Re: update
There is another PA author who was reviewed by Library Journal. She is a regular at mindsight also.
There is another PA author who was reviewed by Library Journal. She is a regular at mindsight also.
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RebelWriter
Re: update
If they sent review copies out all over the place, and also press releases. Why don't they prove it? I'd like to see it and I know you would. Tell us PA where they are, we can check it out. You lie. What magazines, reviewers, sites, newspapers, who? Show us. You keep it silent, because you know there isn't anything to show. If you are right prove it. Not just one or two, but lots. Say you are right we are wrong. Prove it!
They can't do it. But they will continuously lie about it. Still biting the hand that feeds them. Any way to prove how many books are sold and how much is really due the writers? Some of the printers wont tell the writers, covering the publishers tail.
Even on the online stores, most have no cover and no synopsis for readers to decide if they want it or not. I know what I want for the holidays this year. ....
If they sent review copies out all over the place, and also press releases. Why don't they prove it? I'd like to see it and I know you would. Tell us PA where they are, we can check it out. You lie. What magazines, reviewers, sites, newspapers, who? Show us. You keep it silent, because you know there isn't anything to show. If you are right prove it. Not just one or two, but lots. Say you are right we are wrong. Prove it!
They can't do it. But they will continuously lie about it. Still biting the hand that feeds them. Any way to prove how many books are sold and how much is really due the writers? Some of the printers wont tell the writers, covering the publishers tail.
Even on the online stores, most have no cover and no synopsis for readers to decide if they want it or not. I know what I want for the holidays this year. ....
James D Macdonald
Library Journal
Okay, decided to go looking. In addition to Nancy Mehl (reviewed April 2002):
Nancy Marie, When You Wish Upon A Star, reviewed April 2002.
(I believe that Ms. Marie wasn't 100% satisfied with the job that PA did on her book.)
<hr />
Found something interesting in my search: https://cs.ala.org/publicprograms/authorlibrary/publist.cfm
Check to see which publisher won't supply books for a booksale at a library in conjunction with an author visit.
Okay, decided to go looking. In addition to Nancy Mehl (reviewed April 2002):
Nancy Marie, When You Wish Upon A Star, reviewed April 2002.
(I believe that Ms. Marie wasn't 100% satisfied with the job that PA did on her book.)
<hr />
Found something interesting in my search: https://cs.ala.org/publicprograms/authorlibrary/publist.cfm
Check to see which publisher won't supply books for a booksale at a library in conjunction with an author visit.
marky48
Re: Library Journal
Exceptions never make the rule. The online presentations of PA books are abyssmal. When I mentioned that to Todd Hunter at mindsight he said that it "doesn't matter." He also said that placement in bookstores didn't matter. I agree: Nothing they do will matter with a PA product.
For many PA people "Midwest Book Reviews" is helping them appear legitimate. That's Laurel Johnson of Lincoln, NB. Part of the PA group. She's going with 1st books next time so she's moved on. Get the idea?
Exceptions never make the rule. The online presentations of PA books are abyssmal. When I mentioned that to Todd Hunter at mindsight he said that it "doesn't matter." He also said that placement in bookstores didn't matter. I agree: Nothing they do will matter with a PA product.
For many PA people "Midwest Book Reviews" is helping them appear legitimate. That's Laurel Johnson of Lincoln, NB. Part of the PA group. She's going with 1st books next time so she's moved on. Get the idea?
James D Macdonald
Re: Library Journal
0.06% of PA books got reviewed by Library Journal.
As HapiSofi pointed out about bookstore shelving, this is screaming proof that PA books don't get major reviews. Being able to point to one or two, eighteen months ago, might mislead the people who ought to know better. PA should have thousands of Library Journal, Booklist, Publishers Weekly, and Kirkus reviews by now -- if they were a traditional publisher.
The Midwest Book Review has its place. Its mission is to review small-press and self-published works. The reviews it gives are generally happy reviews, its reviewers are not professional reviewers. (If you wanted to be a Midwest Book Review reviewer and get free books thereby, all you have to do is sign up.) Some of the reviewers seem to do good business reselling their review copies used on Amazon.
If the best or only review you get is the Midwest Book Review, my friends, that's sad.
0.06% of PA books got reviewed by Library Journal.
