• Basic Writing questions is not a crit forum. All crits belong in Share Your Work

What's the WORST Writing advice you've ever been Given?

Dom Perkins

The Idahoan Horror Writer
Registered
Joined
Jan 3, 2019
Messages
44
Reaction score
1
Location
Idaho, USA
| What's the worst writing advice you've ever been given? I'm surprised I couldn't find a thread like this on AW already, especially since this question gets asked a lot on places like Quora. So I thought it'd be fun to start one here. Share the worst writing advice you've ever been given, and share why you think it's bad. I'll start with a few. |


1. Don't use "said" This one is probably the worst writing advice I've ever heard. I still see it given, usually by newbie writers, online and even here on AW. I think it's mistakenly given out by Elementary and Middle school teachers, and some people still swear by it for awhile. They usually say to replace "said" with stronger words like "announced," mumbled," etc. No, no, no. That's terrible advice. "Said" is an invisible word, so the reader skims over it, not even thinking about it. Replacing every one with something else just distracts the reader and makes the dialogue seem... unrealistic.

2. Don't write in present tense This one specifically irks me. Most people write in past tense, but some write in present. I've heard that certain readers will put a book down if they notice it's in present tense. That's on them. Personally, I usually write in past tense, but certain stories are told better in present tense. Thinking that you should never use present tense is a mistake imo.

3. Always use strong, specific action verbs in place of passive verbs This usually applies to words like "go, went, have, saw," etc. It's not actually bad advice in and of itself, but it can be overused. Replacing passive verbs with stronger action verbs makes the writing much more vivid of course, but overusing it can be too much. Especially when you replace a simple word like "went," with two or three-syllable monsters. If you do that for every passive verb, the prose will become long and hard to read, then the reader will probably skim over the text. There's always a time and place.

4. Write what you know Now if everyone followed this advice, the fantasy genre would cease to exist. Because no one on Earth has been to Hogwarts or fought an evil sewer clown. You can be from a small town of Hicksville, AL, but nothing stops you from writing about someone in NY or LA, or writing about a wealthy business owner or a pirate. I will give a piece of advice, however, which I think is better: Write genuinely. If you've ever been lonely, you can write from a place of loneliness. If you've ever been angry, you can write about an angry protagonist. Also, you don't need to have ever suffered a tragic experience to write something tragic. We've all been sad/heartbroken, so write from there. Then, in a way, you are writing from someplace you know.

5. Cut out all adverbs Again, this is another type of good advice that can be overused. I won't focus too much ere, because most of us know that adverbs are often lazy writing, or it can be expressed with better words. However, never using them is bad advice imo. A few here and there are fine, especially if you use specific adverbs and well-placed adverbs.

6. Novels need Prologues This one is a rare one, but a few people still think this. No, novels don't need a prologue. In fact, very few novels do. Often times it's just exposition and info dumps. Be very careful when using prologues.

7. Never use "was" Now this one is really, really bad advice. Although, I've seen a few AW writers give this out. They assume that any "to be" verb (was, is, etc) is always passive. They aren't. For example, "It was a Wednesday afternoon," isn't passive. But several writers will go long ways to avoid using the word "was," and in doing so will replace it with long, boring prose that makes it clear that it's a Wednesday afternoon, instead of just plainly and explicitly telling us. They also tend to make long run-on sentences by doing that, usually since they never use commas and only use preposition words.

| Thanks for reading. Lemme know what pieces of writing advice you really hate |
 

Albedo

Alex
Super Member
Registered
Joined
Dec 17, 2007
Messages
7,376
Reaction score
2,958
Location
A dimension of pure BEES
"You need to be on Twitter".

In general, any horsecrap invented by prescriptive grammarians, like 'split infinitives are bad'.

'The passive voice must be avoided at all costs', usually pushed by people who couldn't pick the passive out of a lineup.
 

lizmonster

Possibly A Mermaid Queen
Absolute Sage
Super Member
Registered
Joined
Jul 5, 2012
Messages
14,734
Reaction score
24,754
Location
Massachusetts
Website
elizabethbonesteel.com
I had a teacher insist you had to draft by hand, in pen, no crossing out, no erasing.

