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Tirgearr Publishing

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gingerwoman

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Well, it seems your lynch mob has everything sewn up nicely. I don't feel this is a positive environment for anyone to participate in. I joined this thread as it was about our company and hoped to offer some insight and encouragement to authors. I am not prepared to have my or my company's integrity ripped to shreds by a bunch of people who don't seem to have an ounce of respect for those who chose to publish via more traditional methods. We're a very open and honest company. If any of you feel that we're not, I'm sorry. I'm not willing to waste my valuable time being put into this disgusting position.

If you wish to engage in some mature dialogue, I'm happy to speak with you. But I will not spend any more time being subject to this nonsense.

Seems to me that you would all do better with your time in promoting your work and getting your sales up rather than trying to beat down people who may be successful in their own endeavors. We don't have to agree, but it would be nice if we all got along.

Bíodh an lá go deas, agus is féidir leis an ghrian solais i gcónaí do ghoirt.
The admins and mods here are primarily concerned with protecting authors. Some of their comments may seem harsh at first, but their concern is seeing that authors don't get burned.
The admins are far from against so called "traditional" (trade) publishing. All of them have been published by respected publishers.
Also I think Emily gave you some good advice that if you want to appeal to authors outside Ireland to include an explanation of your choice of name and its pronunciation on your website.
No one is trying to beat down people, here just trying to get people to prove they can support authors adequately. The mods here take time away from their own promotion to help protect authors.
 

Old Hack

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Kemberlee, there's nothing forcing you to continue this conversation, although I think it would be useful for both Tirgearr and any authors who might be interested in submitting their work to you in the future.

However, you really do need to address the copyright infringements on the All Ireland Travel blog. Delete them right now: it won't stop those whose copyrights you infringed from taking action against you, but it will at least show that you were willing to comply with the law once you realised you'd broken it.
 

greendragon

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I just came across this thread. I've been working for Kemberlee for a couple years now. I've met her (stayed at her house in Ireland on a vacation in 2011 for a couple days!). She's published my two travel books and is considering my novels. While I can see how she would feel a bit picked upon by the wording in some of the threads, I can also see how some of the statements were vague and needed clarification.

I will say this: I have respect for her, and the way she's worked with me to get my first books published. She is an American who has been in Ireland these last 16-17 years, and has built up a small business from scratch. I've helped her on some book covers as well.

I have also done some small bit of work with Highland Press in the past (I met the owner at an art show, and she wanted me to help her do some book covers) and I had a bad taste in my mouth after the experience. I believe there is no love lost between Tirgearr and Highland Press, but that is just my impression.

Oh, and Kemberlee is very concerned about copyright issues. We had an issue with one of my passages from my Scotland book being close to an article she found online. It turned out it was my own article (submitted as an excerpt for an upcoming book) but it was published on someone else's blog, so Kemberlee didn't see that right away. But she is very conscientious about such things!
 
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Old Hack

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I just came across this thread. I've been working for Kemberlee for a couple years now.

Ah. Is Kemberlee the publisher who advised you to rewrite your memoir to exclude all mentions of Scientology, even though Scientology is central to your story? And now you've changed it into a novel, again, I think, on her advice? I'm not sure that was good advice, I'm afraid.

Kemberlee is very concerned about copyright issues.

So concerned that she used to have a blog which was made up entirely of copyright violations. She's wisely deleted it now: but while I was looking at All Ireland Travel, the site the blog belonged to, I found this:

author.gif

Are you an author who's setting a novel in Ireland? We can help!

Because we live in Ireland, we have been able to travel extensively around the country. We have amassed a collection of photographs, historical tidbits, cultural traditions and recommendations so that we can offer you the best service and most accurate information than any other service.


We can provide services in helping you to ensure historical accuracy, help to add local flavor and dialect, and even provide images for cover art.​


References can be provided on request. Rates are dependent on the type of service you are looking for. Contact us and we will let you know what your project will involve and the cost.​

If Kemberlee is running a publishing company while simultaneously offering "author services" for money, that's a huge conflict of interests.
 

greendragon

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No, it was always a novel based on true events. She did advise that she wasn't comfortable publishing it with it mentioning Scientology. She suggested trying a larger publisher, or making some changes. I chose the latter.

Perhaps I am naive, as I am new to this whole industry, but I wasn't to concerned. I asked the question here because I was interested in hearing other people's opinions. I was under the impression that these forums were to help people with questions. Did I assume incorrectly?

I can certainly see how someone would get the impression they are being interrogated or slammed. I felt rather surprised by the vitriol in your questions.
 

Old Hack

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No, it was always a novel based on true events. She did advise that she wasn't comfortable publishing it with it mentioning Scientology. She suggested trying a larger publisher, or making some changes. I chose the latter.

Thanks for clarifying, greendragon. It sounds to be as though it would make a wonderful memoir, and part of me is sad you've written it as a novel (can you tell I'm a non-fic editor?).

I'm not convinced that the changes you've made will be enough to protect you or your publisher from the wrath of the Scientology church, but I hope they are.