As HapiSofi pointed out about bookstore shelving, this is screaming proof that PA books don't get major reviews. Being able to point to one or two, eighteen months ago, might mislead the people who ought to know better. PA should have thousands of Library Journal, Booklist, Publishers Weekly, and Kirkus reviews by now -- if they were a traditional publisher.
The Midwest Book Review has its place. Its mission is to review small-press and self-published works. The reviews it gives are generally happy reviews, its reviewers are not professional reviewers. (If you wanted to be a Midwest Book Review reviewer and get free books thereby, all you have to do is sign up.) Some of the reviewers seem to do good business reselling their review copies used on Amazon.
If the best or only review you get is the Midwest Book Review, my friends, that's sad.
marky48
Re: Library Journal
Interesting. Even iUniverse will supply books. PA won't.
/cs.ala.org/publicprogram...cfm?ID=108
Interesting. Even iUniverse will supply books. PA won't.
/cs.ala.org/publicprogram...cfm?ID=108
DaveKuzminski
Dare for Popper20
Tough, huh, Popper20? No problem, I'll give you some more time.
Hey, maybe you're holding off on revealing the title and ISBN until Halloween to scare us? Now that would be a great trick.
Tough, huh, Popper20? No problem, I'll give you some more time.
Hey, maybe you're holding off on revealing the title and ISBN until Halloween to scare us? Now that would be a great trick.
popper20
ALL PUBLISHAMERICA TITLES ARE IN LIBRARY OF CONGRESS
Hold on now; I can only catch one foul ball at a time. But this is too easy. You are all, just, well, again, this is just too easy! Kuzminski, you're not in our league. Too simple. Hapi and Marky, please don't reply with made up baloney. Now let's address the LoC. Next lesson will be on bookstore stocking!
Hapi,
>>About the Library of Congress refusing to accept PA's
>>books? No mistake there. They don't accept them.
Yes, mistake there. Big mistake there. You're stooping to Victoria's level, pouting and whining about something you obviously know nothing about.
You're comparing apples and oranges. Here's the Library of Congress explaining the difference, at cip.loc.gov/cip/cipfaq.html#relate:
"How does the Cataloging in Publication (CIP) program relate to Copyright?
There is no relationship between the CIP program and Copyright registration. The principal intention of copyright records is to document the intellectual or creative ownership of a work. The principal intention of a CIP record is to describe the bibliographic characteristics of a work and thereby facilitate access to it in library catalogs.
For more information concerning the Copyright Office, go to www.loc.gov/copyright/. To search copyright records, go to www.loc.gov/copyright/search/."
Now, kiddies, listen carefully. All you have to do is:
1 - Go to that search page.
2 - Look for PublishAmerica titles or authors.
3 - You will find them there.
4 - Now count them.
5 - There should be 5,000 of them!
Is that simple enough for you? You could seriously boost your credibility joining the ice cream conspiracy guys.
Again, common knowledege, check facts, apologize, etc.
Hold on now; I can only catch one foul ball at a time. But this is too easy. You are all, just, well, again, this is just too easy! Kuzminski, you're not in our league. Too simple. Hapi and Marky, please don't reply with made up baloney. Now let's address the LoC. Next lesson will be on bookstore stocking!
Hapi,
>>About the Library of Congress refusing to accept PA's
>>books? No mistake there. They don't accept them.
Yes, mistake there. Big mistake there. You're stooping to Victoria's level, pouting and whining about something you obviously know nothing about.
You're comparing apples and oranges. Here's the Library of Congress explaining the difference, at cip.loc.gov/cip/cipfaq.html#relate:
"How does the Cataloging in Publication (CIP) program relate to Copyright?
There is no relationship between the CIP program and Copyright registration. The principal intention of copyright records is to document the intellectual or creative ownership of a work. The principal intention of a CIP record is to describe the bibliographic characteristics of a work and thereby facilitate access to it in library catalogs.
For more information concerning the Copyright Office, go to www.loc.gov/copyright/. To search copyright records, go to www.loc.gov/copyright/search/."
Now, kiddies, listen carefully. All you have to do is:
1 - Go to that search page.
2 - Look for PublishAmerica titles or authors.
3 - You will find them there.
4 - Now count them.