In general, any writing advice that offers up the One True Way should be considered, at best, a mild suggestion of something you might try if your own method isn't getting you where you want.
 

Sage

Supreme Guessinator
Staff member
Moderator
Super Member
Registered
Joined
Oct 15, 2005
Messages
64,714
Reaction score
22,706
Age
43
Location
Cheering you all on!
On opposite ends of the advice spectrum:

I've had one beta tell me to use a prologue to give the reader all the world-building up front. I'm not anti-prologue, but I am against those kind.

I had another beta tell me not to use adverbs upon coming to the first (lonely) one a few pages into my novel. Basically any advice given to newer fiction writers (avoiding adverbs, avoiding saidisms, avoiding passive voice, etc.) that is taken as an absolute is bad advice. Authors don't only have to understand what the advice is, but also why that advice exists and when it's okay to ignore it. Parroting the advice to other authors without thinking about whether it applies to that novel is unhelpful.

Just crossing things out without giving any reason behind it at all. Guess how much an author learns from that. Nada.
 

Marian Perera

starting over
Super Member
Registered
Joined
Dec 29, 2006
Messages
14,355
Reaction score
4,663
Location
Heaven is a place on earth called Toronto.
Website
www.marianperera.com
Lemme know what pieces of writing advice you really hate

This is from a book about writing, by a bestselling author :

I know some of you will choose to write category fiction. Although I think you are making a mistake by choosing a genre career, I wish you well.

[...]

Mainstream demands more than most genre work--deeper characterization, more background, better-realized thematic structure, more attention to character motivation, fresher action scenes, and a better balance among the sundry elements of fiction. [...] If you have an idea for a good genre novel, play with it, work with it, pull and tug and reshape it, until you have broadened the concept and can write it as a larger, more ambitious mainstream book. You will not be sorry.

Here's more advice, from another bestselling author :

Do not use obscenities – and never mind all the arguments about “realism”.

[...]

By “journalistic references”, I mean the names of living authors, political figures, song hits – any proper names which pertain concretely to a given period. The rule is: Do not use anything of this nature more recent than a hundred years.

Oh, and this is from a book about how to write romance (published in 2007). It's advice on making female characters realistic :

Check for aggressiveness. Women tend to be indirect and manipulative; even an assertive woman usually considers the effect her statement is likely to have before she makes it. Can you add questions to her dialogue, or add approval-seeking comments and suggestions that masquerade as questions?

Check for emotions. Women tend to bubble over with emotion, with the exception that they’re generally hesitant to express anger and tend to do so in a passive or euphemistic manner. If you need your heroine to be angry, can you give her a really good reason for yelling?
 
Last edited:

novicewriter

Super Member
Registered
Joined
Aug 16, 2017
Messages
293
Reaction score
48
Yeah, I remember being taught by teachers at school to use adverbs and not just "said."

Another thing I've had to "unlearn" that I was taught at school was about "never write sentence fragments." Since my teachers always expected proper grammar, it's still a challenge for me to write stories with short, sentence fragments that would make it sound more lively, exciting and not so formal.
 

Roxxsmom

Beastly Fido
Kind Benefactor
Super Member
Registered
Joined
Oct 24, 2011
Messages
23,128
Reaction score
10,899
Location
Where faults collide
Website
doggedlywriting.blogspot.com
I think the worst single piece of advice I ever ran across in a writing blog was to never use contractions outside of dialog (the author claimed their editor told them this). This is not even true for most styles of non-fiction these days, and I don't think it's been true for fiction writing for a very long time. Like a lot of bad advice, a quick perusal of one's bookshelves gives it the lie, but I've run across am amazing number of people on writing sites who insist it's improper or who say that contractions still make their eyelid twitch, even though they know they are "allowed" in fiction.

They can't read much. Seriously.

IMO, the worst advice is always that which assumes all writers should write with the same voice, style, and tone (or is given by those writers, however successful, who assume every other writer wants to emulate their voice, style and tone). A close second is any advice that assumes a writer of fiction should adhere to the same "rules" that may apply to scholarly prose (though even that has gotten much less formal in recent decades).

