Just got a $2500 deal- feel really miserable

I can empathize with the disappointment (who wouldn't want a big advance) but man, I'm still jealous.

Congrats on the deal.

Who knows, maybe you can sell out your advance and make those royalties. It can be done.

If nothing else, it's a great stepping stone to your next book.

And yeah, I am also jealous.

Don't worry, be happy

Seriously, phoenixking, you should be happy. You are experiencing what 99% of Americans (I don't have statistics for Canadians, sorry never will. Being on the bookstore. What is the initial print run, by the way?

The money? It's a by-product. The fame? Who cares! It's not like you write for those two, do you?

If your novel fares well, you'll have a pretty good chance for another book and so on.

So, don't worry, just be happy!

ED

Well done on selling the book! Try not to be too disappointed by the deal - at least your book was good enough to both get an agent and get published. There's so many authors who had small deals to begin with but kept writing and became bestsellers (like Chuck Palahniuk and Lionel Shriver - two of my favourite authors) so don't take it as an insult to your writing.

I understand your disappointment. What does your agent say? When there was interest from this publisher, did he attempt an auction? Average advances for a first book (MMPB) usually range between $4000 and $6000, but it could be different for YA. Still, an advance of any kind is a step up from nothing. My first advance was only $500 with a small press, then my epubbed book got a goose egg for an advance. I think you're pretty darn lucky to be getting $2500, and it's just the first book. Does the contract include a deal for book two?

You have an offer from a "BIG PUBLISHER." Key words IMO. Depending on your contract, who knows how far the small advance may take you? Good job--Congratulations!

Hmm. Let's see.

You're being published.

You're getting a $2500 advance.

You're getting 9% royalties.

And you're disappointed.

*checks his own status: no agent, no publisher, no nothing*

Yeah, I can see where you'd be disappointed.

Large advances aren't always a good thing. If you got $10,000, but never earned your publisher that money in sales, then it's less likely a second book of yours is going to get a similar advance or they might not bet on you at all.

Instead, $2500 is a low advance, but you have a bigger opportunity to outsell that advance and make a your money on royalties. You outsell your advance, you get a bigger one the next time around.

phoenixking said:

I'm extremely grateful for the offer. It was almost impossible to get it because the editor asked for THREE revisions, the elimination of a CHARACTER and much worse. That's one of the reasons for my disappointment. I did everything they said.

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It's common for an editor to ask for revisions. Editors edit. Hopefully after reviewing the suggested changes, you will be able to see where it makes your story stronger.

phoenixking said:

I haven'y complained to my agent and I never will. My impression on her so far is that it's easy to work with me and I intend to keep it that way.

Hmmm. There was no mention of an auction. However, the publisher did try to do something about discount royalties, which my agent successfully countered and got me a 9% royalty on no matter what way the publisher sold the books. That took nearly a fortnight to settle.

Book 2 is just begun. It is significantly longer than Book 1 (around 160K words projected). I needed to limit the size of Book 1 to make it stand alone, and also because it was my first novel and agents run away from larger YA books.

The contract does not mention Book 2. I was told that it is a bad idea to do that, due to royalties generally coming in after Book 2 is sold, so I said no to that. I am free to submit book 2 whenever I like, assuming Book 1 sells.

BTW, they changed the name, and are considering changing it again. The cover is all right though.

I guess I should have expected less and be more grateful.

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It's also common for the name to change. That often happens as well.

And don't be afraid to discuss things with your agent. You can have discussions without being difficult or hard to work with. Afterall, her paycheck comes from selling your book(s).

Keep in mind the advance may not be a reflection on your work as much as the fact that you are a new writer with a YA book. Maybe they do this to all the new YA folks.
At least you proved you've got the guts to make changes and can work with them. Now go post in goals and accomplishments.

Shadow_Ferret said:

Hmm. Let's see.

You're being published.

You're getting a $2500 advance.

You're getting 9% royalties.

And you're disappointed.

*checks his own status: no agent, no publisher, no nothing*

Yeah, I can see where you'd be disappointed.

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Any space in your boat for me?

First of all congratulations!

Second of all, titles are changed all the time. I would know. That's why I don't even bother naming things anymore until the very end and even then I expect them to change it.

Third of all you mentioned not earning out royalties because that happens all the time, but that isn't exactly accurate. You have an advantage with a lower advance to actually earn out and earn royalties on top of that because you have to sell far fewer books to do so. You aren't in the exact same position as an author who gets a larger advance, in this way you have the upper hand.

Fourth, "you've never complained to your agent and you never will"? Well then why the heck do you have an agent? The point of an agent aside from just selling your work is to be your go between when you have issues with your publisher. She is the one you talk to about not being satisfied with say your cover or whatever. It is their job to take care of you. Your agent is a business partner not a friend. Yes you don't want to be a diva but you should be able to voice your concerns and offer your opinion. You should be told how the sale went down and ask her why you got such a low advance. None of these are offensive questions, they are mature, grown up, professional questions. Wanting to be unobtrusive because you want your agent to like you is childish and not helpful to your career (which in turn is not helpful to the agent's career. If there is something going down with a publisher that you really feel is wrong for your book, and you don't tell your agent who could possibly fix it, then not only you but your agent looses out. Yes I am sure she would appreciate that). Truly, you aren't helping yourself just because you want your agent to think of you as easy going.

