The Next Circle of Hell, Vol. 2
- Thread starter Calla Lily
- Start date
That’s awesome! Congratulations! Is it YA fantasy, or am I thinking of someone else here?
Congratulations!! It's fabulous that you had two offers. If you don't mind my asking, what made you choose one over the other? Was it purely the amount offered, or were there other factors?
Thanks, everyone!
Yes, it's YA fantasy.
I did choose publisher A which offered a higher advance. But that was not the only reason that factored into my decision. Publisher B has a strong track record of YA fantasy sales while Publisher A's children's fiction department is much newer. But both my agent and an author friend of mine (who works in sales and marketing) felt that my book would get a lot more attention and a bigger marketing budget from Publisher A. As to the editors, the phone calls with both were so brief I didn't really get a strong feeling that I clicked with one better than the other.
Yes, it's YA fantasy.
I did choose publisher A which offered a higher advance. But that was not the only reason that factored into my decision. Publisher B has a strong track record of YA fantasy sales while Publisher A's children's fiction department is much newer. But both my agent and an author friend of mine (who works in sales and marketing) felt that my book would get a lot more attention and a bigger marketing budget from Publisher A. As to the editors, the phone calls with both were so brief I didn't really get a strong feeling that I clicked with one better than the other.
That's a huge factor, considering how much you hear about publishers expecting authors to do their own marketing.
I can understand your thinking about going with Publisher A, goddressofgliese! They have perhaps more of a vested interest in pushing your book. It can be hard to get a proper read on an editor (or an agent) just from a call.
Remind me, is this the YA fantasy I read a few chapters for you a while ago, or a different one? (Apologies if you told me this already!)
I heard back from my agent yesterday. She had been reading my new YA, which we hope we can use to negotiate a new contract with my publisher. Agent still doesn't feel the start is popping, which is a bit painful because I gutted the start once already, but she explained why, and she's right. She always is! And she did say my revisions so far have been a step in the right direction. Now my task is to figure out HOW to change it again, which I can't quite see right now. Somehow I always seem to struggle with Act 1 of the book, and annoyingly Act 1 arguably needs to be the best part!
Remind me, is this the YA fantasy I read a few chapters for you a while ago, or a different one? (Apologies if you told me this already!)
I heard back from my agent yesterday. She had been reading my new YA, which we hope we can use to negotiate a new contract with my publisher. Agent still doesn't feel the start is popping, which is a bit painful because I gutted the start once already, but she explained why, and she's right. She always is! And she did say my revisions so far have been a step in the right direction. Now my task is to figure out HOW to change it again, which I can't quite see right now. Somehow I always seem to struggle with Act 1 of the book, and annoyingly Act 1 arguably needs to be the best part!
Hi, all! I guess I am new to the forum, but in reality I started reading the thread at the beginning-- posts form 2015!-- when I first went on sub last fall, and started reading again when I went back on sub 6 weeks ago. I was so looking forward to actually "meeting" the people I read so many posts by, though most seem to be gone now! I wanted to tell Putt Putt and Shoeless that they were my heroes and gave me hope, being on sub with so many books and multiple agents before selling a book and then selling many (and a Netflix series!). I wanted to ask Sonya how her family in Ukraine are. But alas...
Things I've learned from reading all the posts since 2015:
1. That I am not alone in hating being on sub
2. A lot about the publishing industry
3. Writers have cats so, having a cat and running a cat rescue, I must be a real writer
4. There should be a book with backstories about ducks, for sure.
5. There used to be a lot more sub glitter and virtual alcohol and baked goods on this thread. Bring them back! Please! I can't drink alcohol in real life and am gluten free, so I really need some virtual whiskey sours and brownies.
6. I need to figure out how to add an avatar. I am a luddite.
I was about to write my sob/sub story, but I'm afraid that I'll write a long post and then it won't post, so I'll stop here and if it works, I'll post again about my MS and its sad, sad story.
Things I've learned from reading all the posts since 2015:
1. That I am not alone in hating being on sub
2. A lot about the publishing industry
3. Writers have cats so, having a cat and running a cat rescue, I must be a real writer
4. There should be a book with backstories about ducks, for sure.
5. There used to be a lot more sub glitter and virtual alcohol and baked goods on this thread. Bring them back! Please! I can't drink alcohol in real life and am gluten free, so I really need some virtual whiskey sours and brownies.