The advice to avoid "to be" verbs always and at all costs is also PIP (pretty piss poor), imo. Yes, beginner writers often overuse them, and evocative, "strong" verbs often work better for evoking a specific image in the readers mind. But a quick perusal of some of the best opening sentences (for novels) of all time include quite a large number that include "to be" verbs.

http://americanbookreview.org/100BestLines.asp



""It was a bright cold day in April, and the clocks were striking thirteen."

I see two, count them, two "to be" verbs here! Notice that the opening sentence to 1984 also violates the often-given rule not to open a novel with a description of the weather.
 
Last edited:

screenscope

Super Member
Registered
Joined
Mar 5, 2005
Messages
681
Reaction score
78
Location
Sydney, Australia
Most writing advice is terrible, because it is opinion disguised as advice and deserves to be either rejected or challenged and, occasionally, grudgingly accepted if tried and suitable to be applied to your writing.

The two bits of 'advice' I dislike the most are, 'write every day' and 'write x number of words everyday.' Good for maths, but they won't improve your writing (in my opinion).
 

Dom Perkins

The Idahoan Horror Writer
Registered
Joined
Jan 3, 2019
Messages
44
Reaction score
1
Location
Idaho, USA
The two bits of 'advice' I dislike the most are, 'write every day' and 'write x number of words everyday.' Good for maths, but they won't improve your writing (in my opinion).

I think writing everyday is a good habit and goal to strive for, but obviously unrealistic for most people. And daily word goals, to me, have always seemed like a personal goal of a writer them-self. I agree, that's terrible advice to give out.
 

starrystorm

Super Member
Registered
Joined
Jul 9, 2018
Messages
2,987
Reaction score
605
Age
24
Another thing I've had to "unlearn" that I was taught at school was about "never write sentence fragments." Since my teachers always expected proper grammar, it's still a challenge for me to write stories with short, sentence fragments that would make it sound more lively, exciting and not so formal.

This is what I was going to say. It wasn't until senior year that my teacher said you can use fragments for style. I was so grateful. I always got called out for fragments, but IMO it makes a story so much better if used right.
 

rgroberts

Super Member
Registered
Joined
Aug 1, 2018
Messages
135
Reaction score
14
Location
New England, USA
The worst piece of writing advice I ever got was "don't write fan fiction."

Granted, if your goal is to publish what you're currently writing, fan fiction won't get you anywhere. But if you're looking to experiment and grow, fan fiction is a great place to play. I was at a point in my life where I didn't have the time to devote to getting something published, and I just wanted to write for fun - and to grow a little while I was at it. I think I got a lot of my ugly writing stage out of the way writing fan fiction, and I learned a lot about how I write, plot, and plan (or don't!). I experimented with story structure and character voices, and I got great feedback from fellow fans. Some people might call that wasted writing time, but I learned a lot.

Sure, fan fiction won't make you money, but it can help you develop as a writer. I've veered away from it now that I have time to concentrate on my original stuff, but I won't forget how much it taught me.
 

lizmonster

Possibly A Mermaid Queen
Absolute Sage
Super Member
Registered
Joined
Jul 5, 2012
Messages
14,734
Reaction score
24,754
Location
Massachusetts
Website
elizabethbonesteel.com
Can I add "you have to have an MFA (or some kind of professional training)"?

Pet peeve of mine, and it's hard to argue, because for the most part structured practice and critique is going to be a good growth experience for every writer.

But...I was at a con where a Writer Who Shall Not Be Named was extolling the virtues of a 6-week program in California, and how you should move mountains to do something like that, and I'm trying to remember a single job I ever had that would've given me 6 weeks off (and I had really good jobs). It's classist, suggesting that a formal writing program is required, and I hate to think of all the people who gave up because they knew they'd never be able to arrange for that kind of education.
 

indianroads

Wherever I go, there I am.
Super Member
Registered
Joined
Mar 4, 2017
Messages
2,372
Reaction score
230
Location
Colorado
Website
indianroads.net
Can I add "you have to have an MFA (or some kind of professional training)"?

Pet peeve of mine, and it's hard to argue, because for the most part structured practice and critique is going to be a good growth experience for every writer.

