Does anyone know anything about Wayman Publishing ? Good or bad? http://waymanpublishing.webs.com/
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Wayman Publishing
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No names of staff or any other info on the "about us" page. They don't pay the authors whose work they publish in anthologies. They seem pretty clueless about how things work:
Hi Lisa17,
I'm new to this site, but noticed your question and thought I might respond. I was published through Wayman Publishing in August (Middle Damned, available online at amazon, barnes and noble and through WaymanPublishing.com). I have been very happy with the results so far. They may not be a traditional publisher, but I can say they are not clueless and they have treated me fairly. For instance,
Wayman paid for the editing.
Wayman paid for the cover art, and
Wayman is using its network of blogs and social events, both online and at regional stores to promote my book. Just last weekend I had a table at the Utah Book Fair at the downtown SLC library.
As of today, Wayman has recouped the costs it incurred in publishing my book. Furthermore, the percentage of profits I receive on my book is much higher than I could have ever hoped to have gotten with another publisher. I get 50% of all profits and that includes any books they sell on their website or at brick and mortar events.
I can't say Wayman would give anyone the same deal I have. I can say that I tried the traditional publisher route without success and Wayman has given me the opportunity to get my book out there. With them I've had the advantage of an online advertising savvy I could never have hoped to gain on my own. The primary blog is at ecwrites.com, with over 2000 followers and 300,000 page views.
I hope this helps. For me, it was an excellent alternative to traditional publishing.
I'm new to this site, but noticed your question and thought I might respond. I was published through Wayman Publishing in August (Middle Damned, available online at amazon, barnes and noble and through WaymanPublishing.com). I have been very happy with the results so far. They may not be a traditional publisher, but I can say they are not clueless and they have treated me fairly. For instance,
Wayman paid for the editing.
Wayman paid for the cover art, and
Wayman is using its network of blogs and social events, both online and at regional stores to promote my book. Just last weekend I had a table at the Utah Book Fair at the downtown SLC library.
As of today, Wayman has recouped the costs it incurred in publishing my book. Furthermore, the percentage of profits I receive on my book is much higher than I could have ever hoped to have gotten with another publisher. I get 50% of all profits and that includes any books they sell on their website or at brick and mortar events.
I can't say Wayman would give anyone the same deal I have. I can say that I tried the traditional publisher route without success and Wayman has given me the opportunity to get my book out there. With them I've had the advantage of an online advertising savvy I could never have hoped to gain on my own. The primary blog is at ecwrites.com, with over 2000 followers and 300,000 page views.
I hope this helps. For me, it was an excellent alternative to traditional publishing.
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Welcome and thanks for stepping into the ring.
Pretty awesome that you got a table at your book fair. Just to clarify (even though it's implied), but Wayman were the ones who set up your table right? Also, just out of curiosity, I think we'd all benefit a little more from some further details on these "recouped" costs. What exactly was deducted from your initial sales?
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So, in the process of 'recouping' their costs, were you paid anything at all? If not this does not sound like an excellent alternative to anything, to me.
I would be interested to know what you experience was like in terms of copies sold and percent of cover price you earned from those copies (total income of author, divided by number sold, divided by cover price). If this compares favorably to other presses, then good for you an for them. That is the bottom line and everything else is just semantics.
I would be interested to know what you experience was like in terms of copies sold and percent of cover price you earned from those copies (total income of author, divided by number sold, divided by cover price). If this compares favorably to other presses, then good for you an for them. That is the bottom line and everything else is just semantics.
Victoria,
In general the profit is the price at which the book was sold minus the costs to buy the book. This varies depending on the venue in which it is sold. Wayman still paid me my 50% while they were recovering their non-recurring costs of editing and cover art design.
It costs my publisher $5/copy to procure my book. They take my book to book fairs and sell it for $9 for a $4 profit. I get $2 of this and my publisher the other $2.
If the book is sold on amazon.com, it is an entirely different matter. Amazon gets a cut in that instance. I forget what their percentage is, but it is pretty steep. I think the profit goes down to $2-3 dollars in that case, split between Wayman and myself. However, we get to set the price and the profit margin on amazon. After discussions with Wayman, I choose to have a lower priced book, with lower profits, and hopeful get more sales. I am a new author and think this is a better strategy for me.
In general the profit is the price at which the book was sold minus the costs to buy the book. This varies depending on the venue in which it is sold. Wayman still paid me my 50% while they were recovering their non-recurring costs of editing and cover art design.
It costs my publisher $5/copy to procure my book. They take my book to book fairs and sell it for $9 for a $4 profit. I get $2 of this and my publisher the other $2.
