I would venture to say that a lot of romance fans don't know or care about the route the author took to publication. But they have the same expectations. Although the self-published often have cliff-hangers and sequels before they hit the HEA.
Venturing into romance
- Thread starter Brigid Barry
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That's the challenge and the appeal of romance. The challenge is making the story interesting, maybe even tense, despite the reader knowing how it will end. The appeal is the security and comfort it offers readers. I pick up romances when I want to feel good, and I know I will feel good because the stories will end happily.
And even though romance readers don't wonder if the main characters will end up together, that still leaves plenty of room for suspense and uncertainty. I once wrote a romance where, at the end of the first chapter, one of the heroes deliberately shot the other in the back of the head, intending to kill him. I guess their relationship could only improve from there.
Exactly. We read for the character arc...how the couple changes to end up together. The process rather than the result. I'm writing my first one right now and it's an incredible challenge as, at first glance, the couple shouldn't be together at all.That's the challenge and the appeal of romance. The challenge is making the story interesting, maybe even tense, despite the reader knowing how it will end. The appeal is the security and comfort it offers readers. I pick up romances when I want to feel good, and I know I will feel good because the stories will end happily.
And even though romance readers don't wonder if the main characters will end up together, that still leaves plenty of room for suspense and uncertainty. I once wrote a romance where, at the end of the first chapter, one of the heroes deliberately shot the other in the back of the head, intending to kill him. I guess their relationship could only improve from there.
To make it interesting and plausible and give you all the feels...that's what romance is all about. Relationship fantasy. Since none of us would be here without romance (I hope), an important form of literature, imo!
I've been a romance reader for almost 60 years. I began hoping to better understand women so that I could seduce them. But what they taught me was that women are people too. Just like me, they wanted a better life, an interesting job, friends, and family. They have heartbreaks, hopes dashed, and the usual exigencies of normal life.
I still read romances. What I get out of them is NOT the story arc, discovering just how the author turns a third-act disaster into a HEA. What I get out of them is the company of people I like to spend time with. I do get that in my real life, but romances give me more of them, a wider circle of friends. Romances for me are not an escape FROM, but a trip TO.
That's why I read my favorite romances over and over as the years go by. I'm revisiting my friends.
I even tried writing a romance three times, the last two after I'd published several books that continue earning still despite their ancient pedigree. I'm an accomplished writer. But good romances are HARD. So if you are having trouble writing one that is likely the main reason, not that you are incompetent.
I still read romances. What I get out of them is NOT the story arc, discovering just how the author turns a third-act disaster into a HEA. What I get out of them is the company of people I like to spend time with. I do get that in my real life, but romances give me more of them, a wider circle of friends. Romances for me are not an escape FROM, but a trip TO.
That's why I read my favorite romances over and over as the years go by. I'm revisiting my friends.
I even tried writing a romance three times, the last two after I'd published several books that continue earning still despite their ancient pedigree. I'm an accomplished writer. But good romances are HARD. So if you are having trouble writing one that is likely the main reason, not that you are incompetent.
Ooh, a different but equally valid viewpoint! I guess I do that too...
So this speaks to a question I've been thinking of bringing here:
I've just finished my first romance and it doesn't create warm fuzzies, at least not till the very end. (HEA duly provided and it's very happy.) There's a lot of longing but there's also a lot of anger. The conflict that comes between the lovers is extremely serious, they become antagonists to each other on a matter of life and death, there are some lies involved and each feels bitterly betrayed by the other. Only drastic and courageous personal change enables them to trust each other again and reunite. But they do long for each other intensely, all through their anger. Still--not warm and happy!
And I'm not basing this just on what you said, Norsebard, but what you said seems to me to reflect what a couple of beta readers have told me--my book doesn't quite "feel" like a romance. My lovers don't spend enough time on the page together, and too much of the time they do spend is antagonistic. (And there's a lot of focus on the war their country's fighting.) Someone who's looking to feel good is going to have to really wait for it. I mean basically I can give them Chapter 2, Chapters 8 and 9, and Chapters 29 and 30. "Poignant" might be the word for the extent of the positive emotions in the rest.
But my book is definitely a romance by this definition--if you stripped out the romance, you'd be left with a number of episodic subplots and a single longer subplot that really doesn't qualify as a "spine," especially given it only really starts at the midpoint. And to my mind the nature of the third-act conflict precludes this from being called suspense or even romantic suspense. It's perfectly clear by then that both protagonists will survive--the war is over and the question really is what happens now, in the wreckage left behind; "will they be together at the end?" is THE question of the novel. (I mean for climax questions there's also "will Secondary Character X survive?" and "Why the hell does SC Y seem to want SC X dead?" But like I said, subplots. Resolving these wouldn't be enough.)