6. I need to figure out how to add an avatar. I am a luddite.
I was about to write my sob/sub story, but I'm afraid that I'll write a long post and then it won't post, so I'll stop here and if it works, I'll post again about my MS and its sad, sad story.
Wow, my post worked! Yes, this is the level of my technical prowess. I feel accomplished that I wrote something and pushed a button and it worked.
Warning-- I set out to write a summary of my experience subbing my novel but the post is about as long as the novel itself. Apologies. Feel free not to read of course, and I promise not to write more epic posts.
So I'm in the US and I've been writing since I was 6 years old, and I'm 50. I mostly wrote poetry and have published a lot of poetry, did an MFA in poetry, etc. Always wanted to write fiction but never took a class or anything, and, feeling like I needed to do something "more practical," I went to law school and was a legal aid lawyer (in the U.S. these are nonprofits that provide free legal services to indigent individuals and families). I then became disabled by a case of Lyme that went undiagnosed for 5+ years and really damaged my brain and body, and I haven't been able to work for 6 years. A few years into that, in 2019, I read a Susan Sontag essay about the novel that encouraged writers to throw out traditional conventions of novel writing, since they're just accidents of history, and write without expected structure, backstory, etc. So I started writing a literary fiction novel in vignettes rather than chapters, a story I'd had in my head for years. I wrote for about 20 min/day, some days and not others, and didn't even tell anyone, not even my spouse, until I was about halfway through and asked my poetry mentor if it was any good. She said it was, so I finished it.
It was only 48k at that point, too long for a Novella and too short for a novel. In the poetry world, if you don't already have books out, you get them published by submitting to publication contests with small presses or submitting to the small press reading periods cold. So I sent my 48k first draft to a bunch of contests and was shocked that it was a finalist or short or longlisted for a bunch of them. Including a pretty big contest, and the people who run that told me to get an agent for the book. So I nonchalantly queried, planning to try 100 agents and see if I got an offer. until I got an offer. After a few weeks I got an offer and took it. My agent's been an agent for 6 years and has sold mostly nonfiction, but is with an agency that repped the last National Book Award winner for fiction (or maybe two years ago now) and she's sold a couple of novels and she had about 2 hours' worth of notes on my MS on our call, so I signed with her. She told me to add 20k to the novel and a bunch of backstory, which I did, but she was ok with me leaving it in vignette form. It's a strange and dark and very psychological story that takes place in northern Canada in winter and has a nonbinary middle aged MC.
I was surprised my agent thought this very odd, dark, internal book written in vignettes and clocking in at 66k words could be sold to a Big 5 press, but she was gungho. Turns out my skepticism had legs. She cast a very wide net with Round 1 last fall, sending to more than 20 imprints, maybe 25 or so. I never got a sub list or asked for R's as they came in. After 3 months she called it on the round with 11 non-answers and the rest R's. Most of the R's were so incredibly complimentary and exuberant that they would make excellent book jacket quotes, if I only had a book that needed a book jacket. Most passed due to it not being a fit for them, some for saying it was too literary or too quiet or too internal or that the pacing seemed uneven (I think only one or two said that about the pacing), the two Canadian imprints didn't want it because it has a secondary character who is Cree and some scenes in a specific First Nation community, and though I got a sensitivity read from a northern Cree author who was very encouraging, the presses understandably said they want to promote Indigenous writers writing about Indigenous communities (though my book is only that in very small part). I was actually very impressed by this and think Canada is far ahead of the US on actually walking the walk with #ownvoices and not just talking the talk.
I revised quite a lot between rounds, cutting out some things and adding others and smoothing out the pace as best I could, and agent cast another wide net sending to over 30 editors, including new editors at the 11 imprints that hadn't responded the first time, a few new ones, and then also, at my request, a bunch of large indie presses that only accept agented submissions.
But, alas, last I heard we were down to 9 editors left and my agent was going to pitch two more. That was a week or more ago. In the meantime I'm guessing there have probably been more R's.
If no bites this round, it comes back to me. I know the smart thing would be to sit on it and write more and submit more, but I'm 50 and sick and would like to see it published, so I'll probably sub it to small Indies that don't require agents. My agent refuses to submit to any of those-- I don't think her agency allows it. It must look worse for their agency to be associated with such sales. I'm not happy about going back to the small Indies because authors need to do a lot of their own marketing, and I can't. I don't even have a single social media account, and don't want one. I have a website but haven't figured out how to even get it noticed by Google.
