The Old Neverending PublishAmerica Thread (Publish America)

Editing for authors: because every writer needs a good editor.

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Ok, Dave, please explain this, again.

I do not understand PA. they say: "Our track record is impeccable. You want to keep in mind that PublishAmerica is revolutionizing the publishing industry." How can they claim they are "revolutionizing the publishing industry" when the publishing industry refuses to acknowledge them?! For Pete's sake, bookstore owners lock the doors when PA authors walk across the parking lot! i've read excerpts from PA books and well, some of them remind me of a cheap, internet story than a decent (can't say best) selling novel. Yet PA keeps feeding them, saying "Don't worry about grammer, pace, or characters! Those are not important. Give us your book as is, and you'll be the next Charles Dickins." Then the poor writers follow the piper to the river, never listening to those warning them of danger. I really believe that some of the PA writers could actually be great writers, if only they'd listened. Oh, Well, what can ya do? :\

James D Macdonald

Re: "PA authors" don't leave...

You know, some of us would actually just like to have a conversation about writing.

I'm trying, up in the Novel board.

James, everyone, y'all are invited.



well, as a long term lurker there, other people ask all the ?s I would ask, so I will just keep lurking

but it is very useful.

thank you


Explain this?

Well, it is impeccable. They just didn't say it was impeccably good.

They are revolutionizing the publishing industry by trying to take it back to a time when there were no returns and bookstores lost money to unscrupulous publishers who falsely inflated the demand for their product.

What can we do? Don't let them bury the facts.

Eventually, new writers will recognize the problem before it's too late when they see so many writers published by one publisher without so much as a single best-seller among them.

Eventually, new writers will notice among all the postings in that publisher's forum that the overwhelming majority of orders from bookstores came from single stores and not from the chain itself. Those new writers will also notice that those orders didn't come because the store manager went through a catalogue and picked out the book, but because someone approached him wanting him to order it. As an aside, I'm waiting to see how long it takes before some of those writers who succeeded in getting their books ordered by a store start blaming the lack of sales on a lack of promotion by that store. Another event I expect to see is the first mention anywhere of one of their writers complaining about having to pay a store for the returns they promised they'd handle personally. We know it's going to happen to one of those 6000 "happy" writers which is another of their publisher's deceptions.

Are they happy? Well, yes and no. We know they're happy about being published. We also know that many of them are unhappy about the price put on their books. We know many of them are unhappy about the quality of editing in their books. We know many of them are unhappy about the marketing of their books.

FM St George

Re: veiled threat or what?

oh, my...

guess PA isn't ready to deal with a murder or assault charge yet...



Question is

Does removing the posting make them accessories or co-conspirators should anything happen? That posting could have provided a warning to potential victims. What they've done is eliminate evidence that could have protected them unless they've also taken the further steps of notifying each of those potential victims and the authorities.

Sooner or later, they're going to wise up that you can't just remove every posting you disagree with or that makes you look foolish.

James D Macdonald

Re: veiled threat or what?

Wow ... you got to be right on top of 'em! What did I miss?

Anyone have a copy?


Re: veiled threat or what?

i want to know too, but it was off in less than an hour.

Ed Williams 3

Please post it if someone has it...

...the suspense is just too much, plus, there is something both bizarrely fascinating and incredibly sad about the whole Publish America situation. I wish all of their authors well except the ones who are purposefully trying to mislead the others.

FM St George

Re: Please post it if someone has it...

I don't recall it exactly, but it entitled the opposition to PA as "Operation Doomsday" and noted that at the upcoming convention they'd be able to "face the spammers face-to-face" - something also about being unable to deal with reality and hiding behind aliases, yatta yatta yatta... daring them to write this yahoo and explaining themselves; the usual dry threats.

it really came across as a sort of "I know who's coming to the convention and writing on the other boards and I'm gonna out ya and we're gonna tar and feather ya in public!" type of post... I'm not surprised PA pulled it; it seemed to verge on announcing a public lynching...

wonder who the unlucky one is who's not only going to the convention and posting on other boards (gasp!) but actually has been "found out" by these fanatics???


btw, anyone notice that HB Marcus has been absent for a few days? Seems that he dried up after his attempt to chastise the PA authors who posted elsewhere... wonder if his lawyer finally warned him of the potential of such comments...


Re: Please post it if someone has it...

FM, check your Temporary directory cache on your computer. You could still have a copy of that topic there. If so, just drag it to a regular directory and it should become a text file. Then you can cut and paste from it.


Re: Please post it if someone has it...

"btw, anyone notice that HB Marcus has been absent for a few days? Seems that he dried up after his attempt to chastise the PA authors who posted elsewhere... wonder if his lawyer finally warned him of the potential of such comments..."

