The Next Circle of Hell, Vol. 2

GeillisDuncan

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Hi everyone,

I’m on submission with Book 1 at the moment. I concur with other sentiments expressed in this thread about lack of responsiveness from publishers. I have been on submission for 3 months (almost to the day). The initial round was 12 publishers. I received two quick rejections (one I was expecting as the editor had just published something v similar to mine) and then nothing for a while. Then 3 more rejections after an agent nudge. The feedback was generally nice, although mostly saying things like “I didn’t connect with the voice” or “ it never quite ignited for me” which I can’t really do anything with.

Will speak to Agent in a few weeks to determine next steps. In the meantime, I have am pretending that Book 1 no longer exists and getting stuck into Book 2. I pushed back against “writing the next thing” while waiting as I didnt think I was in the right head space, but it really is the only way to survive this period without losing your marbles.
Welcome! I’m also right at three months. I’ve had two rejections. My agent nudged our list yesterday, so I’m hoping that shakes loose some more replies.

Yes to write the next thing! I was fortunate in that I started my next thing as a coping mechanism while querying, so I already had something started. It’s actually done and in my agent’s hands, and she’s giving me really positive feedback, which makes the book on sub feel less all-consuming—if it doesn’t sell, I have something else in the pipeline that’s probably better.

Good luck out there! What’s your genre?
 

IrishLitWriter

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Hi, what genre do you write? Sorry for the unhelpful editor feedback. I sometimes felt like I was trying to read tea leaves while figuring out from editor responses whether I should revise.

I wasn't able to start a new book for the first months I was on sub either, but eventually I was able to and it really is true that it helps. It also makes it weirder to return to the other book for edits, I've found. I got my final sensitivity read a couple of weeks ago and was like "why didn't they pick up on that thing I was worried about? did they miss it or does it mean it's not a problem?" So I went back and did a search to find thing-I-was-worried-was-problematic in order to ask the reader, since it was part of the reason I'd wanted another sensitivity read-- and it wasn't there! I apparently had removed it on my own in one of the revisions. Having space from it made me not even remember what I'd left in and taken out. I do think, in general, having a new book really does blunt things to some extent with the publishing process.
Book 1 is literary fiction, an Irish family drama set during a period of political upheaval. It’s funny, I was so proud of it and perhaps one of the reasons I hesitated to start book 2 was that I thought I couldn’t possibly write anything better. I was looking at book 1 the other day and couldn’t help but wince at some of the phrasing and other aspects. Is strange what a slight change in perspective can do. Somewhat similar to your experience it seems!
 
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IrishLitWriter

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Welcome! I’m also right at three months. I’ve had two rejections. My agent nudged our list yesterday, so I’m hoping that shakes loose some more replies.

Yes to write the next thing! I was fortunate in that I started my next thing as a coping mechanism while querying, so I already had something started. It’s actually done and in my agent’s hands, and she’s giving me really positive feedback, which makes the book on sub feel less all-consuming—if it doesn’t sell, I have something else in the pipeline that’s probably better.

Good luck out there! What’s your genre?
Sounds like we are in the same boat! I think mentally I have given up on book 1, more as a coping mechanism that anything else. I still hope it sells but I am no longer imagining myself seeing it in a book shop (or winning the nobel prize!) great work on book 2! Like you (again) I think my book 2 is potentially better and will be discussing with the agent whether it might be better to park book 1 and focus on book 2 first. It’s good to have the option, so definitely a good idea to keep writing always. I’m about 25k words in, aiming for 65k or so. I like to read shorter books, so that’s what I always plan for.

I mention the genre in my previous post. What’s yours?
 

literaryguitar

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Book 1 is literary fiction, an Irish family drama set during a period of political upheaval. It’s funny, I was so proud of it and perhaps one of the reasons I hesitated to start book 2 was that I thought I couldn’t possibly write anything better. I was looking at book 1 the other day and couldn’t help but wince at some of the phrasing and other aspects. Is strange what a slight change in perspective can do. Somewhat similar to your experience it seems!
I think that would happen with anything we write.