5 - There should be 5,000 of them!
Is that simple enough for you? You could seriously boost your credibility joining the ice cream conspiracy guys.
Again, common knowledege, check facts, apologize, etc.
marky48
Re: ALL PUBLISHAMERICA TITLES ARE IN LIBRARY OF CONGRESS
Well, Popper you damn near broke the platitude/cliche bank on that one. Hard to stray from the script isn't it?
Like apples do you ?
While it common knowledge that anyone can offically copyright anything with the LOC copyright office for $30, at least it was when I did it last, it is another matter altogether to have them put a copy in the library itself and be cataloged. They just won't accept any old crap with covers for that. How do like those apples?
Well, Popper you damn near broke the platitude/cliche bank on that one. Hard to stray from the script isn't it?
Like apples do you ?
While it common knowledge that anyone can offically copyright anything with the LOC copyright office for $30, at least it was when I did it last, it is another matter altogether to have them put a copy in the library itself and be cataloged. They just won't accept any old crap with covers for that. How do like those apples?
DaveKuzminski
Popper20's credibility
Can't give just one title and ISBN?
That's all you were asked for. Instead, you tried to shift the topic to a discussion that I'm not in your league. Excuse me, but you're the one who's incapable of hitting the ball out of the park. I'd say you struck out. Worse yet, I threw you an easy pitch.
Yes, you're right. We're not in the same league. You're clearly still not ready for little league, let alone anything beyond that.
You should have stuck with the easy question.
Can't give just one title and ISBN?
That's all you were asked for. Instead, you tried to shift the topic to a discussion that I'm not in your league. Excuse me, but you're the one who's incapable of hitting the ball out of the park. I'd say you struck out. Worse yet, I threw you an easy pitch.
Yes, you're right. We're not in the same league. You're clearly still not ready for little league, let alone anything beyond that.
You should have stuck with the easy question.
emeraldcite
Re: Popper20's credibility
popper:
you're pretending the apples are oranges.
i believe the original claim was that PA books were not in the library of congress. X said nothing about copyrights. But thank you for pointing out the obvious with the quote above.
i could photocopy my ass and copyright it, but that doesn't mean the LoC will accept it into the stacks.
popper:
you're pretending the apples are oranges.
Yes, mistake there. Big mistake there. You're stooping to Victoria's level, pouting and whining about something you obviously know nothing about.
You're comparing apples and oranges. Here's the Library of Congress explaining the difference, at cip.loc.gov/cip/cipfaq.html#relate:
"How does the Cataloging in Publication (CIP) program relate to Copyright?
There is no relationship between the CIP program and Copyright registration. The principal intention of copyright records is to document the intellectual or creative ownership of a work. The principal intention of a CIP record is to describe the bibliographic characteristics of a work and thereby facilitate access to it in library catalogs.
i believe the original claim was that PA books were not in the library of congress. X said nothing about copyrights. But thank you for pointing out the obvious with the quote above.
i could photocopy my ass and copyright it, but that doesn't mean the LoC will accept it into the stacks.
marky48
battlechaser
more on loc
catalog.loc.gov/
I did a search (twice) using the above web site using an ISBN from a simple PA book and there were no results found.
Make sure you cover all loose ends before commiting to a deal.
LOC's to my knowledge cost a fee, so unless it comes with the book deal, one will have to pay for separately.
On another note, people should be supporting one another, you yourselves as writers know if your backed into a corner the wolverine in you can inflict insane pain.
A poem from me to you all:
catalog.loc.gov/
I did a search (twice) using the above web site using an ISBN from a simple PA book and there were no results found.
Make sure you cover all loose ends before commiting to a deal.
LOC's to my knowledge cost a fee, so unless it comes with the book deal, one will have to pay for separately.
On another note, people should be supporting one another, you yourselves as writers know if your backed into a corner the wolverine in you can inflict insane pain.
A poem from me to you all:
The Friendship
An open field
with an only tree
held an apple
on a strong branch.
Until one day
a lonely boy set it free
and brought it back
to his homely ranch.
The boy examined
the apple with pride
and found it to be
a great find.
So he polished
the apple’s rough hide
until with friendship
the apple shined.
The shiny apple
was adored by the boy
so he stored it
on the shelf.
