YA Question

[D. Geoffrey]

It has only been the last few years I have become serious about writing, and recently I have been thinking about writing for younger audiences. As a kid, there were certain books I enjoyed because they were genres that interested me, such as The Chronicles of Narnia and The Tripod Trilogy. Currently, I'm working on a Christmas fantasy tale that I hope will appeal to adults as well as a younger audience, so I'll be perusing the board to see the issues that arise in YA authorship, but any advice for a beginner would be appreciated.

 

[Maryn]

With the caveat that I don't write YA myself...

One important aspect is to know your readership. You shouldn't write YA that would appeal to the child you used to be, or for the children your offspring were at that age. Kids today are the same in some ways, of course, but very different in others.

It is, alas, way too common to see someone who's come to writing later in life (when we finally have some time!) to fail to acknowledge this, or to think they've addressed it fully by adding some tech like cell phones.

If you're serious about adding YA to your repertoire (look who spelled that right on her first try!), it makes good sense to spend time among young people from whom your readership would come. A volunteer gig with right-aged kids might serve you well, serving both those kids and your own aims.

 

[D. Geoffrey]

With the caveat that I don't write YA myself...

One important aspect is to know your readership. You shouldn't write YA that would appeal to the child you used to be, or for the children your offspring were at that age. Kids today are the same in some ways, of course, but very different in others.

It is, alas, way too common to see someone who's come to writing later in life (when we finally have some time!) to fail to acknowledge this, or to think they've addressed it fully by adding some tech like cell phones.

If you're serious about adding YA to your repertoire (look who spelled that right on her first try!), it makes good sense to spend time among young people from whom your readership would come. A volunteer gig with right-aged kids might serve you well, serving both those kids and your own aims.

Excellent point.

But—kids are so scary these days!

 

[lizmonster]

But—kids are so scary these days!

They're not, really. They're as diverse as any other age group. Many of them are really, really lovely.

 

[Brigid Barry]

What you're describing is "cross-over appeal". It's YA that also appeals to adults. But the target market is adolescents.

 

[Sage]

My first suggestion is to read a lot of YA! This will give you a good idea of the current market, which is a long way from classics like Narnia.

I’m afraid you wont find too many Christmas fantasies, though. I can tell you from experience that they are hard to query. This is not meant to discourage you, just to keep your expectations in check. When I wrote my Christmas fantasy, I wrote it with no intention to query it.

Back to advice! Check out the stickied threads in this forum, where we have some good breakdowns of markets (note: they are older and may not be accurate for today’s market, at times). I usually point to three things: age, themes, voice.

Your MCs/POV characters must be teens. It is the hardest rule for YA. If adults are driving the plot, it’s not YA.

The book’s themes must feel like themes important to teens.

YA voice tends to be more immediate than adult voice, IMO. That’s not a hard and fast rule, just my observation reading a bunch of YA & adult books this year. Voice is extremely important in YA.

My best advice is to read lots of YA fantasy & other YA.

Oh, and lots of adults read YA, so don’t worry too much about getting adult readers if you market to teens.

 

[Nether]

It has only been the last few years I have become serious about writing, and recently I have been thinking about writing for younger audiences. As a kid, there were certain books I enjoyed because they were genres that interested me, such as The Chronicles of Narnia and The Tripod Trilogy. Currently, I'm working on a Christmas fantasy tale that I hope will appeal to adults as well as a younger audience, so I'll be perusing the board to see the issues that arise in YA authorship, but any advice for a beginner would be appreciated.

I mean, the Chronicles of Narnia feels like it skews younger than YA. I only remember reading the Lion, the Witch, and the Wardrobe, but I'm pretty sure that was more MG.

As for a Christmas fantasy, I don't feel like that'd have much appeal in the YA space. Stuff like that is kinda niche in adult and then probably a bit more present in MG and younger.

But—kids are so scary these days!

It's hard to succeed without interacting with your audience at some point, unless you're JD Salinger or something. And not many people are JD Salinger. In fact, right now, I don't think anybody is.

They're not, really. They're as diverse as any other age group. Many of them are really, really lovely.

Also, really, really lonely, apparently. I keep hearing of programs that pair up teens with the elderly where the kids actually want those extra adults in their lives, which was the furthest thing from I wanted as a kid. (Of course, just approaching kids would probably raise some eyebrows.)

 

[Akvranel]

But—kids are so scary these days!

I know this is meant to be humorous but understanding the audience you are writing to is critical.
Accidentally writing a sports book has forced me to pick up a basketball again and even *gasp* turn on ESPN.