I did start writing something new, but it's another genre entirely, a collection of humorous creative nonfiction essays about the odd animals in my life (e.g. first chapter/essay is about Monster, my neurologically impaired squirrel). My agent doesn't rep memoir, says it's impossible to sell if the author isn't famous, and says my idea doesn't sound marketable to her. I have another book I'm planning to write that's a historical novel and she loves that idea and wants me to write it, but I'm really exhausted from health problems and from having 5 major deaths in my life since 11/20. The light animal stories are just easier to write right now, and my agent said she understands that. But it doesn't leave me in a good place publishing-wise. And I'm now not really writing much, realizing this and feeling depressed about it.
My 11 year old wrote an incredible flash fiction piece yesterday, better than almost any I've read by adults, and now I'm wondering if I'm barking up the wrong tree and instead of trying to write I should be learning how to be an agent to rep them...
End of novel.
Sub glitter and whiskey sours and brownies all around, especially to anyone who read this monstrosity of a post.
Warning-- I set out to write a summary of my experience subbing my novel but the post is about as long as the novel itself. Apologies. Feel free not to read of course, and I promise not to write more epic posts.
So I'm in the US and I've been writing since I was 6 years old, and I'm 50. I mostly wrote poetry and have published a lot of poetry, did an MFA in poetry, etc. Always wanted to write fiction but never took a class or anything, and, feeling like I needed to do something "more practical," I went to law school and was a legal aid lawyer (in the U.S. these are nonprofits that provide free legal services to indigent individuals and families). I then became disabled by a case of Lyme that went undiagnosed for 5+ years and really damaged my brain and body, and I haven't been able to work for 6 years. A few years into that, in 2019, I read a Susan Sontag essay about the novel that encouraged writers to throw out traditional conventions of novel writing, since they're just accidents of history, and write without expected structure, backstory, etc. So I started writing a literary fiction novel in vignettes rather than chapters, a story I'd had in my head for years. I wrote for about 20 min/day, some days and not others, and didn't even tell anyone, not even my spouse, until I was about halfway through and asked my poetry mentor if it was any good. She said it was, so I finished it.
It was only 48k at that point, too long for a Novella and too short for a novel. In the poetry world, if you don't already have books out, you get them published by submitting to publication contests with small presses or submitting to the small press reading periods cold. So I sent my 48k first draft to a bunch of contests and was shocked that it was a finalist or short or longlisted for a bunch of them. Including a pretty big contest, and the people who run that told me to get an agent for the book. So I nonchalantly queried, planning to try 100 agents and see if I got an offer. until I got an offer. After a few weeks I got an offer and took it. My agent's been an agent for 6 years and has sold mostly nonfiction, but is with an agency that repped the last National Book Award winner for fiction (or maybe two years ago now) and she's sold a couple of novels and she had about 2 hours' worth of notes on my MS on our call, so I signed with her. She told me to add 20k to the novel and a bunch of backstory, which I did, but she was ok with me leaving it in vignette form. It's a strange and dark and very psychological story that takes place in northern Canada in winter and has a nonbinary middle aged MC.
I was surprised my agent thought this very odd, dark, internal book written in vignettes and clocking in at 66k words could be sold to a Big 5 press, but she was gungho. Turns out my skepticism had legs. She cast a very wide net with Round 1 last fall, sending to more than 20 imprints, maybe 25 or so. I never got a sub list or asked for R's as they came in. After 3 months she called it on the round with 11 non-answers and the rest R's. Most of the R's were so incredibly complimentary and exuberant that they would make excellent book jacket quotes, if I only had a book that needed a book jacket. Most passed due to it not being a fit for them, some for saying it was too literary or too quiet or too internal or that the pacing seemed uneven (I think only one or two said that about the pacing), the two Canadian imprints didn't want it because it has a secondary character who is Cree and some scenes in a specific First Nation community, and though I got a sensitivity read from a northern Cree author who was very encouraging, the presses understandably said they want to promote Indigenous writers writing about Indigenous communities (though my book is only that in very small part). I was actually very impressed by this and think Canada is far ahead of the US on actually walking the walk with #ownvoices and not just talking the talk.
I revised quite a lot between rounds, cutting out some things and adding others and smoothing out the pace as best I could, and agent cast another wide net sending to over 30 editors, including new editors at the 11 imprints that hadn't responded the first time, a few new ones, and then also, at my request, a bunch of large indie presses that only accept agented submissions.