My furst book was lit fic also. Is your second also lit fic or something else?
 

IrishLitWriter

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Book 2 is more of a political thriller. Completely different setting land time period - little bit mad men meets the west wing. Perhaps a bit more commercial. So quite different! To be fair, when I started writing I had both ideas and knew I would ultimately write both of them.
 

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Book 2 is more of a political thriller. Completely different setting land time period - little bit mad men meets the west wing. Perhaps a bit more commercial. So quite different! To be fair, when I started writing I had both ideas and knew I would ultimately write both of them.
When I started writing, I had 3 ideas and I'm on number 2 now and will go on to number 3. None are the same genre. Totally not recommended for building an audience, but what can we do? These are the stories we have/ need to tell. It's great your agent will rep both lit fic and thriller. My agent expressed zero interest in my WIP as it's not in her wheelhouse. When I finish it, I will need to figure out what to do with it, given that.
 
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IrishLitWriter

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Well, we will see about that! When we met, I told him about the broad outline of book 2 and he seemed enthusiastic about it. As you say, you can’t help the ideas that come to you. Each to their own, but I’m not really interested in churning out the same type of book 10 times.

Would you look for a different agent in that case? I guess depends on how book 1 goes. I imagine agents/publishers are able to overlook almost any kind of thought crime it there’s money behind it
 

literaryguitar

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Well, we will see about that! When we met, I told him about the broad outline of book 2 and he seemed enthusiastic about it. As you say, you can’t help the ideas that come to you. Each to their own, but I’m not really interested in churning out the same type of book 10 times.

Would you look for a different agent in that case? I guess depends on how book 1 goes. I imagine agents/publishers are able to overlook almost any kind of thought crime it there’s money behind it
I already know how book 1 went, so that's not the issue. My agent could not sell book 1 and I subbed it to small presses and it's under contract with one now that I'm very happy with so far. It paid me an advance, does marketing, has generated some bestsellers, but my agent would not rep me with this contract because it's a small press and she said the advance was too small for her agency to be involved. Which is fine. But it means I have an agent but no book out with her and she's not interested in my WIP, so I'm not really sure where that leaves me. She is, however, very interested in idea #3, which I likely won't even start writing until next year and since it's a historical, it will take me a while to write (i.e. likely more than a year). So that's a while down the road.

So what to do with WIP? I'm a little more than halfway through it at this point, and I'm trying not to think about it yet. But I'm guessing this will be my strategy:

1. Pitch it to my agent even though she said she doesn't want to read it. She told me it's not marketable, but it seems clear to me and everyone who's read any part of it (all writers) that it's just that it's not what she does. I and everyone who's read both my WIP and my debut says the WIP is way more marketable. People can't believe my agent isn't into it and keep sending me comps to show her to prove how marketable it is. So my first step will probably be to email her something that is more of a pitch (though informal, since she's already my agent) about why it's marketable, comps, comments from other writers and betas, etc. and attach it and beg her to at least peruse it.

2. If she still balks, I will ask her if she can refer me to another agent at her agency who handles this genre. She was already at a medium size agency and now it was bought by one of the largest in the country, so there are a lot of agents there.

3. If she says no, I will ask how she feels about me seeking another agent just for this book and coming back to her with book #3. If she says ok, I will query. if she says not ok, I will decide if I want to give her up or approach small presses on my own with this book.

4. Approach small presses if all of the above goes nowhere.

I may change the order of this depending on how publication of my current book goes and whether the publisher is interested in my WIP. If I'm still happy with the way things are going with my debut when I'm ready to pitch this, I may just ask the publisher if he wants it. I think he'd like it and he publishes many genres. But he also only takes on books that he thinks he can get film deals for, as he's in LA and has developed a lot of film industry ties and it's a large part of how he keeps his press afloat and able to do things like pay advances and do marketing. And while I think he'd like my WIP, I think it would be difficult to make a film of.