But if it helps, reading recent books (as in published in 2023/24) intended for your target audience is a good starting place - it will help you separate the books of your youth from the books which are being read today.

It has only been the last few years I have become serious about writing, and recently I have been thinking about writing for younger audiences.

First piece of advice: understand what "younger" means.

It might be best to start figuring out what story you want to tell, and then determine which age range that story would be the fit. It's not uncommon (I speak from experience) for someone to write a YA only to be told it's actually MG or vice versa or (even worse) wouldn't fit into either category.

YA is technically 12-18 but in practice I think it ends up more like 15-18? Those more familiar can correct me if I'm wrong there.
8-12 is MG (and some people differentiate 'upper' from 'lower' MG - there is a noticeable difference in how a MG books for intended for 7th grader is written vs one for a 5th grader).
Chapter Books is usually 4th grade and lower (so 9 y/o) but some older kids who are late readers or just still like those reading those stories could be picking them up. Picture books fall into this category too, but they will skew to an even younger audience.

Each of these groups have different rules, conventions, and expectations. The only two that are pretty consistent is that the protagonist should be the same age as your intended reader (by 1-2 years, favoring older rather than younger) and that there should be very minimal adult involvement.

And just a friendly piece of advice from someone who made this mistake - avoid 13/14 y/o age range for your early attempts.
Technically, I think 13/14 falls into YA, but as some in this age can still be in junior high/middle school, it's hard to place if that story should follow YA or MG trends and conventions.

 

[Sage]

YA is technically 12-18 but in practice I think it ends up more like 15-18? Those more familiar can correct me if I'm wrong there.

No, you’re right. At least for protagonist age, 13-14yo is a hard age to market

 

[Catriona Grace]

It might be best to start figuring out what story you want to tell, and then determine which age range that story would be the fit.

This.

 

[Unimportant]

It has only been the last few years I have become serious about writing, and recently I have been thinking about writing for younger audiences. As a kid, there were certain books I enjoyed because they were genres that interested me, such as The Chronicles of Narnia and The Tripod Trilogy. Currently, I'm working on a Christmas fantasy tale that I hope will appeal to adults as well as a younger audience, so I'll be perusing the board to see the issues that arise in YA authorship, but any advice for a beginner would be appreciated.

My advice is to write for a specific target audience. If you're really good and really really really lucky, the work will cross over to other audiences, but that's just the icing on the cake.

And that means, as noted upstream, knowing your target audience and what they are interested in. Are they 9, or 12, or 17? What are the issues and experiences that interest, perplex, worry, harm, help, and/or enthuse young people of that particular age right at this particular time? I don't mean that you need to go plonk yourself into a schoolroom and spend months observing eighth graders in the wild, like some kind of literary Diane Fossey (sp?). You can learn about them in any number of ways, from eavesdropping on their parents at the park to watching them at McDonalds to reading their personal blogs.

And by reading this year's and last year's popular novels that would be considered comparative to yours, shelved at Barnes and Noble next to yours. At least that part is guaranteed to be fun It's always lovely when one's homework is "go read a bunch of good books".

Good luck!

 

[lizmonster]

My advice is to write for a specific target audience. If you're really good and really really really lucky, the work will cross over to other audiences, but that's just the icing on the cake.

Yeah, crossover really needs to be organic to work. If your publisher starts talking about crossover marketing, run for the hills.

 

[Akvranel]

If your publisher starts talking about crossover marketing, run for the hills.

Would you mind explaining why this is a red flag? I've never heard anything about this being a thing one way or the other, so I'm curious.

 

[lizmonster]

Would you mind explaining why this is a red flag? I've never heard anything about this being a thing one way or the other, so I'm curious.

I've seen this go very badly twice, but both times were devastating to the authors involved. I've seen it go not-completely-devastatingly several times, presaging less-than-satisfying sales. I've never seen it done well, ever.

Basically, as I said above, crossover appeal is something that best happens organically. If the publisher tries to market the book to two distinct markets, they're unlikely to position it well for readers either way. Their attempts to push the book end up being neither fish nor fowl, and neither booksellers nor readers really know what they're supposed to make of it.

Confusion doesn't sell.

 

[Akvranel]

I've seen this go very badly twice, but both times were devastating to the authors involved. I've seen it go not-completely-devastatingly several times, presaging less-than-satisfying sales. I've never seen it done well, ever.

Basically, as I said above, crossover appeal is something that best happens organically. If the publisher tries to market the book to two distinct markets, they're unlikely to position it well for readers either way. Their attempts to push the book end up being neither fish nor fowl, and neither booksellers nor readers really know what they're supposed to make of it.