If the book is sold on amazon.com, it is an entirely different matter. Amazon gets a cut in that instance. I forget what their percentage is, but it is pretty steep. I think the profit goes down to $2-3 dollars in that case, split between Wayman and myself. However, we get to set the price and the profit margin on amazon. After discussions with Wayman, I choose to have a lower priced book, with lower profits, and hopeful get more sales. I am a new author and think this is a better strategy for me.
Dalton,
Wayman did not deduct from my percentage during the period of time they recouped their costs. I got 50% of the profit from the beginning.
The usual scenario is that Wayman gets a booth at an event, pays for the costs and sells the books they want to. This is how they did it at the recent young adult book fair in Orange County.
The event I mentioned in SLC was a special case. I found the opportunity, wanted to go and negotiated the event with Wayman. I ended up splitting the fees with my publisher, 50-50. This was under the agreement that I would bring other Wayman publishing books with me to the fair. I'm a new, unknown author, so this seemed reasonable to me.
Wayman did not deduct from my percentage during the period of time they recouped their costs. I got 50% of the profit from the beginning.
The usual scenario is that Wayman gets a booth at an event, pays for the costs and sells the books they want to. This is how they did it at the recent young adult book fair in Orange County.
The event I mentioned in SLC was a special case. I found the opportunity, wanted to go and negotiated the event with Wayman. I ended up splitting the fees with my publisher, 50-50. This was under the agreement that I would bring other Wayman publishing books with me to the fair. I'm a new, unknown author, so this seemed reasonable to me.
Dalton,
Just to be clear, even though there was technically no profit until after Wayman recouped their non-recurring costs, Wayman still payed me 50% of the difference between the cost to print the book and the price it was sold for.
Just to be clear, even though there was technically no profit until after Wayman recouped their non-recurring costs, Wayman still payed me 50% of the difference between the cost to print the book and the price it was sold for.
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So, you actually get royalties of %22 of cover price (so that we can compare apples to apples in royalty rates).
Edited to add:
What was the range of royalty rates you found other publishers offering? Do you remember the low and high end, other than 2 Moons?
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Shane, I've looked you up on amazon because I wanted to see the quality of the writing of the press.
I notice your surname is Stilson.
On Goodreads your book is reviewed by one EC Stilson, also a Wayman published author.
On EC Stilson's website, she links to her twitter page: @ECwrites upon which she is identified as Elisabeth Hirsch - who is an editor at Wayman.
Press owners are welcomed here. It's always preferable to get answers from the horses mouth. Go and take a look at the Storm Moon press thread for somebody behaving incredibly well in this situation.
Now, is this a coincidence or have you some relationship with this press you haven't mentioned? If so, it may be wise to start again.
Also, the first page of your novel - if there are only two people speaking to each other, they don't need to say each others' names in every single line of dialogue.
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I note that on Amazon and in interviews EC Stilson and Hirsch are clearly identified as the same person. So havng another unrelated Stilson author is possible but would be quite a coincidence.
http://indiesupporter.com/2011/11/interview-with-ec-stilson-author-of-the-golden-sky/
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/A1T1BLRK7Y/?tag=absowrit-20
http://indiesupporter.com/2011/11/interview-with-ec-stilson-author-of-the-golden-sky/
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/A1T1BLRK7Y/?tag=absowrit-20
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Wayland has a link "Get PUblished" at their website, but it only talks about an anthology. Where are the submission guidelines for novels?
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I win a cookie:
Our MiddleDamned is EC Stilson's brother
Dude. Seriously. I get that you want to defend the press because you are their author. I get that you want to defend the press where you sister works (or does she part-own it too?).
What I do not get is the constant, epic stupidity of people coming to this board, trying to pretend they don't have any connection other than being an absolutely, genuine author who is dead happy with their experience and you should all totes submit here cos they're great and they don't charge for editing or anything.
I really, really hope this was YOUR epic stupidity and not done with the knowledge or encouragement of anybody at Wayland.
Our MiddleDamned is EC Stilson's brother
Dude. Seriously. I get that you want to defend the press because you are their author. I get that you want to defend the press where you sister works (or does she part-own it too?).
What I do not get is the constant, epic stupidity of people coming to this board, trying to pretend they don't have any connection other than being an absolutely, genuine author who is dead happy with their experience and you should all totes submit here cos they're great and they don't charge for editing or anything.
I really, really hope this was YOUR epic stupidity and not done with the knowledge or encouragement of anybody at Wayland.
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Indeed it is. Who would've known. This is interesting:
Does this mean if they rigorously edit the voice out of my manuscript that I don't have any say? I thought the author got the last say.
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We need a "bingo" square for people who come here pretending not to have any connection with the press other than being a deliriously happy author.
Actually several squares. One for the publisher themselves, one for the publisher's spouse, one for employees, and one for other close friends and family -- since this plays out in so many permutations.
