time travel—extremely daunting

[rileyariel]

I'm currently outlining my first science fiction/fantasy novel. I've done purely fantasy a few times, urban and second world; however scifi feels a lot different. Granted, the kind of scifi I'm attempting is the Doctor Who kind of scientific where it's essentially magic anyways, but it's still nerve-wracking dipping my toes in an unfamiliar genre.

The story I'm working on now is essentially Mamma Mia in space, with some necromancy and time travel thrown in. Think Gideon the Ninth meets Firefly meets Steven Universe. However, I've invented a complicated scenario in which, due to wibbly wobbly time wimey shenanigans, the MC ends up being split into five versions of themself, all from various timelines. I, logically, have figured out how this makes sense. What's making me nervous, is explaining it in a way that makes sense.

Has anyone on here tried their hand at a story with time travel in it? If so, do they have any advice? Or even if not, have you read works that have done it particularly well? I am just worried it will end up being a mess on the page.

 

[shortstorymachinist]

I've tried time travel or multiverse stuff a few times. It's always fun, but yeah, it can be difficult to make sure it comes across to the reader. From what you're describing in your novel though, it sounds pretty straightforward at the moment? I feel like anyone used to sci-fi tropes wouldn't have a problem with the MC going, "Aw cool, more of me. I've always wanted to talk to the version of me that was raised by circus clowns." What exactly is the part that seems like it'll get messy for the reader?

As for books, have you read Kameron Hurley's The Light Brigade? It does time travel shenanigans quite well.

 

[rileyariel]

I've tried time travel or multiverse stuff a few times. It's always fun, but yeah, it can be difficult to make sure it comes across to the reader. From what you're describing in your novel though, it sounds pretty straightforward at the moment? I feel like anyone used to sci-fi tropes wouldn't have a problem with the MC going, "Aw cool, more of me. I've always wanted to talk to the version of me that was raised by circus clowns." What exactly is the part that seems like it'll get messy for the reader?

As for books, have you read Kameron Hurley's The Light Brigade? It does time travel shenanigans quite well.

The way that it happens is the confusing part. The MC is trying to find the antagonist as a baby and try to stop all the Bad Stuff from happening by just changing the past. She gets the baby, but forgets something else, so she drops the baby off with her team and goes back to try again. But she accidentally goes back to the exact same time as before. So now there are two of her and the baby. Then they both freak out and travel away. So now there are two versions of our MC just floating around space. The plot twist here, is that the baby version of our antagonist is also a version of the MC, and the baby that didn’t get stolen grows up to be the antagonist, while the baby they did steal becomes our protagonist.

So then throughout the story we have our original MC, the one that travelled away when there were two of them MC-2, the baby who they stole MC-3, and the baby they left behind that grew up to become the antagonist. The confusing aspect of this are that we meet all these characters separately without realizing they are the same until the end.

And see, I feel like the explanation of that is so confusing, and I’m just worried it won’t come across. I guess I just have to try my best though.

Thank you for that recommendation I will definitely give it a read!

 

[Brightdreamer]

So then throughout the story we have our original MC, the one that travelled away when there were two of them MC-2, the baby who they stole MC-3, and the baby they left behind that grew up to become the antagonist. The confusing aspect of this are that we meet all these characters separately without realizing they are the same until the end.

Behind the spoiler tag is a book by N. K. Jemisin that pulls this off rather well. (Spoiler tagged because the reveal sorta counts as a spoiler)...

Spoiler

The Fifth Season follows three characters who turn out to be the same person a different stages of their life.

Basically, it works because they are introduced as different characters - which they essentially are, being at different life stages with different goals - and links are gradually hinted at and built toward until the reveal.

As the saying goes, it's all in the execution...

 

[rileyariel]

Behind the spoiler tag is a book by N. K. Jemisin that pulls this off rather well. (Spoiler tagged because the reveal sorta counts as a spoiler)...

Spoiler

The Fifth Season follows three characters who turn out to be the same person a different stages of their life.

Basically, it works because they are introduced as different characters - which they essentially are, being at different life stages with different goals - and links are gradually hinted at and built toward until the reveal.

As the saying goes, it's all in the execution...

Okay good to know! Thank you! I actually have to is series on my shelf, so I will give it a read

 

[CMBright]

So, basic multiverse caused by predestination paradox rather than a quantum event.

I'm wondering if it's important for the reader to know what is going on until the protagonist gets enough pieces to figure out the puzzle him/herself?