I understand why you are disappointed. I would be too. Very. But . . . this is the first step. It isn't the be all and end all, as you write more and sell more things will improve. It's a slow moving business and heck at least you have your foot in the door.

And don't knock those royalties . . . you might very well find yourself doing quite nicely . . . JK Rowling sold her first book for 2500 pounds (around I guess $5000). Twice as much as yours, but still, not considered large by any stretch of the imagination . . . and she did okay . . .

J.K. Rowling's initial advance from Bloomsbury for the first Harry Potter book was less than $15,000.

Toothpaste said:

JK Rowling sold her first book for 2500 pounds (around I guess $5000)

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I've heard this, too, but the best-sourced figure I've heard is "less than 10,000 pounds" which would have been less than $15,000 in 1996.

Congratulations! If this contract is only for North American rights, there's still the possibility of foreign sales. Did your agent say whether this is a typical deal offered by this publisher/ this editor?

Congrats.

It's good to know others experiences so thanks for sharing. This board certainly helps focus my expectations.

You know, it really depends on the publisher. I've heard of one big publishing house that starts advances at 1,000 and goes up (albeit very slowly). So 2500 is not scrapings. It's not amazing but it's not awful either.

But!! 9% royalties? That is really good. I mean it. Especially on MMPB. So you're not getting as much up front - you're going to sell through like cake, and your royalties are going to be terrific.

Most importantly, this is a foot in the door that can lead to other sales.

katiemac said:

Large advances aren't always a good thing. If you got $10,000, but never earned your publisher that money in sales, then it's less likely a second book of yours is going to get a similar advance or they might not bet on you at all.

Instead, $2500 is a low advance, but you have a bigger opportunity to outsell that advance and make a your money on royalties. You outsell your advance, you get a bigger one the next time around.

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I was going to make this same point.

katiemac said:

Large advances aren't always a good thing. If you got $10,000, but never earned your publisher that money in sales, then it's less likely a second book of yours is going to get a similar advance or they might not bet on you at all.

Instead, $2500 is a low advance, but you have a bigger opportunity to outsell that advance and make a your money on royalties. You outsell your advance, you get a bigger one the next time around.

Click to expand...

This is what I've heard also, which makes me think, while a large advance may give you more instant gratification, a small advance will make a career more likely. I'd rather have the career, truth be told.

Anyway, phoenixking, I'm sorry you are disappointed. I was envious of you until you said they wanted you to get rid of a character. That would break my heart (were it a character I liked). But you choose your battles, yeah? It's tough to do, sometimes.

Advance is just that: an advance. The bigger the number, the higher the expectation and if it doesn't earn out, it won't look good for the publisher (or the author). True, the more you get, the more likely the publisher would push -- since they will like to make their money back. Still, don't let the size of an advance burden you. The truth is, you're getting published by a big publisher. That's a great first step. And as someone else said, Rowling only got £2500 for her first book -- it wasn't until Scholastic wanted the N.A. rights that the book actually took off. The idea is to get the book out and see what happens.

Yeah, we all want to make 7 figures and have the bragging right to go with it. But let's focus on a "career" and not just a deal. In fact, I'd say you're doing well given you've only worked on it for 2 years. Many people have worked on their books for much longer and they're still trying to find an agent.

If you're truly not happy, then tell your agent. That's what agents are for.

The Dundurn Group, in Canada, provides an advance of $250. But Canada is a much smaller market (3,000 sales = Canadian bestseller, reportedly).
Honestly, I can see why you're disappointed, and it doesn't sound as if you were expecting to get rich from one sale, or anything. I think you should consider talking it over with your agent - I mean, the advance is where she makes her money, right? Frame it as asking how you can work with her to get a higher advance next time.
-Barbara

phoenixking said:

I just got an offer from a big publisher, who is offering me a deal for my 70K fantasy YA book. He said he'd give me an advance of $2500, with 9% royalties.

He's only putting it out in paperback.

The deal was negotiated by my wonderful agent.

Considering that I spent 2 years writing and editing this MS, I really expected somewhere in the $5000-$10 000 advance range. I'm aware that most writers don't earn much from royalties, so no expectations there.



BTW, I've been following the threads here for the last 3 yrs, but only felt the need to register and post today.

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JK Rowling only got a couple of thousand pounds advance for her first Harry Potter book and look how successful she became. Instead of being upset you didn't get a large advance, turn your attention onto marketing now. Get your book out there so you can sell as many copies as you can.

Excellent work, phoenixking. Congratulations.

But I can sympathize with how you must feel, that $2,500 sitting there in your bank account, taunting you, mocking you, snickering to the other money about how you got dissed.

Tell you what we'll do. I'll PM you my PayPal info. You send me that discourteous $2500, and I'll punish it. It'll be debased, frittered away on Scotch whiskey, beef jerky, pornography, and gasoline.

You shouldn't have to put up with it for another minute, says I!

And again, congratulations.