And now the boy
is filled with joy
because friendship
shined upon himself.
©2003 Anthony Schmidt
An open field
with an only tree
held an apple
on a strong branch.
Until one day
a lonely boy set it free
and brought it back
to his homely ranch.
The boy examined
the apple with pride
and found it to be
a great find.
So he polished
the apple’s rough hide
until with friendship
the apple shined.
The shiny apple
was adored by the boy
so he stored it
on the shelf.
And now the boy
is filled with joy
because friendship
shined upon himself.
©2003 Anthony Schmidt
marky48
Re: more on loc
Tony, trust me you don't know what you're dealing with here, but correct on the charge. These are real crooks; two-bit yes but crooks nonetheless. We attempt not to pay for anything. Yours won't be there either.
Tony, trust me you don't know what you're dealing with here, but correct on the charge. These are real crooks; two-bit yes but crooks nonetheless. We attempt not to pay for anything. Yours won't be there either.
DaveKuzminski
Another easy pitch for Popper20
Okay, since you're not very good at this, we'll give you another up at bat.
If there are only five unhappy authors who were published by PublishAmerica, then why are there more than five in the poll asking about that in this forum? Could it be that you miscounted? If that's the case, how do we know you counted the other number accurately?
Personally, you better hope that lots of writers don't decide to sign up with PublishAmerica for the two free copies of their book and then not sell any copies to anyone. You could go broke quick, couldn't you?
Okay, since you're not very good at this, we'll give you another up at bat.
If there are only five unhappy authors who were published by PublishAmerica, then why are there more than five in the poll asking about that in this forum? Could it be that you miscounted? If that's the case, how do we know you counted the other number accurately?
Personally, you better hope that lots of writers don't decide to sign up with PublishAmerica for the two free copies of their book and then not sell any copies to anyone. You could go broke quick, couldn't you?
James D Macdonald
Lie: ALL PUBLISHAMERICA TITLES ARE IN LIBRARY OF CONGRESS
Ah, Popper20. You're back. Do I have the pleasure of addressing Mr. Meiners, Mr. Clopper, or someone else?
No one said that PA books weren't copyrighted. They are, at the authors' expense.
PA books, however, are not listed in the Library of Congress.
That's because PublishAmerica is a vanity press.
When PublishAmerica claims that they are not a vanity press, they are lying.
When PublishAmerica claims that they are a traditional press, they are lying.
As long as you're here, Popper, you've been asked a good number of specific questions. Would you like to try answering them?
Here's another: Who's Ani-Michelle, anyway?
Ah, Popper20. You're back. Do I have the pleasure of addressing Mr. Meiners, Mr. Clopper, or someone else?
No one said that PA books weren't copyrighted. They are, at the authors' expense.
PA books, however, are not listed in the Library of Congress.
That's because PublishAmerica is a vanity press.
When PublishAmerica claims that they are not a vanity press, they are lying.
When PublishAmerica claims that they are a traditional press, they are lying.
As long as you're here, Popper, you've been asked a good number of specific questions. Would you like to try answering them?
Here's another: Who's Ani-Michelle, anyway?
HapiSofi
Re: ALL PUBLISHAMERICA TITLES ARE IN LIBRARY OF CONGRESS
Popper, I raise my little finger in your general direction. I've been a publishing pro a lot longer than you've been a bunco-steerer for vanity presses.
You'd like to dismiss me because you can't argue with my point: that your citation of a few copies of a few PA titles in your local bookstore proves that PA doesn't get bookstore distribution. Given the number of general-interest titles PA "publishes", if it had any kind of bookstore distribution deal your local stores ought to have multiple copies of hundreds of titles. Eight copies of five titles proves you've got nothing of the sort.
Let's rehearse our main points:
1. PublishAmerica is a POD vanity press that happens to have an exceptionally slick line of blarney.
2. PublishAmerica doesn't get bookstore distribution. It lies about that to its authors. The tiny scattering of PA titles that do get into bookstores do so solely on account of their authors' efforts. PA does jack.
3. PublishAmerica's titles aren't listed by the Library of Congress because it's a POD vanity press. 'Nuff said.
4. You're here for two reasons: to try to bully PA's critics into silence, and to lie about these points.
And by the way, I used to prepare copyright pages for a biggish trade publisher, and I know more about CIP data and copyright registration than you're ever going to know this side of an intensive course. You'll do yourself less harm if you knock off that line of BS right now.