But...I was at a con where a Writer Who Shall Not Be Named was extolling the virtues of a 6-week program in California, and how you should move mountains to do something like that, and I'm trying to remember a single job I ever had that would've given me 6 weeks off (and I had really good jobs). It's classist, suggesting that a formal writing program is required, and I hate to think of all the people who gave up because they knew they'd never be able to arrange for that kind of education.

IMO there are a lot of ways you can go about learning writing (or anything actually). For example, I absorb information better through application rather than theory, so for me reading is the best learning method.
 

Chris P

Likes metaphors mixed, not stirred
Kind Benefactor
Super Member
Registered
Joined
Nov 4, 2009
Messages
22,669
Reaction score
7,356
Location
Wash., D.C. area
I think all writing advice is based on a kernel of truth that applies to from one to many situations, and should be considered, and all writing advice becomes ridiculous when applied as an absolute rule and should be ignored when the situation calls for it. Therefore, there is no inherently bad or inherently good writing advice. The job of the writer is to decide which advice to take and when, which of course depends on a whole slew of factors that we learn to discern as we grow as writers.
 

indianroads

Wherever I go, there I am.
Super Member
Registered
Joined
Mar 4, 2017
Messages
2,372
Reaction score
230
Location
Colorado
Website
indianroads.net
I think all writing advice is based on a kernel of truth that applies to from one to many situations, and should be considered, and all writing advice becomes ridiculous when applied as an absolute rule and should be ignored when the situation calls for it. Therefore, there is no inherently bad or inherently good writing advice. The job of the writer is to decide which advice to take and when, which of course depends on a whole slew of factors that we learn to discern as we grow as writers.

“Absorb what is useful, discard what is useless and add what is specifically your own.”
― Bruce Lee
 

M.S. Wiggins

"The Moving Finger writes..."
Kind Benefactor
Super Member
Registered
Joined
May 27, 2014
Messages
3,266
Reaction score
680
Location
Charleston
Some of the worst writing advice I’ve received has also been the best. Often, the advice misses the bullseye but hits the target. Only ‘mental digestion’ will reveal the best parts and pieces of the advice you should ‘recycle’. Even the worst advice I’ve received over the manuscript-years had at least some merit and that’s the takeaway golden nugget of knowledge to employ in future writing endeavors. Below is a quote I always copy and paste into every beta-reading final assessment that I complete. It’s excellent advice concerning advice. (Hopefully I'm correct in crediting the 'who said'→), a Mary Schich quote:

Be careful whose advice you buy but be patient with those who supply it. Advice is a form of nostalgia. Displaying it is a way of fishing the past from the disposal, wiping it off, painting over the ugly parts, and recycling it for more than it’s worth.’
 

PamelaC

Super Member
Registered
Joined
Feb 24, 2013
Messages
475
Reaction score
139
Location
North Carolina
I'm probably not qualified to judge any advice I've been given as being bad. Who am I to say? It's not like I'm a best-selling published author who has this all figured out.

That said, something that I see a lot and that I think can be a misleading piece of advice is the notion that the first draft is not only allowed to be "shit" but that it's almost supposed to be "shit". That anyone who takes time to revise and edit as they go isn't doing it right.

Piling an unending amount of "shit" into a first draft might work for some people, but I would think that for a lot of others it could be detrimental to actually getting their story onto the page. I know that when I'm uninspired or cannot figure out a scene, simply spewing forth a bunch of "shit" isn't necessarily going to help. In fact, it usually digs me even further into a hole that I'm having trouble finding my way out of. Eventually I'm going to hit a dead end because of major issues with plot holes or character motivation or some other inconsistencies that resulted from simply writing "shit" in an attempt to finish a first draft in any way, shape, or form.

I realize as a slightly more seasoned (though still new) writer that the "shit" part is meant to refer more to the grammar, spelling, sentence structure, etc. that can all be cleaned up later, not the narrative itself. But that wasn't automatically clear to me. Add in the NaNo philosophy of just vomiting 50,000 words in a month and acting like that's an achievement worth celebrating, and I really had the wrong idea about how to tackle the first draft of a novel.

I've now found the balance of writing well enough to advance my story and keep my motivation in tact while not obsessing too much over the small stuff that I know I can fix on the next pass.
 