But it doesn't feel like a romance! Have I created an unsaleable hybrid?? Where is the "romantic drama" category?? (Outside of movies I mean.) If it's hiding somewhere, please tell me!
(I've wondered if I should try the litfic world. As possibly being the right refuge for someone who didn't write to genre, no matter how cogently she was told she should, but only to story. I haven't dipped my toe in yet. I may have some wrong ideas of what's out there, I don't know. I would describe my ending as "bittersweet and uplifting" and my perception of litfic is that "uplifting" could be disqualifying.)
Extremely grateful for any advice. So sorry for such a long post.
Is there such a thing as high-conflict romance, and where is its niche if so?
I've just finished my first romance and it doesn't create warm fuzzies, at least not till the very end. (HEA duly provided and it's very happy.) There's a lot of longing but there's also a lot of anger. The conflict that comes between the lovers is extremely serious, they become antagonists to each other on a matter of life and death, there are some lies involved and each feels bitterly betrayed by the other. Only drastic and courageous personal change enables them to trust each other again and reunite. But they do long for each other intensely, all through their anger. Still--not warm and happy!
And I'm not basing this just on what you said, Norsebard, but what you said seems to me to reflect what a couple of beta readers have told me--my book doesn't quite "feel" like a romance. My lovers don't spend enough time on the page together, and too much of the time they do spend is antagonistic. (And there's a lot of focus on the war their country's fighting.) Someone who's looking to feel good is going to have to really wait for it. I mean basically I can give them Chapter 2, Chapters 8 and 9, and Chapters 29 and 30. "Poignant" might be the word for the extent of the positive emotions in the rest.
But my book is definitely a romance by this definition--if you stripped out the romance, you'd be left with a number of episodic subplots and a single longer subplot that really doesn't qualify as a "spine," especially given it only really starts at the midpoint. And to my mind the nature of the third-act conflict precludes this from being called suspense or even romantic suspense. It's perfectly clear by then that both protagonists will survive--the war is over and the question really is what happens now, in the wreckage left behind; "will they be together at the end?" is THE question of the novel. (I mean for climax questions there's also "will Secondary Character X survive?" and "Why the hell does SC Y seem to want SC X dead?" But like I said, subplots. Resolving these wouldn't be enough.)
But it doesn't feel like a romance! Have I created an unsaleable hybrid?? Where is the "romantic drama" category?? (Outside of movies I mean.) If it's hiding somewhere, please tell me!
(I've wondered if I should try the litfic world. As possibly being the right refuge for someone who didn't write to genre, no matter how cogently she was told she should, but only to story. I haven't dipped my toe in yet. I may have some wrong ideas of what's out there, I don't know. I would describe my ending as "bittersweet and uplifting" and my perception of litfic is that "uplifting" could be disqualifying.)
Extremely grateful for any advice. So sorry for such a long post.
I'm not a romance specialist, but I would say some of the Colleen Hoover books I've read could be considered high-conflict. Spoiling the next bit for people who haven't read It Ends With Us and Reminders Of Him
Reminders Of Him deals with a woman coming back in town after spending 5 years in prison. The whole story is the conflict with the MMC between him behind torn between his loyalty to the victim's family and his feelings for the FMC. He could lose everything by sticking up or even being seen with her by the wrong people. There is also conflict between the MMC and FMC as he's keeping her from his daughter she's never met and he can't help but hate her for what she's done.
It Ends With Us deals with a woman falling head over heels for a man that seems perfect at first but ends up being abusive. Can she leave him, can she change him, but all gets more complicated when she bumps into her teenage love of her life. The two men clearly hate each other.
It Ends With Us deals with a woman falling head over heels for a man that seems perfect at first but ends up being abusive. Can she leave him, can she change him, but all gets more complicated when she bumps into her teenage love of her life. The two men clearly hate each other.
Or do you mean something else by high-conflict? As I said, I don't read tonnes of romance so far from being an expert.
Thank you!! Comparables are gold. I mean, I'll look those up and find out if they qualify as comparables, but I don't read a lot of romance either and seem to be crap at figuring out the lay of the land in any genre (such a moving target, too), so shoot, even a place to start is gold.
