Dealing with a difficult client--advice needed

starrykitten

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I'm dealing with something that's probably very familiar to many but unfortunately isn't familiar to me. I really think this guy is incredibly clueless and not dishonest, but I'm still trying to figure out what to do. Sorry for the long explanation, but I hope somebody can help.

I recently responded to an ad for an individual who was starting an informative website. He said he already had done the research but needed a writer to turn that research into a certain number of articles. He quoted a flat fee for the whole thing.

He ended up picking me for the job. We exchanged a few emails and I got the sense that he wasn't experienced with anything like this, but I was fine with that. (I say this because he seemed to just kind of want to restate his vision for the website a lot without actually giving more details about the assignment, and I kind of felt like that was a waste of my time but figured I should establish that rapport.) A week went by and I hadn't heard from him, but then he wrote again and said he'd been sick but was ready to go now.

So then he started talking again about the vision of the site and a lot of really general stuff beyond what my role was. He said there were 2 other writers who'd be writing, but he clearly hadn't given any thought to how he was going to divide up the work or even ensure that 2 writers didn't each write the same piece. He mentioned advertisers, which made me nervous because I was starting to worry that my pay was contingent on advertising and not on his initial advertised rate. He said something about me going ahead and getting started, though I had no idea what I was supposed to do and no idea about my pay.

I wrote back, still being very positive, but I asked for clarification and also brought up the issue of dividing tasks among writers. I brought up the issue of pay as well.

A few hours later, I got another email from him. I'd been at my day job and hadn't responded. Though it had only been a few hours, he thought he should call me and talk about "the direction of the site" since he hadn't heard from me.

I wrote back and said I couldn't talk since I was at work but I did answer his question about my rate. He'd sent me a few text files of his rough drafts of articles that he wanted me to clean up. I gave him my rate per piece for doing that work and said my rate would change if I had to write from scratch or do my own research. I also said if my first task was to clean up all the files he'd sent, I'd do it ASAP but wanted to know if he had a deadline in mind.

He wrote back that my rate and everything else sounded fine. But then he sent me this whole garbled list of information he wanted in the first article, which was clearly a different task than simply cleaning up his article.

Without even directly answering the question of deadlines, he said "send this piece to me tomorrow and then we can start talking about the next one."

I don't think he's realizing that he's making this whole thing much more complicated than it's worth my time to do. I think he just has this grand vision for the site and assumes that I'm willing and able to give it as much time as he does.

What I can't figure out is if I should a) grit my teeth and do the best I can, b) Somehow establish firm policies and boundaries, or c) Tell him that this isn't going to work out. I don't need this money in order to live, thankfully, and he's not an editor or someone that's likely to be professionally advantageous. But the money would be good, and if there is some way of firmly but kindly teaching/showing this guy how to work with a writer, that'd be ok. As for the quitting option, I'm leaning towards it right now but not sure exactly how I'd tell him that in a way that's nice but somewhat honest. I suppose there's a fourth option, which is to tell him nicely but in great detail to get in touch with me when he's actually ready for me.

So, what would you do in a case like this?
 

Skyraven

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well, I would ask for all the details in a contract since you want to make it absolutely clear of what he would like. Make sure when you send the email, you let him know that you want to make this work for him, because you want to follow his lead. If you get a contract from him detailing the works, rights, and pay rate along with an idea of how long the job would take, then go for it. If he hedges on the contract, you might want to move on before you get burned. That's just me.
 

CatMuse33

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I wouldn't bother. Honestly. He sounds like the client I just dumped.... utterly confused, clueless, and not sure what he needs. Chances are he doesn't have funding for the site and will "flake" on paying you, too.

It's not worth your time and it doesn't sound like this guy is going to go far with his business (in other words, he's not a contact you're going to want in order to lead to "bigger and better things.")

One of my pet peeves and the biggest red flag to me is that he e-mailed you a second time when you didn't reply to an e-mail within only a few hours. And not to answer your questions, presumably, but just to repeat himself about the "direction of the site".