Perhaps I am naive, as I am new to this whole industry, but I wasn't to concerned. I asked the question here because I was interested in hearing other people's opinions. I was under the impression that these forums were to help people with questions. Did I assume incorrectly?

No, you were quite right. AW is here for writers. It helps writers at all stages of their journey. This particular room is here to help writers separate the good from the bad, and to help writers work out all the various shades of grey in between.

I can certainly see how someone would get the impression they are being interrogated or slammed. I felt rather surprised by the vitriol in your questions.

If publishers are good, either we'll not spot any problems with the way they operate, or there will be good explanations for how things are.

The not-so-good publishers can fail to meet our high standards for various reasons: they might be clueless, or inexperienced, or downright malicious. For the purposes of this forum, it doesn't matter what the reasons are: the end result is that the writers who publish with them get shafted. Their books are published badly, they're marketed badly, they sell very few copies, and that is sad. Sometimes the writers concerned lose their books forever. Yes, this happens.

I've worked in publishing for about thirty years now and I've seen what happens when publishers fail. It's never nice. It's often heartbreaking. And it is most likely to happen when publishing houses are run by people who don't have appropriate experience in publishing.

What we're doing in this part of AW is pointing out any potential problems we see in the way publishers do business, in order to help writers make the best choices possible for them and their work.

I agree: it can be difficult for publishers who come across these threads. But that doesn't mean that they get "slammed" here, or that there's any "vitriol" here.

For the sake of your work, and all the hard work and love you put into it: when we spot problems, take them seriously.
 

greendragon

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OldHack, that is a very useful and considered answer, thank you. It makes perfect sense - but I felt myself put in a defensive position, and that's one of my failings. I defend things I believe in pretty quickly :)

As I've said, I have very little experience in the writing world as of yet. I do have a lot of experience in other worlds - accounting, LARP, genealogy, etc. I like to think I've become a fairly good judge of people per se.

I've worked with Tirgearr for almost three years now, and they've been very helpful in holding my hand along the way, knowing that I was new to the process. I greatly appreciated that hand-holding, and was very much in need of it. My travel books are selling well (I had a fantastic month last month, actually!) and she's encouraged me with my novels at every turn.

I just wanted to make sure people saw the point of view of this publisher from someone who has worked with them, and felt GOOD about the experience.

As for my novel - well, I'm a lover of fiction, so I needed to write it in the format I like. :) The story had been one I have needed to tell for many years (16 to be exact, as that's how long ago I found my dad!) and it's a true love story with a happy ending. Something in short supply in the real world. As I said in the other thread, I understand the practical reasons behind wanting to try to avoid the litigation.

Thank you again for your help with this. Perhaps in the future, you might pick up my novel anyhow, knowing it's based on a true story :p
 

Old Hack

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I have very little experience in the writing world as of yet. I do have a lot of experience in other worlds - accounting, LARP, genealogy, etc. I like to think I've become a fairly good judge of people per se.

None of that experience is going to help you one bit when it comes to working out if one publisher is better than another, though; and Kemberlee could be the most honest, straightforward and well-meaning person: but if she doesn't know enough about publishing, she won't be able to publish you well.

My travel books are selling well (I had a fantastic month last month, actually!) and she's encouraged me with my novels at every turn.

Now that IS good news. I'm really glad to hear it! How many copies are you selling each month? How many sales have you made in total? It would be really useful if you could let us know: it'll give us an idea of how well Tirgear's books sell.

Also, could you fill us in about distribution? Does Tirgear have a distribution contract with any of the major book distributors, or do they only sell through the usual online venues?

As for my novel - well, I'm a lover of fiction, so I needed to write it in the format I like. :) The story had been one I have needed to tell for many years (16 to be exact, as that's how long ago I found my dad!) and it's a true love story with a happy ending. Something in short supply in the real world. As I said in the other thread, I understand the practical reasons behind wanting to try to avoid the litigation.

The changes you've made don't guarantee any protection against litigation. The only way you can guarantee you'll not get sued is to not write or publish the book. Presenting it as fiction, with a few of the names changed, does not change the story, nor does it change any of the pertinent facts. Your characters are still going to be identifiable as your parents to anyone who knows them: all it will take is for a friend or acquaintance to read your book and tell people at the Church of Scientology that this is obviously the story of greendragon's parents, and bingo! you'll start getting letters from solicitors. You've left a helpful trail behind you on this forum which proves that this is a true story about members of the Church of Scientology: for example, in this thread you wrote,

Thank you again for your help with this. Perhaps in the future, you might pick up my novel anyhow, knowing it's based on a true story :p

See what I mean?

I've worked in non-fiction publishing for a while now. I've edited a good few books and have ghosted several biographies and other non-fiction books, and I've taken advice from solicitors on the potential issues featured in many of those books. I am very concerned that the changes you've made are not enough to protect you from legal action in the future, and I strongly advise you to take proper legal advice in that regard.
http://absolutewrite.com//www.pinterest.com/pin/create/extension/
 

Filigree

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Greendragon, not to completely spook you, but Old Hack is right. From what I know of other people's run-ins with that very litigious church, framing your work as fiction offers little protection. If you wanted more security, you might have gone in with a large publisher with a good legal department, one that backs its authors and is willing to tell hard stories in the public interest (at least one Frontline documentary and several high-profile exposes, for example.)

