Wynwidyn Press

[Pagebreaker]

I found a new publisher local to me, they seem to be new and they are publish pay. My question is, has anyone met them or been to there office?

They are very local to me, however the one editor / CEO Robin claims she learned poetry from Robert Frost? Is this a flag?

Here is there site http://www.wynwidynpress.com/

Any thoughts, help or ANY one who have worked with them please help.

 

[CheekyWench]

Looks like a vanity publisher. You pay them to print your book.


Robert Frost died in 1963.

 

[JL_Benet]

Robert Frost died in 1963.

That doesn't preclude people from having learned poetry from him. One of my poetry professors learned poetry from Frost when he was a Visiting Professor at the University of Michigan for a year. That said, he was apparently not a very good professor. I've since talked to a few people who studied under Frost and all of them admitted that Frost wasn't actually a very good academic. He was given the Writer-in-Residence positions more for the school's and students' bragging rights than because he was a particularly gifted teacher.

 

[triceretops]

Could have learned it while reading his works. This could be an implied statement.

 

[Pagebreaker]

According to the lady who owns the company (her Facebook page) where I found it at, she is 58, so she would have been 10 years old when Frost died.

I was not aware he died when he did. Thank you to all for the feedback. I think I will continue with my submissions. Also as I look further there are many things that will preclude me from using them.

We went to her offices today to see if they were in so I could talk to them, and it is at a tree farm, plant nursery. Her offices are on the side of a pole barn.

However to the plus side, I did while there get me some great shrubs.

 

[Ruth2]

According to the lady who owns the company (her Facebook page) where I found it at, she is 58, so she would have been 10 years old when Frost died.

I was not aware he died when he did. Thank you to all for the feedback. I think I will continue with my submissions. Also as I look further there are many things that will preclude me from using them.

We went to her offices today to see if they were in so I could talk to them, and it is at a tree farm, plant nursery. Her offices are on the side of a pole barn.

However to the plus side, I did while there get me some great shrubs.

lol! At least you got something good out of it.

 

[HapiSofi]

A good shrub is a thing of beauty. On the other hand, Wynwidyn's section on their proofreading services doesn't spell "proofread" correctly. Looks like you've already gotten the best of what they offer.

 

[triceretops]

Nice one, Hapi.

 

[KaylaD]

Wynwidyn Press is a very considerate, thorough, and author friendly publishing company. The owner is a very sweet woman who has been writing and publishing for decades. She was sick of seeing writers being taken advantage of so she created a publishing company for authors by authors. The prices are very reasonable, and from what I've researched, very competitive. You should call her and talk to her when they are open Monday - Friday from 9a-5p. The office is beautiful, with a real tree inside that has a dragon perched in its branches! Several of her authors are ones who have left less supportive, more expensive publishing companies. Robin Moyer is a valuable person to know. Wynwidyn Press is a good company to have out there for writers.

 

[jennontheisland]

Newbie with one post only, in defense of a pay to play, claiming those who left went on to pay more....

Hardly even worth reading that one.

 

[Wynwidyn Press]

Clearing the air

My name is Robin and Wynwidyn Press is my company. Yes, we are new. In fact our grand opening is Thursday, June 21st from 4:30-7pm. Those that are local are more than welcome to stop by and come see what we are about.

We are located at Ed Bock's Feeds and our office is just beyond the flowers on the right. No, not a tree farm, just a business that has been in Pinckney, Mi for almost twenty years. Is the office in a converted pole barn? Sure is!

I thought about and checked into numerous places for my office. On the main street, office/store fronts are renting for $8-12 a square foot! There is very little foot traffic as there are many empty buildings because not too many folks can afford the rent for 500+ sq feet. I've got almost twice that for far less. Seems like good business sense to me to use a place with lower rent and higher traffic volume!

Did I use 'Proof-read' verses 'proofread' on my site? Yes. I was making a point that a proofread is more than a spell check and that it is important to read the manuscript carefully.

Yes, I am a self-publishing small press. No, I am NOT a vanity press. A vanity press requires authors to buy x number of copies. I do not. There is a big difference between vanity presses and self-publishing ones. One benefit of self-publishing is that it allows authors to maintain the rights to their books. Another is that it gives writers a chance to get their work out there. Given the huge number of manuscripts the big publishers receive and the fact that many will not even look at 'unsolicited' manuscripts does not mean that there aren't excellent writers out there without the connections to get their foot in the door. Most writers would love to have that opportunity. The vast majority do not.