Sure, you COULD try to teach him to work with writers, and he could turn into a great client...but why? Let him take a business course or read a book. I mean, if you're feeling charitable I'm not going to tell you NOT to help a fellow business owner... but it seems to me you could devote your time to better causes if you're looking to do a good deed. :)

I was speaking with a fellow AW writer today about what I now call "the stomach test." When I speak with potential new clients and I feel a little queasy... I'll weigh the factors and decide to give it a chance or not. If I feel this sick *pit* in my stomach (I'm sure you know what I mean) I tell them "thanks but no thanks."

If I have no bad feeling, but a sense of excitement, I move forward full throttle.

What's your stomach telling you?

BTW, this guy operates so much like my former client, I'm tempted to ask what the Web site is to see if it's the same guy!!

Dawn
 

Skyraven

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Dawn you're so funny. But right! I remember you writing about dropping that former client. So how are you feeling? Date's getting close!
 

CatMuse33

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Starrykitten,

And just today, I came across this link to a blog post about boundaries and 'challenging' clients. I didn't write it. (wish I did!) LOL

Hope it helps you w/ another perspective on the matter...

http://www.bizchicksrule.com/handling-client-challenges/


Of course, I still believe the best way to avoid a bad client is to not take them on in the first place, if you have hints of trouble beforehand. Sometimes, these things catch us blindsided, so you're fortunate that you're *already* having doubts.

Dawn
 

L M Ashton

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I always charge difficult clients a premium. Call it combat pay. If they're not willing to pay me enough to make it worth my while, then I won't work with them. :)

IF you decide to work with him (big if), I would very clearly outline for this type of work, I charge this much, for this type of work, I charge this much (with explanations of what editing consists of vs. proofreading vs. writing from scratch). Make it absolutely clear so that it would take an idiot to misunderstand. Then, if I thought there was any doubt, as the work came in, I would also clearly state something like "given what you've stated you need for this piece, this is x job. Do you approve?" or something like that to make sure I've got everything in writing so there can be no arguments later when the higher bill comes in.
 

starrykitten

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Thanks for the great replies!

I sent a very detailed email last night establishing exactly what I would need in order to continue. I detailed exactly what my concerns were about his professionalism and explained that while he was free to pursue other writers, other writers weren't likely to be satisfied with the assignment either. I don't know if I'll hear back or not, but I'm not really concerned.

In the learning-from-the-past column, today I got an email discussing a well-paying potential project, and in my initial contact back I specified what sort of contract I would need before beginning any work.
 

CatMuse33

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LM,
Have you had success with the combat pay? I always find that those sort of clients who are trouble also want everything at a bargain and balk at the lower rates. But that's also a good way to get rid of them. I love saying, "I'm sorry, much as I'd like to work with you, I don't think my services are within your budget right now." (I've only used that line twice!)

Dawn
 

WildScribe

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The combat pay backfired on me once. I had a clueless, annoying potential client, so I told her that I charge $50 an hour for editing. She announced that with my skill she was getting a bargain, and on we went.

One Friday NIGHT I sent my computer to my cousin to have a problem fixed. I got on early Saturday morning and found FIVE emails from her. She was ready to panic because I hadn't replied. We stopped working together after a little talk about boundaries.
 

L M Ashton

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CatMuse, yup. It weeds out the worst clients and makes it so the ones who are willing to pay it earn me enough that it's a bit less stressful. Ironically enough.

It's all about deciding what would make the job worth it. If it's not worth it, don't do it. If you can make it worth it, why not?
 

cress8

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I agree with most of the rest--if you think there are distinct advantages here that you couldn't get elsewhere pretty soon, then you could try to negotiate (with clear contracts and firm boundaries, of course). That said, I must say my gut instinct is that this guy is so clueless about what it takes to run a successful business that there's no way he will offer you any advantages over other clients. My instinct is to scrap him now. If you're going to be putting in hard work with little (or delayed) pay, I'd say it's better to do spend those efforts cultivating better, more reliable clients.
 

herdon

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My advice: Get the money up front. Charge him for x hours, get the money, work on x hours, repeat.

When I do freelance programming, I always get some money up front. Either I get 1/2 up front and 1/2 at the end or 1/3 up front, 1/3 in the middle, 1/3 at the end.