"Graphic/Edgy" content pondering for WIP

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Entropy Perk

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The bracket I think I'm going for, is older YA, so keep that in mind, with any back and forth we end up with. What I have in mind, the closest other types of books I can come up with, is a bit of a mish-mash of Bordertown/Holly Black's Valiant/Rob Thortons's Moonlight.

I've been doing some back and forth chatting with an old pal, going back some 22 years. He does a lot of urban writing, pretty hard stuff, detailing his time as a bike messenger in SF in the mid 90's (which, if you know anything about that scene, means you know how hardcore those people were- No, he didn't know Puck and says, he wouldn't have wanted to) and what his life was like when he left that. He's chided me, on being too effete, when it comes to how am I trying to convey. He reminds me, I spent my time as a bit of a Riot Grrrl, how we used to roll as teens in a PNW college town and he says, "write it as you know it".

Yeah, yeah....but in YA (as my protagonists are teens, I can't see how it can be for any other market), there are limits as to how and what an author can throw down. By that, I mean, even if a scene or event is critical to plot point or character development, I would imagine an editor would look twice as descriptive manipulative sex is going on (needs to be so, to get the hows and whats of that pivotal relationship), under the influence of several drugs, while a pack of skate boys burns down the house next door.

I know, I should write the book as I see it and then worry about that sort of thing later. To just get it out on paper/harddrive, but I have limited time per day to write and I want to make the most of it. Putting down scene's that shouldn't actually be in a marketable book for the genre, seems wasteful of time and will be a nightmare to edit back out.

Then I think of non-fantasy/paranormal YA books, Looking for Alaska, 13 Reasons Why, Speak and there is quite graphic content, in some cases, repeatedly, and it passed with approval by the editor. Different sub-genre, and often, to my eye, a different conclusion for the reader to come to, but still...

So really, I am torn as to telling it as I see it, or seeing it and being more circumspect in how I show it.

Thoughts, opinions, advice from those YA published...whatever you want to toss my way..
 

Cassidy

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in YA (as my protagonists are teens, I can't see how it can be for any other market),

I'm not trying to talk you out of writing it as YA at all (I love YA and write YA and don't think there's much that is off limits for YA), but there's tons of good adult novels with teen protagonists. I mean, tons. Check out Lullabies for Little Criminals, or The Torn Skirt, or How the Light Gets In, or... well, I can think of way too many to list. I think you could totally write this one for adults or teens. Good luck with it!
 

Entropy Perk

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RE: The Link- Yup Shady, thats what I was trying to say. Even in the '80's, hanging out all day, getting high, making deals, scoring, sex, was being done. I know its reality, I know (from my time as a bookshop owner and my own teenhood) what is drawing the avid teen reader. I know if they don't find it in YA, they head straight to the adult books to find what clicks their buttons there.

What I have a hard time with, is an editor picking it up, despite it. A lot of the books you mention in your other post (which rocked), seem to say such things are "bad". I'm not spinning that in mine. It ends up actually being a damn good thing they are like that, because it means they will do, what others will not, or cannot, in order to finish what needs finishing.

I think I am self-prejudicing and channeling some Banned Book group's idiotic stances on what is appropriate or not.
 

Danthia

A teen protag does not make it a teen novel. The Lovely Bones has a teen protag for instance. YA has more to do with voice and topics that teens relate to than graphic content.

With so few topics off limits to kids these days, I think voice and pacing are the two defining factors in YA fiction. Do you have a strong YA voice and fast-paced novel? If yes, then write away and tell the story you want to tell.

Your agent will help you adjust if need be to sway editors, and your editor wil have ideas on where to best place the book anyway. I wrote what I felt was a fantasy aimed at 14+, but my editor and all the powers that be at her house felt it was perfect MG, so we tweaked the more "adult" stuff and now it's going to be markerted at 10-14 aged readers. The story didn't change at all, just a few small cosmetic stuff.

Bottom line, editing content is easy. Finding writers with strong voices and fresh ideas who write well and know how to tell a story isn't. Write the best book you can and don't sweat the small stuff.
 

Momento Mori

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in YA (as my protagonists are teens, I can't see how it can be for any other market), there are limits as to how and what an author can throw down. By that, I mean, even if a scene or event is critical to plot point or character development, I would imagine an editor would look twice as descriptive manipulative sex is going on (needs to be so, to get the hows and whats of that pivotal relationship), under the influence of several drugs, while a pack of skate boys burns down the house next door.

To echo Cassidy and Danthia, teen protagonists don't automatically make for a YA novel. I know a couple of novelists who've written books with teen protagonists and who had endless discussions with the marketing departments of their publishers over the decision of whether their book was YA or adult or whether it was worth doing it as a crossover with two different covers.

At the end of the day (to use the cliche), the decision gets taken by the marketing department rather than the editor, so it's better to just focus on writing the story as you want to tell it. From what you say, I think you're better off writing the scenes you describe and then reviewing them in the round once the manuscript is finished to assess how necessary they are to tell the story and if they need to be geared up or toned down accordingly.

If it's any help, there is a lot of really dark YA fiction out there right now, including Noel Clarke's novelisation of his film Kidulthood, which is quite brutal in places. It might also be worth checking out the June (?) edition of Locus which featured YA fantasy, some of which was really out there in terms of incest, underage sex - the whole ten yards.

Entropy Perk:
I know, I should write the book as I see it and then worry about that sort of thing later. To just get it out on paper/harddrive, but I have limited time per day to write and I want to make the most of it. Putting down scene's that shouldn't actually be in a marketable book for the genre, seems wasteful of time and will be a nightmare to edit back out.

I sympathise with you on this. I'm similarly short on personal time to write and it makes me think hard about whether or not a scene is needed to write. However, unless you're writing this to a set deadline from a publisher/agent (and if you are, I hope you know it's okay for me to dislike you for that), I think it's better to take your time and get it all down first because it's easier to edit things that are actually on the page, than it is to create completely new scenes that you realise are needed, but which you then have to create from scratch, slot in and then edit and re-edit to make sure the whole manuscript hangs together.

MM
 

Entropy Perk

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Thanks! Yeah, I've been having a think, and really, I'll write it how I see it and let agents/editor's work out where it really fits. Once I get it whipped into shape and after some beta readers give me an opinion. I think I'll be better set as to what sort of places to query on it.

If, its not utter tripe, despite my best intent...which is more than possible.
 
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