But, alas, last I heard we were down to 9 editors left and my agent was going to pitch two more. That was a week or more ago. In the meantime I'm guessing there have probably been more R's.
If no bites this round, it comes back to me. I know the smart thing would be to sit on it and write more and submit more, but I'm 50 and sick and would like to see it published, so I'll probably sub it to small Indies that don't require agents. My agent refuses to submit to any of those-- I don't think her agency allows it. It must look worse for their agency to be associated with such sales. I'm not happy about going back to the small Indies because authors need to do a lot of their own marketing, and I can't. I don't even have a single social media account, and don't want one. I have a website but haven't figured out how to even get it noticed by Google.
I did start writing something new, but it's another genre entirely, a collection of humorous creative nonfiction essays about the odd animals in my life (e.g. first chapter/essay is about Monster, my neurologically impaired squirrel). My agent doesn't rep memoir, says it's impossible to sell if the author isn't famous, and says my idea doesn't sound marketable to her. I have another book I'm planning to write that's a historical novel and she loves that idea and wants me to write it, but I'm really exhausted from health problems and from having 5 major deaths in my life since 11/20. The light animal stories are just easier to write right now, and my agent said she understands that. But it doesn't leave me in a good place publishing-wise. And I'm now not really writing much, realizing this and feeling depressed about it.
My 11 year old wrote an incredible flash fiction piece yesterday, better than almost any I've read by adults, and now I'm wondering if I'm barking up the wrong tree and instead of trying to write I should be learning how to be an agent to rep them...
End of novel.
Sub glitter and whiskey sours and brownies all around, especially to anyone who read this monstrosity of a post.
This is a great intro. Well done on garnering so much interest with Novel One - and don't give up on that one. Even if it's not actively out on sub, it's still a done thing that could well find home one day.Wow, my post worked! Yes, this is the level of my technical prowess. I feel accomplished that I wrote something and pushed a button and it worked.
Warning-- I set out to write a summary of my experience subbing my novel but the post is about as long as the novel itself. Apologies. Feel free not to read of course, and I promise not to write more epic posts.
So I'm in the US and I've been writing since I was 6 years old, and I'm 50. I mostly wrote poetry and have published a lot of poetry, did an MFA in poetry, etc. Always wanted to write fiction but never took a class or anything, and, feeling like I needed to do something "more practical," I went to law school and was a legal aid lawyer (in the U.S. these are nonprofits that provide free legal services to indigent individuals and families). I then became disabled by a case of Lyme that went undiagnosed for 5+ years and really damaged my brain and body, and I haven't been able to work for 6 years. A few years into that, in 2019, I read a Susan Sontag essay about the novel that encouraged writers to throw out traditional conventions of novel writing, since they're just accidents of history, and write without expected structure, backstory, etc. So I started writing a literary fiction novel in vignettes rather than chapters, a story I'd had in my head for years. I wrote for about 20 min/day, some days and not others, and didn't even tell anyone, not even my spouse, until I was about halfway through and asked my poetry mentor if it was any good. She said it was, so I finished it.
It was only 48k at that point, too long for a Novella and too short for a novel. In the poetry world, if you don't already have books out, you get them published by submitting to publication contests with small presses or submitting to the small press reading periods cold. So I sent my 48k first draft to a bunch of contests and was shocked that it was a finalist or short or longlisted for a bunch of them. Including a pretty big contest, and the people who run that told me to get an agent for the book. So I nonchalantly queried, planning to try 100 agents and see if I got an offer. until I got an offer. After a few weeks I got an offer and took it. My agent's been an agent for 6 years and has sold mostly nonfiction, but is with an agency that repped the last National Book Award winner for fiction (or maybe two years ago now) and she's sold a couple of novels and she had about 2 hours' worth of notes on my MS on our call, so I signed with her. She told me to add 20k to the novel and a bunch of backstory, which I did, but she was ok with me leaving it in vignette form. It's a strange and dark and very psychological story that takes place in northern Canada in winter and has a nonbinary middle aged MC.