So that's what I'm thinking I'll do, but right now I'm just focused on writing it, when I focus on it at all, which I have not done in the last week.
 

GeillisDuncan

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Sounds like we are in the same boat! I think mentally I have given up on book 1, more as a coping mechanism that anything else. I still hope it sells but I am no longer imagining myself seeing it in a book shop (or winning the nobel prize!) great work on book 2! Like you (again) I think my book 2 is potentially better and will be discussing with the agent whether it might be better to park book 1 and focus on book 2 first. It’s good to have the option, so definitely a good idea to keep writing always. I’m about 25k words in, aiming for 65k or so. I like to read shorter books, so that’s what I always plan for.

I mention the genre in my previous post. What’s yours?
My book on sub is contemporary fantasy blended with mythology. The book I just sent to my agent is upmarket suspense. I too can’t seem to stay in one lane, although the book I’m currently gestating in my brain will also fall into the upmarket suspense category, so perhaps I’m finding my genre. The fantasy book is a not-very-typical fantasy, so I won’t be surprised if we don’t sell it. It’s a bit of a genre bender and there just aren’t many books like it. It’s also complex and weird and can’t be explained in one line, which I hear is another strike against it. Oh well.

I wish I could write short books. I outlined Book 2 to be 80k. By the time draft one was finished it was 94k. After beta reads and edits it’s about 99k. Doh. My agent will probably find places to trim, though.

Your new book sounds awesome. Mad Men meets the West Wing? Sign me up!
 

IrishLitWriter

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I am a Mad Men fanatic. I’ve watched the entire series about 10 times. So much that I came up with a name for one of my characters that I thought was original, then realised it was almost exactly like the names of one of the executive producers (or similar) on Mad Men. I might need an intervention.

i wish you all the best with the book that’s on sub. I personally think “different” is good. Let’s keep fighting the good fight :)
 
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Mevrouw Bee

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1. Pitch it to my agent even though she said she doesn't want to read it. She told me it's not marketable, but it seems clear to me and everyone who's read any part of it (all writers) that it's just that it's not what she does. I and everyone who's read both my WIP and my debut says the WIP is way more marketable. People can't believe my agent isn't into it and keep sending me comps to show her to prove how marketable it is. So my first step will probably be to email her something that is more of a pitch (though informal, since she's already my agent) about why it's marketable, comps, comments from other writers and betas, etc. and attach it and beg her to at least peruse it.
I suspect she can't market it because she doesn't have the contacts. Is the genre different than your book and idea #3?
 

IrishLitWriter

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Another pass for me. Well written, a little slow moving, very saturated market. Not terrible, but always disappointing. I think that’s round one of submissions exhausted now, which is somewhat of a relief at least. Speaking with agent next week to discuss next steps. I guess either going to a second round, with focus on smaller presses or parking book 1 and focussing on WIP.
 

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I am a bit anxious about it all. I keep have these silly thoughts that agent will drop me because he couldn’t sell it and I’ll be back to square one. Appreciate that’s irrational.

I think WIP is better - more commercial at least - so I will put it on the table. Book 1 has a special place in my heart though. It’s set in a hypothetical near future so, given the topic, it probably needs to be published in next couple of years to make any sense.

This life is full of ups and downs. I’m on a down at the moment, but hoping today will be an up.
 

aceafer

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I have an agent again! Happy to be rejoining this thread! I left my last agent in May 2022, I think, so it's taken me just over a year to get back here. I'm very pleased. I actually had an offer from a different agent who kind of implied that if I couldn't do my edits well the first time she wouldn't have time to work with me on them so we'd part ways, so I'm very relieved that I got an unconditional offer from someone else - and from my dream agent who I've wanted to work with for years!
 