Confusion doesn't sell.

I see the issue now - thank you for taking the time to explain that to me!

 

[lizmonster]

I see the issue now - thank you for taking the time to explain that to me!

OT, but it's one of the reasons I do think it helps for querying authors to nail both their main genre and subgenre. I don't tend to fuss much about comps, but finding good comps can help you as well. If you know what you've got, you're in a much better position to fight back if your publisher heads off into the weeds.

 

[darrtwish]

They're not, really. They're as diverse as any other age group. Many of them are really, really lovely.

Honestly, if anything they're really weird (lovely, but weird). Making fun of you is how they let you know you're cool. I used to be afraid of working with teens but now they're my favourite age. There are plenty of volunteer experiences available in sports (even if it's something like timekeeping which doesn't inherently require you to be athletic) or at your local library. Even tween spaces can kind of point you towards what teens will care about in a few years time.

I definitely think reading what's out there is helpful. Publishing trends change quickly, and so does what's acceptable for teen audiences. For example, YA has been trending towards darker in the past decade or so -- things I would have never thought to put in a book before are not only acceptable but popular. I'm thinking along the lines of One of Us is Lying series by Karen McManus or A Good Girl's Guide to Murder by Holly Jackson. That's not to say what was once popular can't be popular again. The absolute chokehold Twilight is having in 7th & 8th grade classrooms right now is not something I predicted.

ETA: Huh, it seems I have made an error in quoting. I meant to quote both the bit about teens being scary and this quoted part, but I didn't -- oops.

 

[D. Geoffrey]

My advice is to write for a specific target audience. If you're really good and really really really lucky, the work will cross over to other audiences, but that's just the icing on the cake.

And that means, as noted upstream, knowing your target audience and what they are interested in. Are they 9, or 12, or 17? What are the issues and experiences that interest, perplex, worry, harm, help, and/or enthuse young people of that particular age right at this particular time? I don't mean that you need to go plonk yourself into a schoolroom and spend months observing eighth graders in the wild, like some kind of literary Diane Fossey (sp?). You can learn about them in any number of ways, from eavesdropping on their parents at the park to watching them at McDonalds to reading their personal blogs.

And by reading this year's and last year's popular novels that would be considered comparative to yours, shelved at Barnes and Noble next to yours. At least that part is guaranteed to be fun It's always lovely when one's homework is "go read a bunch of good books".

Good luck!

All good advice, and some humor too!

I don't mean that you need to go plonk yourself into a schoolroom and spend months observing eighth graders in the wild, like some kind of literary Diane Fossey (sp?).

Whew! I happen to remember what eighth grade was like ...

 

[D. Geoffrey]

I know this is meant to be humorous but understanding the audience you are writing to is critical.
Accidentally writing a sports book has forced me to pick up a basketball again and even *gasp* turn on ESPN.

But if it helps, reading recent books (as in published in 2023/24) intended for your target audience is a good starting place - it will help you separate the books of your youth from the books which are being read today.



First piece of advice: understand what "younger" means.

It might be best to start figuring out what story you want to tell, and then determine which age range that story would be the fit. It's not uncommon (I speak from experience) for someone to write a YA only to be told it's actually MG or vice versa or (even worse) wouldn't fit into either category.

YA is technically 12-18 but in practice I think it ends up more like 15-18? Those more familiar can correct me if I'm wrong there.
8-12 is MG (and some people differentiate 'upper' from 'lower' MG - there is a noticeable difference in how a MG books for intended for 7th grader is written vs one for a 5th grader).
Chapter Books is usually 4th grade and lower (so 9 y/o) but some older kids who are late readers or just still like those reading those stories could be picking them up. Picture books fall into this category too, but they will skew to an even younger audience.

Each of these groups have different rules, conventions, and expectations. The only two that are pretty consistent is that the protagonist should be the same age as your intended reader (by 1-2 years, favoring older rather than younger) and that there should be very minimal adult involvement.

And just a friendly piece of advice from someone who made this mistake - avoid 13/14 y/o age range for your early attempts.
Technically, I think 13/14 falls into YA, but as some in this age can still be in junior high/middle school, it's hard to place if that story should follow YA or MG trends and conventions.

Thanks for the detailed response, all good advice.

Could you expand a little concerning 13-14 year-olds?