I was surprised my agent thought this very odd, dark, internal book written in vignettes and clocking in at 66k words could be sold to a Big 5 press, but she was gungho. Turns out my skepticism had legs. She cast a very wide net with Round 1 last fall, sending to more than 20 imprints, maybe 25 or so. I never got a sub list or asked for R's as they came in. After 3 months she called it on the round with 11 non-answers and the rest R's. Most of the R's were so incredibly complimentary and exuberant that they would make excellent book jacket quotes, if I only had a book that needed a book jacket. Most passed due to it not being a fit for them, some for saying it was too literary or too quiet or too internal or that the pacing seemed uneven (I think only one or two said that about the pacing), the two Canadian imprints didn't want it because it has a secondary character who is Cree and some scenes in a specific First Nation community, and though I got a sensitivity read from a northern Cree author who was very encouraging, the presses understandably said they want to promote Indigenous writers writing about Indigenous communities (though my book is only that in very small part). I was actually very impressed by this and think Canada is far ahead of the US on actually walking the walk with #ownvoices and not just talking the talk.
I revised quite a lot between rounds, cutting out some things and adding others and smoothing out the pace as best I could, and agent cast another wide net sending to over 30 editors, including new editors at the 11 imprints that hadn't responded the first time, a few new ones, and then also, at my request, a bunch of large indie presses that only accept agented submissions.
But, alas, last I heard we were down to 9 editors left and my agent was going to pitch two more. That was a week or more ago. In the meantime I'm guessing there have probably been more R's.
If no bites this round, it comes back to me. I know the smart thing would be to sit on it and write more and submit more, but I'm 50 and sick and would like to see it published, so I'll probably sub it to small Indies that don't require agents. My agent refuses to submit to any of those-- I don't think her agency allows it. It must look worse for their agency to be associated with such sales. I'm not happy about going back to the small Indies because authors need to do a lot of their own marketing, and I can't. I don't even have a single social media account, and don't want one. I have a website but haven't figured out how to even get it noticed by Google.
I did start writing something new, but it's another genre entirely, a collection of humorous creative nonfiction essays about the odd animals in my life (e.g. first chapter/essay is about Monster, my neurologically impaired squirrel). My agent doesn't rep memoir, says it's impossible to sell if the author isn't famous, and says my idea doesn't sound marketable to her. I have another book I'm planning to write that's a historical novel and she loves that idea and wants me to write it, but I'm really exhausted from health problems and from having 5 major deaths in my life since 11/20. The light animal stories are just easier to write right now, and my agent said she understands that. But it doesn't leave me in a good place publishing-wise. And I'm now not really writing much, realizing this and feeling depressed about it.
My 11 year old wrote an incredible flash fiction piece yesterday, better than almost any I've read by adults, and now I'm wondering if I'm barking up the wrong tree and instead of trying to write I should be learning how to be an agent to rep them...
End of novel.
Sub glitter and whiskey sours and brownies all around, especially to anyone who read this monstrosity of a post.
I'm sorry about the challenges you've faced. I think you can only write what suits the moment, so my advice would be stay with the creative nf essays for the moment, and let the historical percolate away a little more. Also - writers don't have to be writing every minute, every month - or even every year*. Sometimes they need to step back and feed on other things. Fatten themselves back up, creatively speaking*.
My advice? Don't let agent-stress push you in either direction. Your agent works for you, and you've already proved yourself with her. If you and she parted ways at some point, another agent will be happy to step in, I'm sure.
Best of luck to you. You seem to be well on your way, though
ETA: I suspect someone will come in and say Yes they do if they want a career. Which is valid, but only to extent that said writer is likely to achieve a career - which is tricky enough. But I think if you're focused on literary, somewhat rule-breaking writing, then your writing is going to be a slower, and hungrier beast.
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Thank you. And regarding the career... yeah. Would I like a career writing and publishing books? Yes. Am I likely to achieve that even if I publish this book? No. I'm already middle aged, have limited energy due to disability and, as you said, I write literary and tend toward unconventional. So...
Reading this forum's past several years' activity, I've seen many people say that if an editor takes the time to write a paragraph or two about why they love the book even though it's an R, that they mean it and it's not just something they do to keep up a relationship with the agent. I don't know if I believe that, but if it's true, then editors liked the MS. My agent said she could tell we "got really close," but to my knowledge it never went to acquisitions or anything. In all honesty, I think the book's just left editors scratching their heads. It has no real comps. The three books I tried to claim as partial comps in my query letters were a stretch and my writing that, combined together, they sort of approximated the MS must have seemed ridiculous bordering on comical as they weren't even all the same genre and one was written like 30 years ago. I still think the real question is why my agent thought she could sell my MS to Big 5 imprints or the like in the first place. I had no hopes of that going in to this whole process, but she seemed to believe in the book so much that it got my hopes up unreasonably and now they're crushed.