Janine R

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I have an agent again! Happy to be rejoining this thread! I left my last agent in May 2022, I think, so it's taken me just over a year to get back here. I'm very pleased. I actually had an offer from a different agent who kind of implied that if I couldn't do my edits well the first time she wouldn't have time to work with me on them so we'd part ways, so I'm very relieved that I got an unconditional offer from someone else - and from my dream agent who I've wanted to work with for years!
Congratulations!
 
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GeillisDuncan

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I have an agent again! Happy to be rejoining this thread! I left my last agent in May 2022, I think, so it's taken me just over a year to get back here. I'm very pleased. I actually had an offer from a different agent who kind of implied that if I couldn't do my edits well the first time she wouldn't have time to work with me on them so we'd part ways, so I'm very relieved that I got an unconditional offer from someone else - and from my dream agent who I've wanted to work with for years!
Yay!!! That’s so exciting!
 
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literaryguitar

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I suspect she can't market it because she doesn't have the contacts. Is the genre different than your book and idea #3?
Yes. Book 1, which she signed me for, is lit fic. Book 2 is humorous CNF. Book 3 is literary historical. So yeah, I'm sure she doesn't ahve contacts for Book 2, but she's with a huge agency and when she signed me she said she'd rep all my writing, even my poetry, even though she doesn't do poetry. But I guess the unspoken part of that was "after I sell the book I just signed you for." When she didn't sell that, she didn't/doesn't want something out of her wheelhouse. I think she needs to sell something in her wheelhouse first.
 

literaryguitar

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I have an agent again! Happy to be rejoining this thread! I left my last agent in May 2022, I think, so it's taken me just over a year to get back here. I'm very pleased. I actually had an offer from a different agent who kind of implied that if I couldn't do my edits well the first time she wouldn't have time to work with me on them so we'd part ways, so I'm very relieved that I got an unconditional offer from someone else - and from my dream agent who I've wanted to work with for years!
Congrats on signing with your dream agent!!
 

GeillisDuncan

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Hey all! So, as my book has languished is sub purgatory, I’ve written and revised a new one. I am excited about it; I think it has more potential for a sale than my book on sub. Here is my question. My agent is new and hasn’t really sold much yet. She’s a good agent and I like her a lot, BUT the agency she’s with is pretty small and I wonder about whether her lack of connections will hurt me going forward, and I really want to give my new book its best shot.

Bottom line: Can you get a good deal with a newer agent/smaller agency? Is my book not getting read quickly because of my agent’s status, or will editors read fast as long as they’re excited about the book regardless of the agent? It seems like timing matters a lot in terms of securing a good deal. I think a guest on @Harlequin’s show mentioned the importance of a big agent, and now I’m nervous.
 

literaryguitar

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Hey all! So, as my book has languished is sub purgatory, I’ve written and revised a new one. I am excited about it; I think it has more potential for a sale than my book on sub. Here is my question. My agent is new and hasn’t really sold much yet. She’s a good agent and I like her a lot, BUT the agency she’s with is pretty small and I wonder about whether her lack of connections will hurt me going forward, and I really want to give my new book its best shot.

Bottom line: Can you get a good deal with a newer agent/smaller agency? Is my book not getting read quickly because of my agent’s status, or will editors read fast as long as they’re excited about the book regardless of the agent? It seems like timing matters a lot in terms of securing a good deal. I think a guest on @Harlequin’s show mentioned the importance of a big agent, and now I’m nervous.
How new is new and how small is small? I've wondered about this too. My agent did not sell my book (I sold it to a smaller press on my own) and she'd been an agent for 5 years at that point. She was with a mid-sized but respected agency that has now been bought by a huge agency, but at the time it was mid-size. She handles nonfiction and literary fiction, but most of her sales were nonfiction. So I did wonder this myself. On the other hand, an award-winning book she'd sold (which had already been published to acclaim in the UK and she was selling the US rights) was profiled in a magazine and the editor said she was excited to read it because my agent had written such a good email/letter about it and she already trusted my agent's taste from having read other MS's she'd sent. So I thought that was a good sign about my agent, but I still have wondered what you're wondering. On the other hand, my agent did a lot of good developmental editing and is a responsive, nice person, so I mostly assumed it was my book, and not her. But it's hard not to at least wonder.