What I am trying to do is raise the bar and the reputation of self-publishing. I read manuscripts before accepting them. I am not a 'puppy-mill' publisher and if I feel a manuscript isn't ready or isn't one I feel I can market, I do not accept it. Self-published authors must work extra hard to market and sell their books. I believe that their publisher should work with them and help them accomplish this. It is most certainly a team effort. I work with my authors and am there for them. There are few guarantees in this life, but if one doesn't try then one has no chance to possibly succeed.

I am open M-F from 9-5. I certainly would come in to meet with an author on the weekend if they set up an appointment. My email and phone number on are my website and my hours are on the door. Many evenings I am on the phone with authors who cannot contact me during the day.

I am working with several authors as they finish their manuscripts. I encourage, edit, suggest. I have not received a dime from these specific authors as yet. Their manuscripts aren't to that level. If and when they are, we will move on to the next stage. Do I have signed authors? Yes. We will have several books coming out in the next few months.

Bottom line: as I mentioned earlier, I am a new business. It is a long-time dream and a passion. Any new business deserves the opportunity to succeed, the time to develop a reputation and the chance to serve its customers. That is all I ask.

 

[G. Applejack]

Hi there, Robin! Lovely website.

Yes, I am a self-publishing small press. No, I am NOT a vanity press. A vanity press requires authors to buy x number of copies. I do not. There is a big difference between vanity presses and self-publishing ones.

If I'm reading your website correctly, you are offering several packages starting at 400 dollars to publish with you. I'm still a little new (see my post count), but this is the definition of vanity press, right? The writer pays to publish.

Could you clarify? Thank you.

 

[MacAllister]

I'll note for purposes of transparency that "Wynwidyn Press" and "KaylaD" are registered to the same IP.

I approved both accounts knowing they shared an IP, but really hoping that she wouldn't do precisely what it looks like she's gone and done.

*sigh*

 

[Wynwidyn Press]

Hi. Vanity presses require you to buy copies of books etc. Self-publishing is quite different. If you choose to buy (and most do) that is fine, but if you don't, that is fine as well.

 

[Richard White]

So are you a publisher or a printer?

Vanity Press - book goes out with the publisher's name on it, author pays publisher to design and print the book. Whether the author buys them or the publisher sells them, is immaterial. If the author pays the publisher instead of the publisher paying the author, it's a vanity press.

A self-publisher's book goes out with their name on the book (either their personal name as publisher, their personal company name, or the printer's name (like CreateSpace or Lulu)). The author is acting as the publisher and as the publisher, they hire a printer to produce the books for them and the author is responsible for distribution and selling the book. That means, all the money, less printing cost and distribution costs, goes from the self-publisher (publisher) to the self-publisher (author).

If Wynwidyn Press is producing and selling books on the market and keeping royalties for acting as the publisher for books that the author has paid for, then yes, Wynwidyn Press is a vanity press.

If Wynwidyn Press is merely printing books for a set fee and the authors are not sharing royalties with Wynwidyn Press, then yes, Wynwidyn Press is a printer and not a vanity press.

There's really no middle ground.

 

[Wynwidyn Press]

MacAllister, Not sure what we did that is 'wrong.' I have no problem 'fessing' up to the fact that KaylaD does contract work for me. I've known her for years and quite honestly, she was, I expect, defending me because she knew I was upset because folks were knocking us for being in a 'pole barn' (like that means we are not legitimate) and we both were questioning a 'very local' person being unaware of what Ed Bock's Feeds and Stuff is in this community. (Feeds, lumber, gifts, furniture, flowers, etc.) Felt rather attacked when we've only been open for two weeks. If we did something wrong, I apologize. Certainly not my intention.

 

[MacAllister]

Thanks for clearing that up, Robin.

When accounts come in registered to the same IP in these situations, it's all too often one person pretending to be one or more objective onlookers -- those are sometimes called "sockpuppet" accounts.

I appreciate you addressing my concerns so directly.