I guess by high-conflict I really mean the conflict between the 2 lovers, specifically, is intense--so I'm not certain if your second example fits the bill (though it certainly sounds interesting enough that I'll probably read it to find out!) but the first definitely sounds like it does.
Thanks again!
Wow, @Elle., it's even better than I thought--thank you!!! Reminders of Him and my book share themes of redemption and forgiveness, sympathy for the criminal, dilemmas of loyalty... and it sounds like they're similar in emotional tone too. I mean if an Amazon reviewer can absolutely love a "beautiful book that destroyed [them]" maybe there's hope for mine! There may be some big differences (my wartime setting for sure) but I could do one of those mashup comparables, "X meets Y" and I can already think of options for Y. Awesome!!
I love that I can let that hopeless romantic side of myself go crazy. Also, I'm about to get super cheesy I apologize in advance. I love "watching" the characters fall in love and learn to be vulnerable all while life continues to go on around them.
I don't like how people think look down on it as you said or consider it just to be fluff. Yes, some stories are just that or just a bunch of sex scenes brought together. But then there are some books where there is so much more substance within the story in itself but also with the characters.
Now you got me started...
I don't like feeling like I need to add a bunch sex scenes for it to get any attention. But that's just something I need to work through.
I applaud your ambition and efforts but I read for the warm fuzzies. I would be cautious about reading your next books.
Is there a subdivision of romance between high-conflict and low-conflict? If so, how can I identify and so avoid the high-conflict stories? It's not that I look down on them, but they don't deliver what I want.
Yeah I'm kind of leaning toward not selling mine as romance.
Can't answer your question though!
My only suggestion is to read the reviews and read the blurb. Otherwise you just have to take the risk.
(I mean, I'll let an agent advise/decide, if I can get one. But I think I'd better not query agents who only want romance, and I'd better make clear in the query that it's not only that. I do mean to use Reminders of Him by Colleen Hoover as a comparable, but my other one is A Thread of Grace by Mary Doria Russell, which is basically a literary, very locally focused WWII/Holocaust novel.)
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Is "love story" still a category? IIRC it's a romance that is more literary and doesn't have to have a happy ending and doesn't have to follow the very set-in-stone structure that romance presses require.
That's a very good question. I don't know the answer but I will try to find out! It does seem more suitable to what I've got.
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This library website explains what I'm thinking of -- though, again, dunno if it's actually a genre/marketing category as agents tag them. ETA: Maybe it's what they call women's fiction nowadays?
Thank you, this link looks excellent! Whether or not it's considered a category now, I can look through the article's list for titles that may have a similar makeup or vibe to my own and see what categories they were published under, etc.
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I missed this latest section of conversation, but I wanted to hop in and say I haven't read Hoover, but A Thread of Grace is one of my all time favorite books. I don't think you have to worry about agents *only* repping romance. Most romance agents also take WF, and many will take a look at books that might sit on the general fiction shelves, as long as it's clear they're women-centered and have romantic elements, even if they end on a sad note. Sure wish you all the best in shopping this.
Oh, so cool! Did you read (I think I read it somewhere in the notes at the back of the book) that in service of portraying the war as it really was in that area she actually flipped a coin to decide each character's survival--and abided by that? Man, that is hardcore. (I did not do that. And I don't think I measure up to that book either...)
Thanks so much for the pointers and good wishes! Much appreciated.
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I didn't read that, but one of the reasons I picked up the book in the first place was I had recently driven from Genoa to Torino by way of the Italian Riviera. The road from the sea into the mountains cut through a corner of France, and was the area where this book was set. It was an amazing drive before I read the book, and even more so once I envisioned the story setting as I read the book.
Ooh, sounds amazing! Wish I could've done that!I didn't read that, but one of the reasons I picked up the book in the first place was I had recently driven from Genoa to Torino by way of the Italian Riviera. The road from the sea into the mountains cut through a corner of France, and was the area where this book was set. It was an amazing drive before I read the book, and even more so once I envisioned the story setting as I read the book.
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It's never too late. Just be forewarned before you go, the road along the Riviera may LOOK like a highway on the map, but it's a 2-lane bumper-to-bumper road through one small resort town after another. I'm not knocking it. It was incredible to sightsee during a slow drive, but you do have to watch for all the wild Italian scooter- and motorcycle drivers (usually with someone hanging onto them in the rear seat) zipping between lanes, over sidewalks, perpendicular between cars, anything and everything to pick up a car-length here, a block there.
Good times, and I mean that sincerely.