Actually several squares. One for the publisher themselves, one for the publisher's spouse, one for employees, and one for other close friends and family -- since this plays out in so many permutations.
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Our MiddleDamned is EC Stilson's brother
Which explains why MiddleDamned said this:
So what are the standard contractual terms for a writer not related to someone who works for or is possibly an owner of the press?
~brianm~
Wayman confusion
Wow! Thought I was getting some info until MiddleDamned's cover was blown. Now don't know what to think. Anyone unrelated have a Wayman experience?
Wow! Thought I was getting some info until MiddleDamned's cover was blown. Now don't know what to think. Anyone unrelated have a Wayman experience?
Lisa17,
Wow. Cover blown? If I were trying to hide something, I wouldn't have listed my book, or used such an obvious user name. I don't own any part of Wayman Publishing. I AM related to the owners, and am certainly not ashamed of it. Wayman pays for the editing and cover art for ALL of its authors. I am under the impression that their standard contract is a 50-50 split of the net proceeds on book sales, although I don’t know this for certain for all of their writers. (Net is sales price minus cost to print)
If you can get picked up by one of the big publishers, you should. I tried that route myself, along with querying over a hundred agents. I was not successful there. For writers like veinglory, Wayman may not be the best alternative because the website supporting those books is very nicely done. For people like me, who have little internet savvy, or presence it IS an excellent alternative. Advertising is difficult and costly, and is the main reason I didn't try to make it on my own.
Finally, I don't know think any of Wayman's other authors have accounts on this site. Most have blogs and I’m quite sure they judiciously check reader comments. You should drop by their blogs and ask your questions of them.
Their blogs can be found at the bottom of the following link.
http://waymanpublishing.webs.com/authors.htm
Finally, I have actually enjoyed the discussion and I thank you all for allowing me to be part of it. Good luck on what ever project you are working on. If in the unlikely case you would like to continue the discussion in a different venue, I am available at middledamned.com or middledamned.blogspot.com.
Cheers
Wow. Cover blown? If I were trying to hide something, I wouldn't have listed my book, or used such an obvious user name. I don't own any part of Wayman Publishing. I AM related to the owners, and am certainly not ashamed of it. Wayman pays for the editing and cover art for ALL of its authors. I am under the impression that their standard contract is a 50-50 split of the net proceeds on book sales, although I don’t know this for certain for all of their writers. (Net is sales price minus cost to print)
If you can get picked up by one of the big publishers, you should. I tried that route myself, along with querying over a hundred agents. I was not successful there. For writers like veinglory, Wayman may not be the best alternative because the website supporting those books is very nicely done. For people like me, who have little internet savvy, or presence it IS an excellent alternative. Advertising is difficult and costly, and is the main reason I didn't try to make it on my own.
Finally, I don't know think any of Wayman's other authors have accounts on this site. Most have blogs and I’m quite sure they judiciously check reader comments. You should drop by their blogs and ask your questions of them.
Their blogs can be found at the bottom of the following link.
http://waymanpublishing.webs.com/authors.htm
Finally, I have actually enjoyed the discussion and I thank you all for allowing me to be part of it. Good luck on what ever project you are working on. If in the unlikely case you would like to continue the discussion in a different venue, I am available at middledamned.com or middledamned.blogspot.com.
Cheers
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Which, by your own math in a post above (which I quoted previously), amounts to royalties of about 22% of the cover price.
You say that this is "much higher" than you could get "anywhere else", which is why I was interested in the range of royalty offers that you had encountered.
No one said that you should be "ashamed" of being related to the publishers -- that would be preposterous. But even if you are getting the exact same deal as other writers would, being related creates an unavoidable bias, which should be disclosed. (For instance, my S.O. is an amazing photographer whom I would happily and recommend to anyone. But I always disclose that the guy I'm recommending is my life partner -- because no matter how honest my recommendation of him is, it's impossible for it to be unbiased.)
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Omission, IMHO, counts as deception. It would be fully honest to disclose any basis for partiality in your post rather than requiring a connections of dots. Intentional or not the optics on that are not good for the average impartial observer and it would be wiser to acknowledge that than to deny it.
Linda Jeane,
Around 15% hardcover sell price and 20% of publisher receipts on e-books.
Sorry for not answering you before. I was a little preoccupied with the other comments.
I think I'm about done with this thread, so feel free to contact me at middledamned.com or middledamned.blogspot.com
FYI
http://www.authorsguild.org/advocacy/articles/e-book-royalty-math-the-big.html
Around 15% hardcover sell price and 20% of publisher receipts on e-books.
Sorry for not answering you before. I was a little preoccupied with the other comments.
I think I'm about done with this thread, so feel free to contact me at middledamned.com or middledamned.blogspot.com
FYI
http://www.authorsguild.org/advocacy/articles/e-book-royalty-math-the-big.html