 

[Theo81]

My name is Robin and Wynwidyn Press is my company. Yes, we are new. In fact our grand opening is Thursday, June 21st from 4:30-7pm. Those that are local are more than welcome to stop by and come see what we are about.

We are located at Ed Bock's Feeds and our office is just beyond the flowers on the right. No, not a tree farm, just a business that has been in Pinckney, Mi for almost twenty years. Is the office in a converted pole barn? Sure is!

I thought about and checked into numerous places for my office. On the main street, office/store fronts are renting for $8-12 a square foot! There is very little foot traffic as there are many empty buildings because not too many folks can afford the rent for 500+ sq feet. I've got almost twice that for far less. Seems like good business sense to me to use a place with lower rent and higher traffic volume!

At my local garden centre, they have a building at the front they rent out. It's formally been a Farm Shop (selling produce). These days it's the office of a gravestone maker

If you don't already, make sure you have clear signage, and that if somebody goes there during office hours, you're in it.

Did I use 'Proof-read' verses 'proofread' on my site? Yes. I was making a point that a proofread is more than a spell check and that it is important to read the manuscript carefully.

I don't understand. Are you telling me you made a deliberate error to highlight the importance of proofreading? Or are you using the word proof-read because, to you, it's something different that proofreading? Because a proofread *is* more than a spell check.

Yes, I am a self-publishing small press. No, I am NOT a vanity press. A vanity press requires authors to buy x number of copies. I do not

.

Wrong. There are presses which provide services to self-publishers - these are called printers.
There are work-for-hire services companies like Telemachus (and which I don't know enough about to know if they are any good or not - I suspect you are unlikely to get back what you paid them)
There are vanity presses which require authors to buy x number of copies and pay royalties.
There are vanity presses which require authors to pay them up front and pay royalties.
There are "subsidy publishers" which are vanity presses who are pretending not to be - same deal though, because the author pays money up front and the publisher pays royalties.

There is a big difference between vanity presses and self-publishing ones.

Yes, there is. A self-publisher is the publisher, so they hire the editor and the printer themselves. A vanity press makes the author pay for the things a publishing house would normally pay for.

One benefit of self-publishing is that it allows authors to maintain the rights to their books.

This is only a benefit if the author gets offered a better deal as a result of their work and hence, has no contract to get out of. How useful do you think this ability is to the majority of authors?

Another is that it gives writers a chance to get their work out there.

And why does this help? Especially when I can get my work out there for free?

Given the huge number of manuscripts the big publishers receive and the fact that many will not even look at 'unsolicited' manuscripts does not mean that there aren't excellent writers out there without the connections to get their foot in the door.

WRONG. WRONG. WRONG.

Yes, if you send an MS to HarperCollins, it will languish unread. HC are not open to Unsols (IIRC).
If you send an MS to Cannongate (top independent UK publisher, present home of Dan Rhodes, Scarlett Thomas and ... er ... Julian Assange. Maybe we'll gloss over that one.), it will get read. They are open to unsolicited submissions.

If you are desperate to be with a big 6 pub, you will need to get an agent. I know of more agents open to unsols than closed. I know of FAR more writers with agents (and pub deals) who got them without credits, or connections, or feet in the door.

Most writers would love to have that opportunity. The vast majority do not.

They do if they follow submissions guidelines.

What I am trying to do is raise the bar and the reputation of self-publishing. I read manuscripts before accepting them.

If YOU are accepting them, YOU are the publisher. Don't you understand that? A self-publisher is somebody who acts as publisher, writer, marketer, everything. It's not some magic deal because a publisher isn't "taking" your royalties, it's that you are getting paid to be the publisher.

I am not a 'puppy-mill' publisher and if I feel a manuscript isn't ready or isn't one I feel I can market, I do not accept it.

What's your acceptance rate?

Self-published authors must work extra hard to market and sell their books. I believe that their publisher should work with them and help them accomplish this. It is most certainly a team effort. I work with my authors and am there for them. There are few guarantees in this life, but if one doesn't try then one has no chance to possibly succeed.

So ... what do you do? Send encouraging emails? Or do you have a marketing strategy in place, media connections, the ability to get books in stores...?

I am open M-F from 9-5. I certainly would come in to meet with an author on the weekend if they set up an appointment. My email and phone number on are my website and my hours are on the door. Many evenings I am on the phone with authors who cannot contact me during the day.