If not, just show the reader as the protagonist gathers each piece.

 

[ChaseJxyz]

I also use the term "timey-wimey shenanigans" when discussing my multiverse-spanning (and technically time travel) story. There is a point in the beginning when [person who's been doing this awhile] explains it to the MC.

Spoiler: What I did but behind a spoiler so it doesn't eat up a lot of space

She sighed. “Hand me a piece of paper.” I give her a sheet from my printer and she pulls out a pen and starts drawing boxes and lines.
“If we look at the case, we’ll see that the suspect obtained the knife on the 9th, meaning he could have it in his possession at the time of the murder. The bank record was obtained, which lead to his arrest and his indictment.
“But that wasn’t always the case. There was a time where the bank record said the 10th, which meant nothing happened on the 9th. The bank record was obtained on the same date, but what happened afterward was very different. Two days ago you altered the record from the 10th to the 9th, taking us from this timeline” her pen swept across the page “to the other. Here, it always was the 9th, so the past is different, which leads us to our much-different present.”
I stared at the diagram. It felt like some sci-fi movie where the expert had to oversimplify quantum physics for the idiot audience. But this was real life, this was impossible, reality didn’t change just because I wanted it to.

But I also have a pretty simple diagram included, too. But also this is kind of a video game so I can get away with that. When it's a new timeline, the name of the scene changes (I'd LOVE for there to be a flowchart of everything that auto-fills out as the game progresses but I also know that would be ridiculous to program so I'm writing this with the assumption there'd be no such thing).

You COULD have a scene where its explained to the main character and some folds a piece of paper and stabs it with a pen or whatever. But that would be best if it's simple and quick and also the level of explanation the character (and audience) needs. Like the wormhole pen stabbing paper thing doesn't go into the actual physics of it...but that doesn't matter. You don't need to know how airfoils work to get on a plane and fly across the country, but you'd need to know SOME things if you're on a mission where you got to fly a plane. So when the MC preps for her mission, she's probably going to go over the high-level stuff, like how changing the past creates a new timeline (or a new version of yourself? dunno if you want people to know that early) and the risks involved. You can do a quick short explanier there.

Also if you like Gideon the Ninth then play Zero Escape (999 specifically) because it's literally just that only no necromancers or sword lesbians. It does its timey-wimey shenanigans very well, too. It's a visual novel and the only "gameplay" is escape rooms, like the ones you can do IRL, so it's very accessible.

 

[shortstorymachinist]

The way that it happens is the confusing part. The MC is trying to find the antagonist as a baby and try to stop all the Bad Stuff from happening by just changing the past.

The ol' Baby Hitler Gambit, got it.

She gets the baby, but forgets something else, so she drops the baby off with her team and goes back to try again. But she accidentally goes back to the exact same time as before. So now there are two of her and the baby. Then they both freak out and travel away.

Still makes sense, but this looks like the first break point where readers might start to wonder what the rules are with paradoxes and whatnot.

So now there are two versions of our MC just floating around space. The plot twist here, is that the baby version of our antagonist is also a version of the MC, and the baby that didn’t get stolen grows up to be the antagonist, while the baby they did steal becomes our protagonist.

So then throughout the story we have our original MC, the one that travelled away when there were two of them MC-2, the baby who they stole MC-3, and the baby they left behind that grew up to become the antagonist. The confusing aspect of this are that we meet all these characters separately without realizing they are the same until the end.

And see, I feel like the explanation of that is so confusing, and I’m just worried it won’t come across. I guess I just have to try my best though.

Thank you for that recommendation I will definitely give it a read!

If it isn't revealed until the end, I think that shifts most of the difficult explaining to that one point where the reveal happens. The rest of the book up to that point will probably be easier to understand, since it seems like the only time travel shenanigan until that reveal is that MC and MC-2 see each other?

But as Brightdreamer said, it's all in the execution, so I agree that you should give it your best shot and try not to worry too much.

 

[rileyariel]

So, basic multiverse caused by predestination paradox rather than a quantum event.

I'm wondering if it's important for the reader to know what is going on until the protagonist gets enough pieces to figure out the puzzle him/herself?

If not, just show the reader as the protagonist gathers each piece.

I also use the term "timey-wimey shenanigans" when discussing my multiverse-spanning (and technically time travel) story. There is a point in the beginning when [person who's been doing this awhile] explains it to the MC.