Considering his comments were getting a great many of the regularly PA faithful to pipe up and tell him (and all the other board readers) that Mindsight wasn't really as bad as he was making it out to be, and that it actually held some good information (and here, I got banished for having a link to my website, where I held a link to Mindsight :p), it may be that he had his chain yanked by his masters before he could continue the tirade, and drive more people to check it out...but one can only assume...

(One should also wonder whether PA has prevented further posting to that thread, as there hasn't been a comment for the last 3-4 would think you'd get at least one newbie coming in, asking why they aren't allowed to go visit other writing boards... :p No proof that's what happened of course, but it's been their MO in the past...)

Dodgem James

Re: "PA authors" don't leave...

"I don't think anyone here is AGAINST the authors of PA."

That's not how I see it. Unless, of course, that author is disgruntled.

"I love the fact that anyone who says anything bad about PA is a "naysayer"."

I love the fact that Mr. Kuzminski doesn't match up to the criteria put forth to be a "real" author and yet he still claims he is. AND people believe it!

"Well, gee, Dodgem James, you could counter those insults by releasing your sales numbers."

As soon as you release the name of the detective.

"Besides, I thought you came to this board to hang out with real writers. Now you don't want to talk about writing?"

I did come here to hang out with real writers. But you keep showing up!

And I wrote that I want to talk about writing, Dave. Sheesh! Once again you show how guilty you are of all the things you accuse me of.


"We won't throw him off. but of course, his position would be weakened by a place where he could actually be forced to preach to anyone but the believers. he probably won't be back to talk with us anytime soon."

He probably doesn't want to be publicly called a bigot. Sheesh, at least when Dave got called a pornographer PA authors stood up to defend him (as much as they don't like him). I think that says a lot about the people at PA compared to those here.


Ed Williams 3

James, what is your point?

It seems to me you make periodic forays on this board to basically put down most of those here. You also make assertions that run from very thought provoking to ridiculous. What's the point? Does Meiners pay you per each post, or what? And why the continued assault on Dave? Is it that Dave and P&E are making a serious dent in your master's pocketbook?

I do know one thing, your credibility is zilch - witness this line from one of your more recent posts:

"I've learned my lesson and I don't venture where I am not welcome.


You are obviously not a man of your word.

FM St George

Re: James, what is your point?

yep. like the other PA authors stood up to defend me or the other banned authors when we were slimed on the boards without any ability to defend or explain ourselves. Hell, PA still refused to remove the post slamming me and they hopped on the bandwagon. And they're now actively seeking out PA authors in a witch hunt which HB led until a few brave souls spoke out against him.

sorry, DJ - you're going to have to go a long way to somehow portray the PA authors there as somehow morally superior to the rest of us. They may be writing Christian books, but their attitude on the boards is anything but.


Dodgem James, what criteria is that?

Right now, I'd like to see that criteria. Either list it or give a reference link to it.

Whether you know it or not, some of my books come in two flavors: electronic and print. I didn't have to pay anyone to get my books published. Starting with my first book, I submitted until I found a legitimate royalty-paying publisher who liked what I offered. Most of my books have sold better than the majority of those put out by your current publisher. In fact, I actually have to worry about how much they've sold because it's tax time and taxes in the U.S. aren't automatically deducted from royalties. At least, not by my publishers. Consequently, I'll have to pay some additional taxes since I'm showing significant profits over my writing expenses.

By the way, my non-fiction successes date back to 1986 and I was paid quite well for those, too.

So, what's your criteria?

FM St George

ah... look, reality!

wow... wonder if PA's gonna lift my ban 'cause what I've been saying for months is true...


wonder how long this is gonna exist...

let me c/p for ya in case it gets nuked:


Subject: Turn negative into positive

Getting our books onto brick-and-mortar bookstore shelves is a problem we are all aware of here on the MB. It is an issue each author is going to have to deal with one way or another, sooner or later.

While at the Kiwanis on Friday this issue was brought to my attention several times by people who came up to me and said they had tried to buy my book but could not find it. One man said he was told at Walden's that they were "out" of the book. A woman said the same about a Barnes and Nobles store.

Now you and I know that my book may - or may not - have been stocked by those stores. I made no mention of that when responding to these people. Why bring up a negative????

I simply told them that I was so sorry to hear that but my book was very popular and that the book stores were having a problem keeping it in stock.

I told them the absolute truth when I told them that the book store in Tifton kept running out and would have to wait some two weeks to get an order in -- and that I had been supplying the local store with books while they waited on their order to come in.

I think I put a positive spin on a negative. Politicians do it all the time. Why not me?