Grand.

I am working with several authors as they finish their manuscripts. I encourage, edit, suggest. I have not received a dime from these specific authors as yet. Their manuscripts aren't to that level. If and when they are, we will move on to the next stage. Do I have signed authors? Yes. We will have several books coming out in the next few months.

So, you have authors making changes, but you don't have them under contract. Normally, I'd be unhappy about that, but as you're charging, I suppose that's a good thing. To be on your "side" for a moment, what are you going to do if these authors take these MS and take them elsewhere?

Bottom line: as I mentioned earlier, I am a new business. It is a long-time dream and a passion.

Yeah, there's an index thread at the top. See the grey links? They're all the people who were once this. Now they aren't anything.

Any new business deserves the opportunity to succeed, the time to develop a reputation and the chance to serve its customers. That is all I ask.

Ridiculous. Should a business who sends Bibles instead of food to starving people "deserve" the opportunity to succeed?

Your business damages authors. You are spreading the same lies we see from all those vanity presses who wouldn't be in business if people didn't believe you had to pay to be published.

You are acting as a publisher, but you claim to be a self-publishing company. That is nonsense. If you are an author services company, that's different altogether and I would judge you differently.

You sound like you don't know anything about anything and when that happens, authors need to run very quickly in the opposite direction.



I'd also like you to address the mention of Robert Frost mentioned up-thread.

 

[Wynwidyn Press]

MacAllister...never would have dawned on me that folks do that as both Kayla and I are listed on our website! But then I guess maybe I should have because one never really knows who the folks are....

In general...
No question that there are companies out there that do not treat their authors fairly, responsibly or ethically. We are trying to create a company that is the best of all worlds and that gets author's work out there. Call it a small press, vanity or self-publishing...we are providing a service (editing, layouts, covers, marketing etc.) and getting paid to do so. The aim is for my company to make money and for my authors to make their money back through their royalties and then go on to make more money. For all of us, it is really a labor of love because if the reason someone is writing is simply to get rich, personally, I think they are writing for the wrong reason. I feel one should write because they can't not.

 

[Terie]

Call it a small press, vanity or self-publishing...we are providing a service (editing, layouts, covers, marketing etc.) and getting paid to do so. The aim is for my company to make money and for my authors to make their money back through their royalties and then go on to make more money.

Okay, so this clarifies it: you're a vanity press.

Some more questions (in which 'you' means 'you Wynwidyn Press' not necessarily 'you personally'):

What expericence do you have getting books onto bookshop shelves? Not so much locally, but at a national level.

What experience do you have working with the major book reviewers, to ensure your authors' books will get reviewed?

What are your marketing plans?

What experience do you have editing the work of others to a publishable standard?

What levels of editing do you offer, and what is your experience with these various levels?

What experience do you have with interior book design?

What experience do you have with exterior book design?

What other experience do you have in the publishing industry?

 

[Bartholomew]

The submission page is very interesting. Is my understanding that you're offering to critique a work at no charge?

From the submission page:

Our reputation is as important to us
as your legacy is to you

Submissions are not automatic endorsements for publication. Though many publishers would gladly take your money and turn you loose, we believe it's in your best interest to first get acquainted while we evaluate your manuscript. It's free.

We do expect works to be complete and edited to final revision status before we give you an honest review of its content, offer constructive input, and discuss options before moving forward.

After all, we share a common goal... that your book is the best it can be if we're to work together for fine tuning, publishing, and promoting it.

It's a very unusual method, and there's enough white collar crime in the writing world that I hope you'll understand my concern about it. A free critique followed by an offer for paid editing services (which is how I'm interpreting " and discuss options before moving forward.") makes trusting the critique very hard.

Your market appears to be writers who want a beautiful book and the satisfaction of having produced it. Your website is quite attractive, so I have no doubt that you could design a high quality book.

That said, I think you might have a different understanding of the term "vanity publisher" than this community does. And despite the connotations connected with the term, there's nothing wrong with vanity publishers--they're just not equipped to get my novel into B&N.

You have a marketing page, but could you go into a bit more detail about what the marketing staff at your company does? If I published with you, I'd be selling my books on my own, it seems like. Press releases don't exactly move books, and newspapers typically only run them on slow news days.