Spoiler: What I did but behind a spoiler so it doesn't eat up a lot of space

She sighed. “Hand me a piece of paper.” I give her a sheet from my printer and she pulls out a pen and starts drawing boxes and lines.
“If we look at the case, we’ll see that the suspect obtained the knife on the 9th, meaning he could have it in his possession at the time of the murder. The bank record was obtained, which lead to his arrest and his indictment.
“But that wasn’t always the case. There was a time where the bank record said the 10th, which meant nothing happened on the 9th. The bank record was obtained on the same date, but what happened afterward was very different. Two days ago you altered the record from the 10th to the 9th, taking us from this timeline” her pen swept across the page “to the other. Here, it always was the 9th, so the past is different, which leads us to our much-different present.”
I stared at the diagram. It felt like some sci-fi movie where the expert had to oversimplify quantum physics for the idiot audience. But this was real life, this was impossible, reality didn’t change just because I wanted it to.

But I also have a pretty simple diagram included, too. But also this is kind of a video game so I can get away with that. When it's a new timeline, the name of the scene changes (I'd LOVE for there to be a flowchart of everything that auto-fills out as the game progresses but I also know that would be ridiculous to program so I'm writing this with the assumption there'd be no such thing).

You COULD have a scene where its explained to the main character and some folds a piece of paper and stabs it with a pen or whatever. But that would be best if it's simple and quick and also the level of explanation the character (and audience) needs. Like the wormhole pen stabbing paper thing doesn't go into the actual physics of it...but that doesn't matter. You don't need to know how airfoils work to get on a plane and fly across the country, but you'd need to know SOME things if you're on a mission where you got to fly a plane. So when the MC preps for her mission, she's probably going to go over the high-level stuff, like how changing the past creates a new timeline (or a new version of yourself? dunno if you want people to know that early) and the risks involved. You can do a quick short explanier there.

Also if you like Gideon the Ninth then play Zero Escape (999 specifically) because it's literally just that only no necromancers or sword lesbians. It does its timey-wimey shenanigans very well, too. It's a visual novel and the only "gameplay" is escape rooms, like the ones you can do IRL, so it's very accessible.

This is great advice, thank you! I think I can have a version of the MC return after years away and explain what happened, that would probably solve a lot of the confusion

I’ll definitely check that out!

 

[PPeterson]

This reminds me of the sci-fi short story, "All You Zombies", which was later turned into a movie called, "Predestination".

I recommend you read the story, as it takes some bold leaps with gender swapping as well. The movie does the same, but it's a little too obvious when you're seeing it on screen.

 

[rileyariel]

This reminds me of the sci-fi short story, "All You Zombies", which was later turned into a movie called, "Predestination".

I recommend you read the story, as it takes some bold leaps with gender swapping as well. The movie does the same, but it's a little too obvious when you're seeing it on screen.

Good to know, thanks! I will definitely check this out

 

[gtanders]

I think the key will be careful worldbuilding. When the big reveal hits (that the MC and antagonist go back to the same baby in an earlier branch of the multiverse), that needs to jive with specific information we've already gotten that makes this possible in the story world. You don't want the reader scratching their head at that point. You want it to be subtle enough that the reader doesn't guess, or if they do, they're not sure. But without worldbuilding prep, it might land like reinventing the world at that moment to fit the plot.

One other thing that might help--or might give it away. If you go back to that original baby, maybe there's a physical quirk or trait that both the MC and antagonist have. Like their eyes are different colors, or they each have six fingers (bad examples, but you know). Little concrete details like this can help the reader go, "oh, right!"

Last of all, a caveat. If the MC and antagonist are both from the same baby in the multiverse, they're genetically identical, right? Even allowing for different life experiences, they'll look like twins, I expect. You might want to work through that. If that isn't dealt with and baked into the story from the start, the reader may scratch their head at that point. "Wait, do they look identical? Why didn't I know that?"

There's a great book that plays with this (in the context of cloning, not the multiverse)--it might give you some fodder. The Snow Queen by Joan D. Vinge.

Cheers!

 

[rileyariel]

I think the key will be careful worldbuilding. When the big reveal hits (that the MC and antagonist go back to the same baby in an earlier branch of the multiverse), that needs to jive with specific information we've already gotten that makes this possible in the story world. You don't want the reader scratching their head at that point. You want it to be subtle enough that the reader doesn't guess, or if they do, they're not sure. But without worldbuilding prep, it might land like reinventing the world at that moment to fit the plot.