Popper, I raise my little finger in your general direction. I've been a publishing pro a lot longer than you've been a bunco-steerer for vanity presses.
You'd like to dismiss me because you can't argue with my point: that your citation of a few copies of a few PA titles in your local bookstore proves that PA doesn't get bookstore distribution. Given the number of general-interest titles PA "publishes", if it had any kind of bookstore distribution deal your local stores ought to have multiple copies of hundreds of titles. Eight copies of five titles proves you've got nothing of the sort.
Let's rehearse our main points:
1. PublishAmerica is a POD vanity press that happens to have an exceptionally slick line of blarney.
2. PublishAmerica doesn't get bookstore distribution. It lies about that to its authors. The tiny scattering of PA titles that do get into bookstores do so solely on account of their authors' efforts. PA does jack.
3. PublishAmerica's titles aren't listed by the Library of Congress because it's a POD vanity press. 'Nuff said.
4. You're here for two reasons: to try to bully PA's critics into silence, and to lie about these points.
And by the way, I used to prepare copyright pages for a biggish trade publisher, and I know more about CIP data and copyright registration than you're ever going to know this side of an intensive course. You'll do yourself less harm if you knock off that line of BS right now.
HapiSofi
Re: Library Journal
I'm sorry, Marky, it's taken me this long to assimilate those remarks you quoted:
The online presentations of PA books are abysmal. When I mentioned that to Todd Hunter at mindsight he said that it "doesn't matter." He also said that placement in bookstores didn't matter.
Is he out of his mind? Of course they matter! You don't have to be a marketing genius to know that. You just have to think like a reader. We judge books by their presentation, and rightly so. We also judge them by where we find them. In normal bookselling, both those things are semiotically complex sets of signals that help us sort out what kind of book is this and am I likely to enjoy it.
If this Todd Hunter is an author, he's taking a characteristic auctorial folly -- "If people will just read my book, I know they'll love it" -- to new heights.
I'm sorry, Marky, it's taken me this long to assimilate those remarks you quoted:
The online presentations of PA books are abysmal. When I mentioned that to Todd Hunter at mindsight he said that it "doesn't matter." He also said that placement in bookstores didn't matter.
Is he out of his mind? Of course they matter! You don't have to be a marketing genius to know that. You just have to think like a reader. We judge books by their presentation, and rightly so. We also judge them by where we find them. In normal bookselling, both those things are semiotically complex sets of signals that help us sort out what kind of book is this and am I likely to enjoy it.
If this Todd Hunter is an author, he's taking a characteristic auctorial folly -- "If people will just read my book, I know they'll love it" -- to new heights.
popper20
Random House prints more books on demand than PA does
Hapi,
Another little tempest in a tiny little teapot? You're getting wronger all the time. Please check your facts and apologize. You wonder why I'm "rude?" You have no "main points." You're making up things!
1 - Random House prints more books on demand than PA does.
2 - That's so far off it's not worthy of response. See PA msg brd and hundreds of bookstores nationwide.
3 - The reason PA's books aren't listed with the LoC is simply because only large publishing houses tend to register their books there. It costs and is time consuming, and most publishers do not register books there.
But it's important to note just how totally wrong you all are. The LoC has no criteria whatsoever, and does not "accept" or "reject" books from any publisher. The LoC takes all that will pay the fee. To suggest otherwise is just plain ridiculous.
Common knowledege, check facts, apologize, etc.
Hapi,
Another little tempest in a tiny little teapot? You're getting wronger all the time. Please check your facts and apologize. You wonder why I'm "rude?" You have no "main points." You're making up things!
1 - Random House prints more books on demand than PA does.
2 - That's so far off it's not worthy of response. See PA msg brd and hundreds of bookstores nationwide.
3 - The reason PA's books aren't listed with the LoC is simply because only large publishing houses tend to register their books there. It costs and is time consuming, and most publishers do not register books there.
But it's important to note just how totally wrong you all are. The LoC has no criteria whatsoever, and does not "accept" or "reject" books from any publisher. The LoC takes all that will pay the fee. To suggest otherwise is just plain ridiculous.