Kat M

Ooh, look! String!
Super Member
Registered
Joined
Jan 4, 2019
Messages
951
Reaction score
627
Location
Puget Sound
The advice-givers I respect the most are the ones that tell you why they are giving that piece of advice.

"Get rid of your adverbs," means I will be striking them out of the text and replacing them with bad alternatives or flat prose.

"Try to minimize adverbs because often they modify and weaken a verb where one, vivid strong verb will do," sends me to my adverbs to see if a strong, vivid verb will indeed do. And sometimes you conclude that yes, "said quietly" is exactly what you need to say.

It's hard to break "the rules" when you don't know why you might want to break them.
 

Night_Writer

It's all symbolic.
Super Member
Registered
Joined
Nov 5, 2011
Messages
1,053
Reaction score
86
Location
The New World
1. Don't use "said" This one is probably the worst writing advice I've ever heard. I still see it given, usually by newbie writers, online and even here on AW. I think it's mistakenly given out by Elementary and Middle school teachers, and some people still swear by it for awhile. They usually say to replace "said" with stronger words like "announced," mumbled," etc. No, no, no. That's terrible advice. "Said" is an invisible word, so the reader skims over it, not even thinking about it. Replacing every one with something else just distracts the reader and makes the dialogue seem... unrealistic.

I was surprised to see this listed here, because for a while, the going advice was that "said" was the only dialogue tag that was acceptable to use at all. It's even in one of Stephen King's books on how to write.

No whispering, no shouting, no murmuring allowed. The option might exist to use an adverb after said, so that you could have "said sweetly," "said hoarsely," or "said suggestively." But adverbs are strictly forbidden, too. Usually the advice against using adverbs says that we should find a stronger verb. So "said sweetly" could be replaced by "murmured." But you can't do that because only said is allowed! So we've gone full circle.

The tag "said" is not completely invisible. Used repeatedly it makes everyone sound monotonous and flat. After a while it just makes me ask, Could someone around here please shout or moan or bellow? Please?

5. Cut out all adverbs Again, this is another type of good advice that can be overused. I won't focus too much ere, because most of us know that adverbs are often lazy writing, or it can be expressed with better words. However, never using them is bad advice imo. A few here and there are fine, especially if you use specific adverbs and well-placed adverbs.

Most anti-adverb advice I think is just insulting to one's intelligence. Yet some strictly believe in it. This also was in one of Stephen King's books, where he said adverbs should not be used for any reason. Not surprisingly, his novels are full of adverbs. In fact, I don't think I've ever seen anyone use more adverbs than Stephen King.

What's wrong with using an adverb to say someone ran quickly through the forest? I suppose instead, he could sprint or jog or dash or propel himself through the forest. But it sounds to me like a Warner Brothers cartoon.

7. Never use "was" Now this one is really, really bad advice. Although, I've seen a few AW writers give this out. They assume that any "to be" verb (was, is, etc) is always passive. They aren't. For example, "It was a Wednesday afternoon," isn't passive. But several writers will go long ways to avoid using the word "was," and in doing so will replace it with long, boring prose that makes it clear that it's a Wednesday afternoon, instead of just plainly and explicitly telling us. They also tend to make long run-on sentences by doing that, usually since they never use commas and only use preposition words.

I agree totally. I think this "advice" exists because some people don't know what passive voice is. "He was fat" is not passive. "He was bitten by a dog" is passive. "A dog bit him" is active. Passive voice is when the "was" is put in front of the verb. And a "by" is usually in there as well. So "He WAS hit BY a car" is passive. And it has its uses.

I know I've rambled on enough but I wanted to throw in a personal peeve of mine. It's the strict adherence to the Show, Don't Tell idea. In itself, it's good advice. But some people on AW act like there's no other way. Sometimes I don't want to spend thirty pages on someone's vacation when I only need one sentence. I just want to say that he spent a few weeks in Hawaii. But I'm supposed to show, not tell. OK, he got into the plane, and then he had a snack, and then took a nap. When he got to Honolulu International Airport..........
 
Last edited:

BethS

Super Member
Registered
Joined
Dec 21, 2005
Messages
11,708
Reaction score
1,763
A workshop presenter at a writing conference told us that the only way to write well was to write fast. No exceptions. Never slow down to edit or think, or whatever you were writing would be terrible. To be a professional writer, you have to write fast. Period. Always and forever.
 

