"Women Won't Read This and Men Won't Buy It"

[gothicangel]

Don't know whether this is the right place, but this has been bugging me for years. This was what was written in my first rejection letter for my first novel (many years ago). The agency is a top UK agency (the agent herself has now sadly passed away) and I appreciate that they had handwritten this on a form letter (so they must have seen something in it). But it has irked me with self-doubt for years.

It was a crime novel with a male MC and I've always looked at this as a 'marketing rejection' (who do we market this book to?) But it's haunted me, is this how readers think? Because I'm female am I supposed to write crime books only with a female MC. I'm not trying to be Martina Cole or Lee Child (I don't particularly enjoy those type of stories anyway).

Are readers really that fickle?

 

[Bufty]

If it's many years ago I guess it was based on some weird prejudice of many years ago. Seems an odd comment to me - I don't really know what it means.

 

[lizmonster]

Are readers really that fickle?

1) In aggregate, yes.

2) From my understanding, it's wildly genre-dependent, and crime fiction in particular has a lot of bestselling female authors who write male protagonists.

3) Based on my own experience, some publishers may be making their own trouble by steering books toward a particular category of readers. Market bias starts with the people who decide how to market the book.

 

[Ari Meermans]

Don't let it haunt you or cause self-doubt. That handwritten statement is merely one agent's opinion. You could play the blame game—putting it on the agent, readers, yourself, or the book—but what good does that serve? Anything you come up with is only going to be speculation based on what is simply a broadly worded opinion—and whatever you come up with will likely be wrong and if internalized harmful to your career going forward. Don't do that to yourself.

 

[gothicangel]

Don't let it haunt you or cause self-doubt. That handwritten statement is merely one agent's opinion. You could play the blame game—putting it on the agent, readers, yourself, or the book—but what good does that serve? Anything you come up with is only going to be speculation based on what is simply a broadly worded opinion—and whatever you come up with will likely be wrong and if internalized harmful to your career going forward. Don't do that to yourself.

Thanks.

It was some years ago and the publishing landscape has changed a lot since. If when I send it out, the overwhelming response was that it's rejected based on a marketing decision, I would definitely consider self-publishing (professionally with experienced editors etc.) But that's a long way down the road yet.

 

[lizmonster]

Thanks.

It was some years ago and the publishing landscape has changed a lot since. If when I send it out, the overwhelming response was that it's rejected based on a marketing decision, I would definitely consider self-publishing (professionally with experienced editors etc.) But that's a long way down the road yet.

Yeah, what I should have said more clearly is that I haven't seen nearly as much gender bias in crime fiction as I have in other genres, and I've been a crime fiction reader for decades. I'd assume that response was an anomaly, and not let it deter you at all.

 

[frimble3]

Depends on the story, I suppose, but Agatha Christie did all right with Hercule Poirot. As did P.D. James with Adam Dalgliesh.
If that's the only comment you ever had saying that, I'd send it out again.

 

[Dan Rhys]

Given my experience with agents, that kind of denseness from one does not surprise me. I can only guess the agent passed away from old age because that would explain the perspective she had. If the story is strong, I would think the publisher would worry about how it is marketed. That is a comment I would absolutely ignore before moving on to other agents.

 

[mccardey]

Given my experience with agents, that kind of denseness from one does not surprise me.

Oh do stop it, Daniel.

 

[mccardey]

Don't know whether this is the right place, but this has been bugging me for years. This was what was written in my first rejection letter for my first novel (many years ago). The agency is a top UK agency (the agent herself has now sadly passed away) and I appreciate that they had handwritten this on a form letter (so they must have seen something in it). But it has irked me with self-doubt for years.

It was a crime novel with a male MC and I've always looked at this as a 'marketing rejection' (who do we market this book to?) But it's haunted me, is this how readers think? Because I'm female am I supposed to write crime books only with a female MC. I'm not trying to be Martina Cole or Lee Child (I don't particularly enjoy those type of stories anyway).

Are readers really that fickle?

if it helps, I remember quite a long time ago that that was bit of a catch-phrase in publishing. It could also be “parents won’t buy it and kids won’t read it.” It may have simply been the form rejection of its time..

 

[Unimportant]

Given my experience with agents....

Gosh, how many agents have you had represent you?

 

[SwallowFeather]

if it helps, I remember quite a long time ago that that was bit of a catch-phrase in publishing. It could also be “parents won’t buy it and kids won’t read it.” It may have simply been the form rejection of its time..

Yes, to me it almost sounds like a joke. A half-joke. Like they're saying they don't think they can sell it, in general, but saying it in a pithy way they think is funny. Very annoying because it is a bit unclear whether the gender content is meant to be taken seriously, but I'm thinking don't take it seriously. At all.

 

[gothicangel]

if it helps, I remember quite a long time ago that that was bit of a catch-phrase in publishing. It could also be “parents won’t buy it and kids won’t read it.” It may have simply been the form rejection of its time..

I never thought of that before. Kind of makes me more angry about it (and I was absolutely raging at the time).

 

[SwallowFeather]

I never thought of that before. Kind of makes me more angry about it (and I was absolutely raging at the time).

Boy, I hear you. That would piss me off too.

 

[mccardey]

I could be wrong - but I certainly heard it a few times in the 80s. ( I was writing for screen then, but I had friends who were doing books.) I remember them reacting pretty much as one would advise today for “ didn’t fall in love the MC as much as I’d hoped”. As far as rejections went, it did its job.

 

[buz]

So...does that imply men would read it and women would buy it?

 

[JohnLine]

I actually kind of prefer books where the author's and the MC's genders don't match. I read a lot of SF/F and I'd say Harry Potter is the 800 lbs gorilla in the room for that genre (Also Robin Hobb) (Speaking of which, JK Rowling writes crime drama with a male MC). And I think Brandon Sanderson's best work is with female MCs.

I'm not sure exactly what I like about it, but more power to you, and I hope you get it published.

 

[Roxxsmom]

Is it because the MC was male, or because of the characteristics of that particular male MC? I don't know the particulars of crime and of what female (or male) readers in that genre like in particular, but in the genres I read (fantasy and SF), women generally do read books with male MCs as well as ones with female MCs. Personally, I find many male MCs likable, or at least interesting and intriguing if I don't like them, per se, but there is a certain kind of male MC I don't like, and I suspect it's because they're written to appeal more to male fantasies.

I don't tend to like stories with alpha guys who are effortlessly competent at everything and who have gorgeous women crawling all over them as a narrative truth and this is never examined or deconstructed and women are never presented as anything but accessories or eye candy. Likewise for stories where women don't play any role at all aside from victims of male aggression or rewards for male competence.

There are some novels where I read the back cover copy and maybe an opening page or so, and I put them down thinking, "this is a dude book." I can't explain exactly why--beyond what I mentioned in the last paragraph--some books give me this impression, but it's not simply because the story opens with a male pov character or has a male protagonist. It has something to do with the way women are (or aren't) portrayed in the story as well, and in whether or not the male character is emotionally complex, has an interesting voice, and has goals I can relate to.