Back a few years in this thread, there was a very young (like 24 years old) writer who quickly sold a dark literary novel at auction for some obscene amount and went on to become a bestseller. If I'd read that before sub, I would have been very excited. Reading it late in sub, it felt more like I should just close up shop. I was inspired by folks on here who got deals on their 3rd or 4th or 5th MS and now have many books out. But they all write some kind of genre, and they write unbelievably quickly and seem to have a never-ending stream of exciting and marketable ideas. I think the only non-genre literary fiction I've seen sell on here were two or three that sold extremely quickly, like within a couple of weeks. The few others people posted about didn't sell at all.
Welcome fellow Canadian. I know you're struggling but I also want to tell you congrats! You got an agent and editors seem to like your book, that's a huge accomplishment! I know sputtering out just before the finish line is frustrating, and you might have to leave your agent to pursue smaller pubs, but you've accomplished a lot!
Yeah I would take any publishing stories pre-pandemic with a sack of salt. It felt like everyone and their dog was getting a book deal back then, and many more books were getting six and seven figure advances (many of which, you could argue, probably didn't deserve it). There was likely more money to go around because they'd had a string of giga-hits from 50 Shades to Fault in our Stars, while Hollywood was also spraying down the fiction publishing industry with money as aggressively as a suburban dad sprays down his perfectly manicured lawn.
Now though? It's so much more conservative. Smaller advances, more safe bet books, and Hollywood is now adapting less modern fiction books and focusing much more on adapting classics (or as I call them, dead white guy books), not to mention the publishing industry is straining under issues caused by the pandemic, overwork, and under-pay.
Don't give up though, the market could very well flip again soon, and you'll suddenly have editors scrambling for your book. You never know.
Yeah I would take any publishing stories pre-pandemic with a sack of salt. It felt like everyone and their dog was getting a book deal back then, and many more books were getting six and seven figure advances (many of which, you could argue, probably didn't deserve it). There was likely more money to go around because they'd had a string of giga-hits from 50 Shades to Fault in our Stars, while Hollywood was also spraying down the fiction publishing industry with money as aggressively as a suburban dad sprays down his perfectly manicured lawn.
Now though? It's so much more conservative. Smaller advances, more safe bet books, and Hollywood is now adapting less modern fiction books and focusing much more on adapting classics (or as I call them, dead white guy books), not to mention the publishing industry is straining under issues caused by the pandemic, overwork, and under-pay.
Don't give up though, the market could very well flip again soon, and you'll suddenly have editors scrambling for your book. You never know.
Thanks, Cheesecake! I'm from the US (though thinking about moving to Canada, especially after yesterday!). My agent just subbed to the Big 5 imprints in Canada because of the setting of the book, most of which takes place in northern Ontario.
I just figured out how to edit my profile and added my country. What part of Canada are you in?
I don't think editors will scramble for a book already rejected, or that my or any other agent will re-sub it if my agent hands it back to me after it's been widely subbed. But maybe it's true that it was a particularly difficult time to sub risky material, I don't know.
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Whoops, my bad. Since your book takes place in Canada I figured you were Canadian. That's what I get for assuming, hah.
I live in the southern part of Ontario, around Ottawa.
I think it's probably uncommon for US agents of US authors to submit to imprints in Canada, so it's understandable you thought I was from Canada. Also, because maybe I should have known what I was talking about when writing about northern Ontario?
Someone in a critique group I'm in is from southern Ontario and currently reading my book and I keep waiting for her to tell me I got something wrong. But she hasn't actually spent time in northern Ontario either, so...My family is seriously looking into moving to Canada. My spouse would like to get a teaching job up there (he's a professor) and not look back. I've been resistant because I have elderly and dependent family members here, and I also don't like the idea of just giving up on my country, but I gotta say Canada looks better and better by the day. Yesterday was my breaking point and I told him to go ahead and see if he can find a way.
What do you write and where are you in the sub process? Apologies if you already wrote this somewhere above. I did a marathon reading of this text thread and don't remember everything, and it seems to have had long strange gaps in recent months, maybe since it went offline for months and then came back.
The sub glitter works, for real! I feel that whenever it got thrown around, good things happened on this thread. So... *throws sub glitter everywhere* This thread has gone a little quieter than before, it's true, but it can always pick up again! I know plenty of us are on sub at the moment.