Chris P

Likes metaphors mixed, not stirred
Kind Benefactor
Super Member
Registered
Joined
Nov 4, 2009
Messages
22,669
Reaction score
7,356
Location
Wash., D.C. area
A workshop presenter at a writing conference told us that the only way to write well was to write fast. No exceptions. Never slow down to edit or think, or whatever you were writing would be terrible. To be a professional writer, you have to write fast. Period. Always and forever.

*posts a reply sometime in April*
 

indianroads

Wherever I go, there I am.
Super Member
Registered
Joined
Mar 4, 2017
Messages
2,372
Reaction score
230
Location
Colorado
Website
indianroads.net
A workshop presenter at a writing conference told us that the only way to write well was to write fast. No exceptions. Never slow down to edit or think, or whatever you were writing would be terrible. To be a professional writer, you have to write fast. Period. Always and forever.

A professor had us do this exercise once - I believe the idea was to strike (get it down on paper) while the iron is hot. Don't worry about punctuation or even spelling, just get it down while you're inspired before it gets away.

An art teacher used a similar exercise. We'd go outside and do a series of rapid sketches to capture proportion and perspective. After that we would return and flesh out the artwork.

I didn't find either exercise especially useful... BUT some people probably did.
 

Norman Mjadwesch

vacuous eyes, will bark at shadows
Super Member
Registered
Joined
Mar 17, 2018
Messages
2,384
Reaction score
1,939
Location
Far Far Away
The worst advice I ever got about writing had nothing at all to do with the technical aspect. It was this, in response to a time-management discussion: “Quit. You’re never going to make a living from it so what’s the point?”

Jeez, imagine if all of the writers in the world had done that? We’d be illiterate.
 

Brightdreamer

Just Another Lazy Perfectionist
Super Member
Registered
Joined
Apr 22, 2012
Messages
13,071
Reaction score
4,668
Location
USA
Website
brightdreamersbookreviews.blogspot.com
A professor had us do this exercise once - I believe the idea was to strike (get it down on paper) while the iron is hot. Don't worry about punctuation or even spelling, just get it down while you're inspired before it gets away.

An art teacher used a similar exercise. We'd go outside and do a series of rapid sketches to capture proportion and perspective. After that we would return and flesh out the artwork.

I didn't find either exercise especially useful... BUT some people probably did.

In art, gesture sketching like that is to help one "see" the general shape and flow and form of a subject, especially a subject prone to motion, or one where you can't stand around long enough for a detailed painting (such as street scenes that are too busy to set up an easel and create at leisure, or an informal portrait where you may block in the general shapes and then finish up without expecting the subject to hang around the studio for hours or days.) Animators in particular need to learn to capture the essence of a subject and motion quickly, so quick gesture drawings are vital. It's not supposed to be the finished product, just a tool to help the finished product and an exercise to develop the eye, not to mention getting over fear of the blank page. It does have value, but is never supposed to be an end to itself.
 

indianroads

Wherever I go, there I am.
Super Member
Registered
Joined
Mar 4, 2017
Messages
2,372
Reaction score
230
Location
Colorado
Website
indianroads.net
In art, gesture sketching like that is to help one "see" the general shape and flow and form of a subject, especially a subject prone to motion, or one where you can't stand around long enough for a detailed painting (such as street scenes that are too busy to set up an easel and create at leisure, or an informal portrait where you may block in the general shapes and then finish up without expecting the subject to hang around the studio for hours or days.) Animators in particular need to learn to capture the essence of a subject and motion quickly, so quick gesture drawings are vital. It's not supposed to be the finished product, just a tool to help the finished product and an exercise to develop the eye, not to mention getting over fear of the blank page. It does have value, but is never supposed to be an end to itself.

Yes, exactly as it was explained.

You could use that same approach in writing - to sketch it out and get the feel of the story down. I've taken to having a note pad beside my bed - I'm a lucid dreamer, and have a lot of ideas come at me while I sleep.

Another thing I do that's a bit like this is to 'sketch' a story out in a bulleted list in Word. This lets me see the general shape whole story, and then I can decide if it's got legs and if it's something I want to write.