ETA: The problem with trying to get a new agent for your new book, of course, is that I don't think you can try without telling your current agent or parting ways first, so it's a risk because what if you don't find a bigger agent to take the second book? Others here, especially people who have had more than one agent, can advise you better than I can. And I will be reading their answers with interest.
 
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GeillisDuncan

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How new is new and how small is small? I've wondered about this too. My agent did not sell my book (I sold it to a smaller press on my own) and she'd been an agent for 5 years at that point. She was with a mid-sized but respected agency that has now been bought by a huge agency, but at the time it was mid-size. She handles nonfiction and literary fiction, but most of her sales were nonfiction. So I did wonder this myself. On the other hand, an award-winning book she'd sold (which had already been published to acclaim in the UK and she was selling the US rights) was profiled in a magazine and the editor said she was excited to read it because my agent had written such a good email/letter about it and she already trusted my agent's taste from having read other MS's she'd sent. So I thought that was a good sign about my agent, but I still have wondered what you're wondering. On the other hand, my agent did a lot of good developmental editing and is a responsive, nice person, so I mostly assumed it was my book, and not her. But it's hard not to at least wonder.

ETA: The problem with trying to get a new agent for your new book, of course, is that I don't think you can try without telling your current agent or parting ways first, so it's a risk because what if you don't find a bigger agent to take the second book? Others here, especially people who have had more than one agent, can advise you better than I can. And I will be reading their answers with interest.
She’s been in the industry for ten years, but she only worked as an agent for a brief while about eight years ago before stepping back for family reasons. She kept working with her agency though in an editing capacity and just started taking on clients again. She is wonderful—a fabulous editor and responsive and all good things. The agency is established but small in that they stepped back on taking on new clients for quite some time and only recently got back into it.

I don’t really want a new agent—but at the same time, I don’t want to stack the odds even higher against me.
 
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Fuchsia Groan

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Bottom line: Can you get a good deal with a newer agent/smaller agency? Is my book not getting read quickly because of my agent’s status, or will editors read fast as long as they’re excited about the book regardless of the agent? It seems like timing matters a lot in terms of securing a good deal. I think a guest on @Harlequin’s show mentioned the importance of a big agent, and now I’m nervous.
My answer to the first question is yes, though it does depend on what you consider a “good deal.” My agent was newer when I signed with her, but she had worked in publishing, lived in NYC, and had contacts. She sent out the ms. she signed me for and got strong interest from one editor within a week. So that’s a second yes—the ms. was read quickly. Did an auction or a six-figure deal result? No. But a deal with a good publisher did.

That said, when it comes to whether editors read something quickly, I think luck was on my side. (Also, this was nearly 10 years ago—everything’s slower now.) Everything I’ve heard leads me to believe that submissions from rock star agents do tend to jump to the front of the line, and clients of those agents tend to get bigger deals. It makes a difference. But can you get a deal with a reputable agent who isn’t a rock star? In my experience, yes.
 

literaryguitar

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My answer to the first question is yes, though it does depend on what you consider a “good deal.” My agent was newer when I signed with her, but she had worked in publishing, lived in NYC, and had contacts. She sent out the ms. she signed me for and got strong interest from one editor within a week. So that’s a second yes—the ms. was read quickly. Did an auction or a six-figure deal result? No. But a deal with a good publisher did.

That said, when it comes to whether editors read something quickly, I think luck was on my side. (Also, this was nearly 10 years ago—everything’s slower now.) Everything I’ve heard leads me to believe that submissions from rock star agents do tend to jump to the front of the line, and clients of those agents tend to get bigger deals. It makes a difference. But can you get a deal with a reputable agent who isn’t a rock star? In my experience, yes.
The issue also is that it's hard to get a rock star agent, isn't it? Isn't it taking a big chance to leave an agent in the hopes of doing that?
 
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