Welcome, literaryguitar! Thanks for sharing your writing and sub story - I am sorry for your health hardships and difficulties, and also sorry that it looks like this book is running out of steam with the editors your agent has chosen to sub to. Their responses do show that you're doing something major right, though, and even though I know it's hard in a wave of Rs, that is something to hold onto. If editors feedback positively about the book, they mean it. I've had enough editor rejections to believe that wholeheartedly. And I also echo what mccarery said - you don't need to write every day to write. Some people (on here, for example) are very fast, and it can make the rest of us feel we should be, too - but there really is no one way to write.
I do think, like CheesecakeMe says, that buying has changed since the pandemic - in positive ways as well as more conservative, I'd say. For example, in the UK, books did really well during the pandemic, and certainly from those in the industry I've spoken to, some of them find they have more freedom with acquisitions than they did a while ago. And some categories are starting to pick up more than they were years ago - YA in the UK being one of them. (It's not a boom, just more of a steady uptick - but still, good news!)
Welcome, literaryguitar! Thanks for sharing your writing and sub story - I am sorry for your health hardships and difficulties, and also sorry that it looks like this book is running out of steam with the editors your agent has chosen to sub to. Their responses do show that you're doing something major right, though, and even though I know it's hard in a wave of Rs, that is something to hold onto. If editors feedback positively about the book, they mean it. I've had enough editor rejections to believe that wholeheartedly. And I also echo what mccarery said - you don't need to write every day to write. Some people (on here, for example) are very fast, and it can make the rest of us feel we should be, too - but there really is no one way to write.
I do think, like CheesecakeMe says, that buying has changed since the pandemic - in positive ways as well as more conservative, I'd say. For example, in the UK, books did really well during the pandemic, and certainly from those in the industry I've spoken to, some of them find they have more freedom with acquisitions than they did a while ago. And some categories are starting to pick up more than they were years ago - YA in the UK being one of them. (It's not a boom, just more of a steady uptick - but still, good news!)
Also (sorry double post, on a somewhat glitchy device that doesn't like post edits): I think one thing I'd say about people who seem to get a stream of deals is that, once you're in with a publisher, you're in, and if the book they signed is selling OK, that makes them much more likely to offer more deals - especially if they like working with you, and trust your writing. And it's easier to push through new deals once you're "known". Which brings me to...
I seem to be on sub again?! The book I released in April was a one book deal, and my agent wants to get me back under contract with my current publisher. The good will seems to be there, so my next book is being taken by my current editor to meetings. EEK. Am cautiously optimistic, but trying not to get ahead of myself...*touches wood*
I seem to be on sub again?! The book I released in April was a one book deal, and my agent wants to get me back under contract with my current publisher. The good will seems to be there, so my next book is being taken by my current editor to meetings. EEK. Am cautiously optimistic, but trying not to get ahead of myself...*touches wood*
Raggy, I read all the posts here, and YOU are one of the fast writers!
Good luck on sub! But this seems kind of like half-sub? Like it's going straight to acquisitions with the one press? Would they offer you less if they know they are getting an exclusive look at it and there's no chance of competition/auction? Or does that not matter when you're already in the door with a publisher, that they'll make their best offer because they want to keep you and know you'll take it elsewhere if they don't?
I've lost track of how many book deals you've gotten at this point. Would this be your seventh published book or your eighth? You are also one of my heroes from this thread, in addition to Putt Putt and Shoeless, because you were out of the game for a long time and felt hopeless and yet just kept writing and submitting, changed agents, and got your foot back in the door and now it seems like you're getting a couple of books per year published? And what a testament to the difference a new agent can make.
I would love to be able to write as quickly and determinedly as you do. I hope I can get at least get one or two more MS's written in my lifetime.
I read back through my first round R's (haven't gotten second round yet) and I see that my MS was sent for other reads a couple of times (e.g. one editor said they'd gotten two other editors to read it but they ultimately decided it wasn't right for the imprint's list). I don't think I understood what that meant the first time, before I'd read so much of this thread. I still don't think it was acquisitions, though. They'd explicitly say that in the R, right? That it went to acquisitions and didn't make it through? Or call it something other than editors, like marketing or sales or something? Or tell my agent, who would have then told me that rather than "we got close"?
It certainly does seem like a lot of deals have gone through for people on this thread since the pandemic started and it's not that no one's buying (at least in YA and adult romance and fantasy). And if I remember correctly, some of what people have sold during the pandemic has been dark. But maybe dark scary or dark creepy is different than dark sad or dark contemplative. Or maybe it's just my MS.