Common knowledege, check facts, apologize, etc.
absolutewrite
Re: Poor contract
I haven't read through this whole thread-- just noticed James' question to me:
Authors! Authors! One time (ONE time) PA sent us a book on request. All of the others came from the authors.
I haven't read through this whole thread-- just noticed James' question to me:
Yo, Jenna! You around? Back in the days when you were reviewing PA books did they come direct from PA, or were the authors sending 'em to you?
Authors! Authors! One time (ONE time) PA sent us a book on request. All of the others came from the authors.
writingal
PA reviews
When I was on the features staff at a daily paper we had a policy to not review PA and other self published books. Because really, that's what PA is, under the guise of no fees (but selling overpriced books to authors). Nevertheless, many were sent to us by authors for review. Not once was one sent by PA.
Another note: A friend has a manuscript he's trying to sell and he retained the services of an "agent." This agent called him, excited, and said she had a contract for him with PA. He was excited, too, until I explained to him what PA is all about. So there are agents out there who are trying to make money off unsuspecting authors by getting contracts with PA.
When I was on the features staff at a daily paper we had a policy to not review PA and other self published books. Because really, that's what PA is, under the guise of no fees (but selling overpriced books to authors). Nevertheless, many were sent to us by authors for review. Not once was one sent by PA.
Another note: A friend has a manuscript he's trying to sell and he retained the services of an "agent." This agent called him, excited, and said she had a contract for him with PA. He was excited, too, until I explained to him what PA is all about. So there are agents out there who are trying to make money off unsuspecting authors by getting contracts with PA.
marky48
Re: Poor contract
"You're getting wronger?" I've only seen this used by one poster ever and it was in a response to my warning at the PA mesage board.
In that instance, the quote was "marky1 you couldn't be more wronger." The author was Diana Hignutt, i.e. Moonsword.
My record on these predictions in this affair is 0/2 so far, but she may have been tapped for this detail. Popper20 can only recite the propaganda from the website, like a brainwashed cult member. Guessing true indenties of these defenders is difficult, but we know who is pulling their strings.
"You're getting wronger?" I've only seen this used by one poster ever and it was in a response to my warning at the PA mesage board.
In that instance, the quote was "marky1 you couldn't be more wronger." The author was Diana Hignutt, i.e. Moonsword.
My record on these predictions in this affair is 0/2 so far, but she may have been tapped for this detail. Popper20 can only recite the propaganda from the website, like a brainwashed cult member. Guessing true indenties of these defenders is difficult, but we know who is pulling their strings.
marky48
Re: Poor contract
Hapi, anyone that can use "semiotically complex sets of signals" in a sentence is someone I'm proud to know. We're glad your here.
Hapi, anyone that can use "semiotically complex sets of signals" in a sentence is someone I'm proud to know. We're glad your here.
vstrauss
PA Agent
Writingal, I'd be very interested to know who the agent is--I try to keep track of agents who place books with PA, as, if nothing else, PA placement is a mark of unprofessionalism...if you don't want to post the name here, contact me privately: [email protected]. Thanks.
- Victoria
Writer Beware
www.writerbeware.com/
Writingal, I'd be very interested to know who the agent is--I try to keep track of agents who place books with PA, as, if nothing else, PA placement is a mark of unprofessionalism...if you don't want to post the name here, contact me privately: [email protected]. Thanks.
- Victoria
Writer Beware
www.writerbeware.com/
marky48
Re: PA Agent
For a trip down the PA memory lane the quote above is in the middle of the thread. It illustrates clearly how difficult these people are to convince. One even thinks PA is in the top 20% of sales nationwide. It's that sad. I noticed one writer there who claimed to have an agent, "shortie" is her screen name.
www.publishamerica.com/cg...ge/747.htm
A true believer's faith in his own misconceptions can be a tough obsticle.
For a trip down the PA memory lane the quote above is in the middle of the thread. It illustrates clearly how difficult these people are to convince. One even thinks PA is in the top 20% of sales nationwide. It's that sad. I noticed one writer there who claimed to have an agent, "shortie" is her screen name.
www.publishamerica.com/cg...ge/747.htm
A true believer's faith in his own misconceptions can be a tough obsticle.