I'm working on a Christmas fantasy involving three orphaned children ages 9, 8, and 7. The intention is a story open to anyone who reads and might be interested in this type of story. This is a little different than what I usually write. I'm trying to concentrate on character development, and perhaps a human interest aspect. It is since I began this that I've given thought to writing for a younger audience.

If I go by the books that interested me, that would probably put me in the 10-12 area, but I'm also curious about the 15-18 audience. Do you (or anyone here) have any suggestions for these two groups? Hopefully, something not werewolf, witches and warlocks, or vampire? I know these are popular topics these days, but I feel like they've been beat to death, and wondering if anyone has broached something fresh.

 

[D. Geoffrey]

I mean, the Chronicles of Narnia feels like it skews younger than YA. I only remember reading the Lion, the Witch, and the Wardrobe, but I'm pretty sure that was more MG.

I would agree, and this age group appeals to me. Probably because I (still) feel there weren't enough books like this when I was that age.

As for a Christmas fantasy, I don't feel like that'd have much appeal in the YA space. Stuff like that is kinda niche in adult and then probably a bit more present in MG and younger.

I'd agree, and I'm okay with that. It's kind of an experiment in something that combines a realistic scenario with the fantasy surrounding Christmas then turning it upside down to present, as Paul Harvey liked to say, "... the rest of the story." I'm also trying to write in a manner that the exact time-frame isn't concrete, so "kids" of all ages can envision it as their own.

It's hard to succeed without interacting with your audience at some point, unless you're JD Salinger or something. And not many people are JD Salinger. In fact, right now, I don't think anybody is.

LOL

Thanks for the morning laugh, that's pretty good. Does your writing include quite a bit of humor?

 

[Sage]

I'm working on a Christmas fantasy involving three orphaned children ages 9, 8, and 7

Ah, then you are definitely not writing YA. You could be writing a kids book (maybe lower MG or a chapter book) or an adult book. I think it’s going to be obvious to you which you are writing because there’s so much difference between the kidlit and adult markets. I suspect your audience is adult.

ETA: kids mostly read older protagonists, so if you’re aiming for 10-12yo audience, you need at least those ages for your MCs.

 

[D. Geoffrey]

Ah, then you are definitely not writing YA. You could be writing a kids book (maybe lower MG or a chapter book) or an adult book. I think it’s going to be obvious to you which you are writing because there’s so much difference between the kidlit and adult markets. I suspect your audience is adult.

ETA: kids mostly read older protagonists, so if you’re aiming for 10-12yo audience, you need at least those ages for your MCs.

Agreed, this story isn't really a kid's book, though I hope to cross age barriers, at least a little. My nephew is reading it to his five year-old, lol, and she is enjoying it.

It was writing this that caused me to be curious about writing for kids. My niece is planning a picture book for small children, that also contributed to my curiosity.

I'm going to peruse the YA board to get an idea of what is going on in that universe.

 

[D. Geoffrey]

They're not, really. They're as diverse as any other age group. Many of them are really, really lovely.

It was, of course, just a little humor.

Very little, but humor nonetheless.

Kids today are, in my view, growing up fast. With ease of access to information not available to most when I was a kid, things are definitely different in a lot of ways. That's opinion of course.

From a general perspective, though, kids will be kids, I don't think that is ever going to change.

 

[D. Geoffrey]

My first suggestion is to read a lot of YA! This will give you a good idea of the current market, which is a long way from classics like Narnia.

I’m afraid you wont find too many Christmas fantasies, though. I can tell you from experience that they are hard to query. This is not meant to discourage you, just to keep your expectations in check. When I wrote my Christmas fantasy, I wrote it with no intention to query it.

Back to advice! Check out the stickied threads in this forum, where we have some good breakdowns of markets (note: they are older and may not be accurate for today’s market, at times). I usually point to three things: age, themes, voice.

Your MCs/POV characters must be teens. It is the hardest rule for YA. If adults are driving the plot, it’s not YA.

The book’s themes must feel like themes important to teens.

YA voice tends to be more immediate than adult voice, IMO. That’s not a hard and fast rule, just my observation reading a bunch of YA & adult books this year. Voice is extremely important in YA.

My best advice is to read lots of YA fantasy & other YA.

Oh, and lots of adults read YA, so don’t worry too much about getting adult readers if you market to teens.

Any suggestions about what books to take a look at?

 

[lizmonster]

Kids today are, in my view, growing up fast. With ease of access to information not available to most when I was a kid, things are definitely different in a lot of ways. That's opinion of course.

Different? Of course, and in good and bad ways. It's always been thus. I invite you to peruse historical writings by The Olds about teens of their time; they're strikingly similar.