ETA: More sub glitter for everyone! Someone on here a while ago poured a bucket of it on someone. Let's have a bucket for everyone! You get a bucket, and you get a bucket, and you get a bucket!
Good luck on sub! But this seems kind of like half-sub? Like it's going straight to acquisitions with the one press? Would they offer you less if they know they are getting an exclusive look at it and there's no chance of competition/auction? Or does that not matter when you're already in the door with a publisher, that they'll make their best offer because they want to keep you and know you'll take it elsewhere if they don't?
I've lost track of how many book deals you've gotten at this point. Would this be your seventh published book or your eighth? You are also one of my heroes from this thread, in addition to Putt Putt and Shoeless, because you were out of the game for a long time and felt hopeless and yet just kept writing and submitting, changed agents, and got your foot back in the door and now it seems like you're getting a couple of books per year published? And what a testament to the difference a new agent can make.
I would love to be able to write as quickly and determinedly as you do. I hope I can get at least get one or two more MS's written in my lifetime.
I read back through my first round R's (haven't gotten second round yet) and I see that my MS was sent for other reads a couple of times (e.g. one editor said they'd gotten two other editors to read it but they ultimately decided it wasn't right for the imprint's list). I don't think I understood what that meant the first time, before I'd read so much of this thread. I still don't think it was acquisitions, though. They'd explicitly say that in the R, right? That it went to acquisitions and didn't make it through? Or call it something other than editors, like marketing or sales or something? Or tell my agent, who would have then told me that rather than "we got close"?
It certainly does seem like a lot of deals have gone through for people on this thread since the pandemic started and it's not that no one's buying (at least in YA and adult romance and fantasy). And if I remember correctly, some of what people have sold during the pandemic has been dark. But maybe dark scary or dark creepy is different than dark sad or dark contemplative. Or maybe it's just my MS.
ETA: More sub glitter for everyone! Someone on here a while ago poured a bucket of it on someone. Let's have a bucket for everyone! You get a bucket, and you get a bucket, and you get a bucket!
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Ah, thank you, literaryguitar! I'll take being called a thread hero! I don't feel like a quick writer - I just have a lot of time I can spend on writing at the moment, which helps! you're right, I was out of the game for many years, in a bad agent relationship and several trunked novels after being published. This book on sub now would be - if it were accepted - book number 7. This year will be the first time I'll have had two books out in a year, which is weird but nice.
I guess it kind of his a half-sub if it's exclusive! I don't think having an exclusive sub would be something a publisher would use to offer less - in theory, they should want the ms, because they want to build an author brand, and if we go elsewhere, they've lost that. I guess I'll find out! I often vascillate with my thoughts on advances - high ones are obviously great, but I suppose having my fingers burned before with an unearned advance, I feel more comfortable having advances I look likelier to earn out.
If your book went for other reads, in my experience (and someone else may chip in with something different) that means a few editors in the house read it, to give second opinions to help the editor decide whether to take to acquisitions (which is a fair deal of work for them.) I've had this before - it definitely means your ms is hitting the right notes, even if it didn't go into any other meetings. The other editors who read it may have loved the book but have had commercial concerns, for instance, or pointed out book clashes on the house's list - if they advised the editor in question not to take it forwards, that can still have been a positive thing.
Eternal sub glitter! Who actually IS on sub right now? I feel I know a few but not everyone.
I guess it kind of his a half-sub if it's exclusive! I don't think having an exclusive sub would be something a publisher would use to offer less - in theory, they should want the ms, because they want to build an author brand, and if we go elsewhere, they've lost that. I guess I'll find out! I often vascillate with my thoughts on advances - high ones are obviously great, but I suppose having my fingers burned before with an unearned advance, I feel more comfortable having advances I look likelier to earn out.
If your book went for other reads, in my experience (and someone else may chip in with something different) that means a few editors in the house read it, to give second opinions to help the editor decide whether to take to acquisitions (which is a fair deal of work for them.) I've had this before - it definitely means your ms is hitting the right notes, even if it didn't go into any other meetings. The other editors who read it may have loved the book but have had commercial concerns, for instance, or pointed out book clashes on the house's list - if they advised the editor in question not to take it forwards, that can still have been a positive thing.
Eternal sub glitter! Who actually IS on sub right now? I feel I know a few but not everyone.