I looked at the various editor profiles you've got on your website, and I've got to say I'm underwhelmed at the credentials and the writing. If I paid for the editing service, I feel like I'd be paying for a beta reader. You might consider recasting the service in that light, since I could pay similar fees to names I recognize from the industry do the same thing for me. I was also somewhat concerned that the CEO's editor's profile had an avatar rather than a photo, unlike the other three.

Despite being attractive, your website has every red flag I've been trained to look for in the past ten years. I can't tell if you're sincere and just new to the idea of publishing, or if you're something a bit darker. Either way, there's nothing short of an overhaul that could win my endorsement. Not that you asked, I suppose, but I assume you're interested in hearing from writers.

 

[Wynwidyn Press]

I met Robert Frost as a child. I was visiting my grandmother in Vermont. He listened to me read my poems. He read them too. He told me how important it was to revise and rework writing. He told me that he revised his poetry all the time. I had no clue then exactly who he was except that he seemed really old. Only when I was older did I understand just who it was that I'd been so fortunate to meet.

When I first posted, I thought I would accomplish something. I hoped to. I thought that comments such as being in a pole barn, not being there on a weekend and being on a 'tree farm' were kind of disparaging given that no one called, or emailed or came in that seemed to have those issues. But I opted to respond, invite locals to come check us out, and then I'd go back to editing the manuscript I was working on.

Clearly not. That's okay. We are all entitled to our opinions. Regardless of what one calls what I do, there are authors who want to hold their book in their hands and have it out there. Some choose to go the Lulu or Author House or Create Space route. Some would rather pay someone to do that work for them. They want the editing, they don't know how to do layouts or a stick figure is all they can draw. They may have no clue how to set up a book signing, write a press release or do an interview. We help them do that. If they need or want a special service, we do our best to find that for them. Books sell, they get their royalties. The royalties are theirs.

We encourage authors to do their research and find what method is best for them to achieve their dream. For some this route makes them happy. For others, it becomes clear they want to pursue being published by the standard presses. We discuss what they want and what they need. Some have bigger plans than others; some are more motivated. Everyone is different. Some want that logo on the back of their book. Some want their book to be available to the books stores and to get on distribution lists. Some just want E-books.

It is their book. It is what they want that matters. Whichever method they choose to follow is what is right for them.


Did I answer all the reams of questions? I know I did not. Feeling a bit like I am on trial here. I have good people working with me. We do our best because we believe in our authors and ourselves.


And yes, I believe that people trying to start a new company deserve the chance to stand or fail on their own merit and the job they do delivering what their customers want. If there weren't people out there wanting to publish their books or get them published, there'd be no issue. But there is and there are.

Maybe this helped. Maybe not. I'm just trying to make my little company a success, make my authors happy and make a few dreams come true. I realize the majority here firmly believe in the --for lack of a better term--old fashioned-time honored method of publishing. That is fine. I doubt anything I could say will change anyone's mind. That's okay too. We've all had our say. I wish you all well in your endeavors and may you all achieve your dreams. It is what we all want after all, isn't it?

G'night

 

[Wynwidyn Press]

Bartholomew, actually, you brought up valid points and I thank you! I do need to get a picture up there...and the critique was more of a 'is it submission ready.' Many folks will submit a manuscript to a 'vanity press' that hasn't even been spell checked! That is more of what I meant as well as ascertaining that it is a manuscript that I feel would be a good fit and one we can market. I will look into the other things as well!

Thanking you for your suggestions....

 

[eternalised]

Hey Robin,

Thank you for coming here and expressing the views and goals of your company.

I'm not sure if I understand this correctly though. You say you're not a vanity publisher. You set up everything from editing to layout to marketing of the book, for a fixed rate, and then all the author gets are royalties? If the author got the full price of the book minus reduction for distributions every time a book sold, your company could probably be called a service company for self-publishers. However, as it now stands, by taking both a fixed price up front and publisher royalties afterward, you're definitely entering vanity press territory here.