You went with a small press, and your publisher is quite right to be nervous. I can't say whether that's right or wrong, only that it is a factor both of you should consider.
 

greendragon

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My travel books (These are all ebooks, btw, not hard copies): My Ireland travel book was my first one. It came out a year and a half ago. My Scotland book just came out in November. Last month, I sold about 150 copies. That was a sale month, though, and higher than normal. I think it total about 500 so far. I'm sure it would have been more with a bigger publisher, or a print publisher - and then again, they might not have accepted me.

They are available on Amazon (UK, US, CA), Kobo, Smashwords, Nook, Apple. Tirgearr gives promotion assistance (i.e., discounts for promotion costs). For instance, if we get a promotion package from someone, she will reimburse us for 10% of the cost. They send out a package of how-tos on promotion and marketing, with suggestions and options, the names of some venues, blog hops, etc., like ENT and Library Thing.

I know the only way to keep from being sued is not to write. My earlier thread alone could be subject to litigation. It's the way our broken legal system works.
 

Filigree

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OTOH, you might get some shielding and free press from having the book come out just as other books and documentaries are rocking the boat. It's hard to guess, in advance. We are talking about a group that sent a 'please desist' letter to Rotten Tomatoes just for a movie review.

Those sales numbers are not bad - may they keep climbing!
 

Old Hack

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My travel books (These are all ebooks, btw, not hard copies): My Ireland travel book was my first one. It came out a year and a half ago. My Scotland book just came out in November. Last month, I sold about 150 copies. That was a sale month, though, and higher than normal. I think it total about 500 so far.

Thanks for sharing: I hope your sales continue to climb.

I'm sure it would have been more with a bigger publisher, or a print publisher - and then again, they might not have accepted me.

It's so difficult to know, isn't it?

They are available on Amazon (UK, US, CA), Kobo, Smashwords, Nook, Apple. Tirgearr gives promotion assistance (i.e., discounts for promotion costs). For instance, if we get a promotion package from someone, she will reimburse us for 10% of the cost.

Are you saying that if you spend money on your book's promotion your publisher will give you 10% of that spend?

That seems a bit stingy to me. When my authors do promotional stuff the appropriate publicity departments usually cover all the costs. Assuming, of course, that the authors cleared it first, and weren't doing anything which clashed with our own marketing efforts.

I know the only way to keep from being sued is not to write. My earlier thread alone could be subject to litigation. It's the way our broken legal system works.

If you had a literary agent or a publisher with a legal department, though, you probably wouldn't have to cover the cost of your legal defense, and you'd get a lot of support too. I've been involved in a few legal cases over the years and have found my agents and publishers invaluable.
 

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Gonna bump this since Tirgearr is participating in #pit2pub today. Does anyone else have experience working with/being published by Tirgearr?
 

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What are your sales figures like? And are you being paid in a timely way?
 

zmethos

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What are your sales figures like? And are you being paid in a timely way?

I haven't received my first royalties yet, though they should be arriving any day now. The quarter ended in March, so I believe I should see my payment in the next week (if they're timely). I'll know then how my book is doing. Right now all I have to go on is what I see when I watch the Amazon sales rank rise and fall. I'm so used to managing my own stuff (well, my husband manages it; he works in marketing) via self-publishing that working with a publisher is new to me.
 

zmethos

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What are your sales figures like? And are you being paid in a timely way?

Got the statement today. Not wowed by the sales, but not surprised either. I knew going in that Tirgearr pretty much leaves the marketing up to the authors. They tweet the book and put it on their FB page when it's released, but that's about it. I've been struggling to get mine noticed in other venues, but it's a tough sell. (I knew that, too; it's a niche book, and its intended audience isn't of the kind to hit up book blogs.) I'm mostly bummed that I won't get a print run because Tirgearr requires the book to sell a certain amount each quarter before they'll do a print version. I had visions of book signings! Ah well. I will see how different the process is with my next book, which is signed with a different publisher. Though that book also has, I think, broader commercial appeal, so it's tough to compare.
 

zmethos

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So after two quarters, I can objectively say (1) Tirgearr pays promptly, and (2) my self-published work sells better. Now, I don't know if that's because my self-published work is simply more appealing to a broader audience? I've tried getting this book reviewed places, and have succeeded a bit, but that seemingly hasn't translated to sales. Did a blog tour (per Tirgearr's recommendation) that didn't help a lick. ::shrug:: This book appears dead in the water, but I can't wholly blame the publisher. Maybe if I were to write a sequel, it would do better? But I have other projects I'm committed to first.
 

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Thanks for sharing all this information, zmethos, and congratulations on your book! Sometimes you just can't predict how the market is going to go no matter what method you use for publishing.

Do you know how many digital books are required to sell, or maybe what rate they need to sell, to allow for a physical book run with Tirgearr? I didn't see this anywhere on their site unfortunately.
 

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