One other thing that might help--or might give it away. If you go back to that original baby, maybe there's a physical quirk or trait that both the MC and antagonist have. Like their eyes are different colors, or they each have six fingers (bad examples, but you know). Little concrete details like this can help the reader go, "oh, right!"

Last of all, a caveat. If the MC and antagonist are both from the same baby in the multiverse, they're genetically identical, right? Even allowing for different life experiences, they'll look like twins, I expect. You might want to work through that. If that isn't dealt with and baked into the story from the start, the reader may scratch their head at that point. "Wait, do they look identical? Why didn't I know that?"

There's a great book that plays with this (in the context of cloning, not the multiverse)--it might give you some fodder. The Snow Queen by Joan D. Vinge.

Cheers!

This is great advice thank you! Some of this I have plans for, but I will make sure to make it very clear.

Thanks!

 

[dickson]

I'm currently outlining my first science fiction/fantasy novel. I've done purely fantasy a few times, urban and second world; however scifi feels a lot different. Granted, the kind of scifi I'm attempting is the Doctor Who kind of scientific where it's essentially magic anyways, but it's still nerve-wracking dipping my toes in an unfamiliar genre.

The story I'm working on now is essentially Mamma Mia in space, with some necromancy and time travel thrown in. Think Gideon the Ninth meets Firefly meets Steven Universe. However, I've invented a complicated scenario in which, due to wibbly wobbly time wimey shenanigans, the MC ends up being split into five versions of themself, all from various timelines. I, logically, have figured out how this makes sense. What's making me nervous, is explaining it in a way that makes sense.

Has anyone on here tried their hand at a story with time travel in it? If so, do they have any advice? Or even if not, have you read works that have done it particularly well? I am just worried it will end up being a mess on the page.

I’ve never tried writing a time travel story, but some years back I amused myself by studying the physics of time machines. Yes, Virginia, there is an actual literature on the subject! Both classical and quantum phenomena have been explored. Purely theoretical exploration, you understand: Time machines all require exceedingly strange initial conditions for the universe—even stranger than the ones we’ve got—or a kind of unobtanium called ‘exotic matter’ which funding agencies are strangely reluctant to pay for, for reasons of potentially lethal sticker shock.

Your idea of having several versions of MC meet up might (really going out on a limb here) have a quantum wrinkle to it. When you transport a quantum state around a closed circuit it will pick up a phase during the circuit. This can be electromagnetic (cue sidebar on magnetic monopoles) or of a kind that leads to interference, constructive or not. It may be that the phase has no effect whatever (theoreticians like to speak of ‘holonomy’ when jabbering about the possibilities. It can get rather thick.)

Purely a baseless speculation, but I had an antic vision while reading of these matters in which the phase difference between two versions of a time traveller upon meeting was electromagnetic, leading to a mildly painful shock should they shake hands.

. . . Wait for it:

This, of course, is the shock of recognition.

 

[rileyariel]

I’ve never tried writing a time travel story, but some years back I amused myself by studying the physics of time machines. Yes, Virginia, there is an actual literature on the subject! Both classical and quantum phenomena have been explored. Purely theoretical exploration, you understand: Time machines all require exceedingly strange initial conditions for the universe—even stranger than the ones we’ve got—or a kind of unobtanium called ‘exotic matter’ which funding agencies are strangely reluctant to pay for, for reasons of potentially lethal sticker shock.

Your idea of having several versions of MC meet up might (really going out on a limb here) have a quantum wrinkle to it. When you transport a quantum state around a closed circuit it will pick up a phase during the circuit. This can be electromagnetic (cue sidebar on magnetic monopoles) or of a kind that leads to interference, constructive or not. It may be that the phase has no effect whatever (theoreticians like to speak of ‘holonomy’ when jabbering about the possibilities. It can get rather thick.)

Purely a baseless speculation, but I had an antic vision while reading of these matters in which the phase difference between two versions of a time traveller upon meeting was electromagnetic, leading to a mildly painful shock should they shake hands.

. . . Wait for it:

This, of course, is the shock of recognition.

Oooooh, I will look into this! My brother is a science guy and he helped me with the ideation of how this situation would work along different time travel theories. But I have to admit when science terms go thrown around I blanked a bit

Thank you!

 

[dickson]

Oooooh, I will look into this! My brother is a science guy and he helped me with the ideation of how this situation would work along different time travel theories. But I have to admit when science terms go thrown around I blanked a bit

Thank you!

Glad to be of help. Feel free to break the laws of physics, in aid of a good story!