Anne Rice took many of the old myths and used them, but, they are not the central "idea" in her story. Her stories are character driven. Give me a unique CHARACTER (in personality, wants, needs, desires) and it honestly doesn't matter what they are: vampire, werewolf and so forth.

CrastersBabies said:

Anne Vampire took many of the old myths and used them, but, they are not the central "idea" in her story. Her stories are character driven. Give me a unique CHARACTER (in personality, wants, needs, desires) and it honestly doesn't matter what they are: vampire, werewolf and so forth.

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I think that's important too.

I adore vampires! Love em to bits and write about them as well.

My personal pet peeve is "noble" vampires. I can't with these sensitive,poetry reading,and hate to drink blood punks.

I like old school vampires with vulnerabilities. I love to read about soul devouring miscreants that like to snuff kittens and would drink the world with no remorse.

I also like for the vampires to have specific personality traits so that each character is distinguishable in his/her way.

I am also quite tired of every vampire being of European origin. Every culture in the world has some sort of vampire myth. If vampires sire others,I'd expect the vampire world to reflect the human one in terms of diversity. I am immediately turned completely off by a vampire story with this kind of stuff UNLESS it is set in Europe during a certain time frame. That I can understand with no problem. But 20th/21st century eras and no Black,Asian,etc vampires at all?

Nope,I don't want.

I can't really tell what vampires I like honestly. I know what vampires I don't like. More so than not, I have a problem with the way a writer does their vampire lore or mythology. I mean I can understand that vampires are supposed to be stronger than humans, but they should still have some weaknesses. I don't mean that only other vampires or werewolves can kill them either. Humans, werewolves, and any other supernatural creature should be able to.

I think it's fine to change some things about the mythology, but don't change it so much it's just completely unbelievable. And like some said earlier, characterization is the most important thing of all. A character should be more than just a vampire(or any other supernatural).

thethinker42 said:

Well, yes, trust scarletpeaches to come wandering in with an opinion.

So now we have one in favor of the holy relic aversion, and one opposed.

Anyone else?

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I too am working on vampires in my stories, and I don't like the aversion to holy relics/holiness either. Mostly because while I write fantasy with vampires, none of it is set on Earth. They are made up worlds.

Although, if holy relics are used, I like some basis behind it. Also I want to know if it is only the Christian relics and faith that is anathema or all religious faiths/relics? As an example, I think Forever Knight had Nick's soul be horribly damaged (rotten/maggoty) from all the killing he did, and in a way, it makes sense then that by murdering he was no longer "with" (the Christian) God, that his soul was lost/rotten. But even so, if I remember the episode correctly, there seemed to be some hope yet for him. (But that gets into Christian theology and we'll leave it at that.)

So, I'm a Depends ;-) Depends on how it is used.

Jodi

I like originality in my own vampires--but in vampire fiction in general, if they are the blood-sucking type, they must still have fangs. I don't care how many, but they have to have them. And they must drink blood or a blood-substitute to live (or for some other reason other than whim; it must be a compulsion). And I like the idea they aren't like zombies--that is, one bite doesn't turn you into a vampire, something else must happen, and my favorite something else is blood-exchange. But beyond that, I like to see what the author comes up with.

However, I love detailed vampire societies. Vampires should have their own societal rules and the like just as any human culture has. While I haven't really seen a lack of it, some have few or only generic touches in this regard and that throws me off. It doesn't feel believable.

Jodi