How are you handling this situation?


cora morace


RE: Turn negative into positive


Kudos again with your success with the Kiwanis.
You're lucky that the bookstore said that they were out of the book, which by the way, is the smarter thing for them to say. Recently an acquaintance of mine went to three bookstores in our locale and asked for COCODRIE. The first looked it up and said "Oh, we don't stock those kinds of books, and proceeded to offer her an alternative - a Mississippi cookbook!!?? The second said it wasn't available to them, and the third suggested that she try the first store.
I had approached all three of these stores about stocking my books - I had offered to help them with copies until theirs could be of the clerks said they had a couple other requests for it that week, too, but their store policy didn't allow them to stock it. NOT A ONE OFFERED TO SPECIAL ORDER IT! These were "chain" type bookstores, the two independents in our area both ordered copies and I have signings with both scheduled. But these others have gone out of their way, in my estimation, to make my book sound like it lacks worth and I am just proud and stubborn enough to hope that they will someday regret it.
Had to get that off my chest.



RE: Turn negative into positive

Face it, without a return policy, a lot of bookstores look the other way. Compound that with their snob factor, and we must work ten times harder to get our books into the hands of readers.


eighter marx


RE: Turn negative into positive

The stores B&M and Waldenbooks want to carry my book but it is against their policy.

B&M will not let a PA book be shipped to their warehouse but they can have it shipped to a house.

Waldenbooks will not order a POD. If someone has proof of this being wrong, please contact Waldenbooks in Sawmill Square in Laurel, MS.

I have had requests from B&M to come for a book signings in other towns.

I tell them....."YOu get the books first and I'll be glad to come." Every time I planned something it got cancalled because they couldn't get books.

It is against their policy to buy from the author or let the author bring their own books.

I tell people who try to buy it in the books stores the truth. I tried. I also tell them that if they know the author personally why fool with a book store.

I have even written to the boards of the chains, begging and offering to buy books back------- with no luck.

I hired someone yesterday to contact all the independent stores in Alabama and Mississippi.

If that goes well, I will add a state or two at a time. I plan to visit all of the independent stores after the contact, plus all the libraries along the way. I could have included the chains, but knew it would be a waste of money.

I chose Alabama first so I can show them Joyce's book, True Blue Forever along with mine.

In my ads, I say order an autograhed copy from the author or online. I add a copy of the PA order form that they sent out to your friends for the ones who don't have a computer. I have removed "ask you local book store" from my cards and my ads.

BTW, my goal is to stay close to Shortie on the PA best seller's list. I'm now 49 and I'm delighted to see she moved up.

My motto is "IF you kiss enough frogs, one day you'll find a prince." But, so far nothing but warts from the chains so I gave up on them.

Molly Marx Brent
There Ain't Enough Front Porches

eighter marx


RE: Turn negative into positive

That should be BAM...... I screw up a lot. Please excuse my mistakes.




RE: Turn negative into positive

I think you are right. I was very lucky the bookstore manager told the customer they were out of stock. He/she could just have easily said something else.

I agree with you. I am not interested in butting my head into a brick wall. I will try to make inroads where I can and let the rest ride. BTW, I will have to check BAM. Amazon is the only one I ever check; just habit.

You would be a good one to address this issue at the PA convention methinks. How 'bout it?

It just KILLS me that there are people who are trying so hard to get my book but can't. A while back a man told me he drove all the way to Albany (45 miles) because he was sure he could get it at the bookstore in the mall there. No luck. It is just a bummer. A real bummer.

Doesn't it make you wonder what our sales could look like if there was a return policy??




RE: Turn negative into positive

You would be a good one to address this issue at the PA convention methinks. How 'bout it?"

Shortie, you're talking Lynn Barry, right?

Lynn <the other Lynn who is a chicken>


oh, to be a fly on the wall if this ever comes up at the convention this weekend... I somehow doubt it; or the PA staff will somehow deny it's happening or put some spin on it that it's a Good Thing that no decent bookstore will carry your books, yatta yatta yatta...



Re: ah... look, reality!

Ya know, it really is sad. these folks don't realize that Denial isn't a river in Egypt. they just can't get it that if the car is broke, get a new one. dump PA, find a real publisher and build a career. sad, very sad. :eek:



Okay, many Publish America folk spent around 300 dollars plus transportation costs plus the cost of two nights or three in a hotel to go to a convention to hear about Publish America and hear about writing and promotion from other Publish America people.

That's fine if they view it as just a nice thing to do recreationally.

I do hope they do not see it as something that will advance a career.

Ed Williams 3

Well, it's easy money...

...for PA, they probably are getting a cut of the motel take, plus the $300 or so is pure profit. Hey, they have already shown mega willingness to profiteer off their authors, so this conference should surprise no one. Wonder if anyone there had the guts to ask about their no returns policy, the pricing of their books, or the banning of certain authors who ask legitimate questions off their bulletin boards?

(Oh - interestingly enough, PA now has an author named Ed Williams. I'm sure it is just coincidence, as it is a very common name, but with these guys I will always wonder just a tad in the back of my mind....) :rollin


Re: "PA authors" don't leave...

Dodgy James, Dave Kuzminski has been a good guy and a benefactor to the writing community for years and years.

Who the hell are you?

Please explain particulars soonest.
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