This is the Bewares thread. We try to keep authors from making mistakes here that could be bad for themselves and their books. We generally advise authors to keep away from vanity presses. If their book is good enough, someone will publish it, without them having to pay a lot of money for it. There are a lot of small publishers out there who publish books without asking a dime from their authors. They provide many of the same services you do - except without charge. You say 'authors earn money back through royalties'. Hopefully they will. If you're confident they will, why not get rid of the vanity aspect of your press, and make it into the standard small press, where you earn back your costs for editing, marketing, etc. through royalties? The authors are already taking a big risk by giving their manuscript to you, but instead of taking the financial risk, vanity presses put it on the author as well....Giving them a double risk.

I see that you're a well meaning person, and I like your website layout. You've been straightforward and honest this entire time, which I was why I don't understand you're so keen to ask money from your authors up front. You're confident the author will make back the $1300 they pay to have their book published. If you're that confident, you could pay it out of your own pockets (the publisher pockets then, I mean) and earn it back yourselves as well. Unless you're not sure about that at all.

And yes, I believe that people trying to start a new company deserve the chance to stand or fail on their own merit and the job they do delivering what their customers want. If there weren't people out there wanting to publish their books or get them published, there'd be no issue. But there is and there are.

Maybe this helped. Maybe not. I'm just trying to make my little company a success, make my authors happy and make a few dreams come true. I realize the majority here firmly believe in the --for lack of a better term--old fashioned-time honored method of publishing. That is fine. I doubt anything I could say will change anyone's mind. That's okay too. We've all had our say. I wish you all well in your endeavors and may you all achieve your dreams. It is what we all want after all, isn't it?

I've seen this attitude time and time again by mostly clueless publishers who feel they're helping authors out. People have said some very valuable information here. You're new to the publishing business, some people here have been in it for years. Listen to them. You're a professional. You want your business to be professional. It's time to start acting like it. Instead of avoiding the questions, start answering them.

Terie asked some very interesting questions we probably all want to know the answer of:

What expericence do you have getting books onto bookshop shelves? Not so much locally, but at a national level.

What experience do you have working with the major book reviewers, to ensure your authors' books will get reviewed?

What are your marketing plans?

What experience do you have editing the work of others to a publishable standard?

What levels of editing do you offer, and what is your experience with these various levels?

What experience do you have with interior book design?

What experience do you have with exterior book design?

What other experience do you have in the publishing industry?

They're not that hard. It's your business. You should know these things. More importantly, your authors deserve to know this up front. People interested in submitting to you, deserve to know it as well.

And turn it as you may, until you stop charging people for services such as editing, book design, etc., you're a vanity press.

 

[Terie]

Did I answer all the reams of questions? I know I did not. Feeling a bit like I am on trial here. I have good people working with me. We do our best because we believe in our authors and ourselves.

Well, in a way, you are 'on trial' here.... just as anyone in any business is 'on trial' when it comes to prospective clients.

When I need work done on my house, I seek quotes from qualified contracting companies. I ask about their background and qualifications. Same for when I'm looking for a car mechanic. Or a hairdresser. Or a tailor. Or a reflexologist.

Why should publishing be any different?

I asked you a series of questions that anyone seeking out the kinds of sevices you provide will want to know the answers to. Your refusal to answer those very basic, pertinent question suggests that you don't have -- and that you know you don't have -- satisfactory answers.

Please, prove me wrong by answering those questions so that writers researching your company can see your answers. This thread is currently the number 6 hit when your company is Googled (and chances are it will rise), so it's in your best interest to provide good info here. Otherwise, potential customers will write you off.

I realize the majority here firmly believe in the --for lack of a better term--old fashioned-time honored method of publishing.

And this assumption would be wrong. I'm currently involved with a self/vanity publishing project. The writer is deceased and her widower is having her manuscripts published for friends and family. He chose to go with a vanity publisher because, he being someone who isn't actually a writer or interested in being involved with self-publishing, that made the most sense. We researched several vanity publishers and went with one that has a reputation for providing good value and service for money. It was actually the outfit recommended by his wife's agent; several of her clients have used this outfit for books that weren't suitable for the commercial market but that they wanted to get 'out there'.

If you want your company to be recognised as an outfit that provides good value and service for money, the first step you can take is to answer the legitimate questions being asked in this thread about your experience and business practices.

Oh, and the most common terms for the 'old fashioned-time honored method of publishing' are 'trade publishing' and 'commercial publishing'. This is something that someone operating in the publishing industry ought to know.