The Magnificent Six

[Timbrian]

When writing a military campaign, does one need to know tactics? I have no knowledge of military tactics. I'm writing a western that has it in the story. The six-man army has to free a Mexican leader from the French. My version of the Magnificent Seven.

 

[Unimportant]

Yes.

Military tactics, like everything else, can be learnt.

 

[Norsebard]

When writing a military campaign, does one need to know tactics?

Generally speaking, yes...

I'm writing a western that has it in the story. The six-man army has to free a Mexican leader from the French. My version of the Magnificent Seven.

... but in this case, I'd say no, you don't need to know military tactics to write such a story - or rather, it strongly depends on the design of your characters and the tone of the story.


- Who's the commander of the six-man strong outfit, and what's that character's background? Active military? Older, retired army colonel? A charming rogue who was dishonorably discharged for being too charming and roguish (if such a thing existed back then, I dunno) ?

- How did he round up the five men he's commanding? Were they snared in by gold or other personal financial gain? Are they some of the commander's old chums who are itchin' to get back in the fight to prove the pencil pushers wrong?

Your Magnificent Seven reference hints at strong-willed individualists who are unlikely to follow any kind of military disciplin or tactics. If the men are closer to a modern-day special forces unit than a 'Dirty Half-Dozen,' the situation is different, of course.

- So, who are the men?

Norsebard

 

[Timbrian]

The men are Major Jack Harris, the leader. Luke Edington, Uly Ward, Ezra Bishop, Vester Hays and
André LaRue, a French prisoner.

 

[Maryn]

I'd say you probably need to understand the basics of military tactics and strategies. What you absolutely need to know is how these six individuals work together to free the prisoner, down to the details. It's likely to involve at least some military tactics.

I'd start with basic questions any military commander would consider--and any writer.

• Why do they want this prisoner freed? What's in it for them?
• Why this group and not any other?
• Who's in charge and how strong is his command?
• Who are each of the men under his command? What are their military skills?
• What weapons do they have? For guns, how many shots, speed of reloading, etc.?
• What are each man's weaknesses? On what are their loyalties based?
• How do the men communicate during their raid?
• Where is the prisoner housed and what is the security like?
• How do they learn that? How reliable is the information?
• How can that security be breached?
• As a group, do they have the skills to do it easily, or is it a long shot?
• If they succeed, how will they transport the freed prisoner?
• How do they intend to get away?

It's a lot to think through and research. But writers research a lot (I write erotica and even that takes a ton of research, not much of it as fun as you'd think), and the internet is only a starting point.

Librarians can be enormously helpful once you determine the exact information you need. "I need to know how a small group could free a prisoner in the Old West" is way too broad. But "I need information on handguns in wide distribution in the Old West" is not.

Maryn, reminding you to take written notes

 

[Timbrian]

Might have to withdraw from the story and just simply write another one. As this seems a little too difficult to write. But thanks all the same.

 

[Norsebard]

The men are Major Jack Harris, the leader. Luke Edington, Uly Ward, Ezra Bishop, Vester Hays and André LaRue, a French prisoner.

Good names - but I have to admit I was thinking more along the lines of what kind of background, skills etc. the characters have

Might have to withdraw from the story and just simply write another one. As this seems a little too difficult to write. But thanks all the same.

Well, that's obviously your choice, but there's definitely a potential for some good, ol' Westurhn-style action and excitement in your story. I'll bet that plenty of people still prefer to read a pulp Western rather than a 100% historically accurate one, so... maybe a 'pulpish' approach would be the best thing for it...? Just thinking out loud


Norsebard

 

[Maryn]

I'm going to put on a suit, put my hair up, put on my stern face, and peer at you over my glasses, Timbrian, for some tough love.

Now you know that in order to write this you have to learn the hard facts about some aspects of the plot by doing research. You also have to come up with pretty deep character development, including the individual characters' skills that can impact the plot. This will take time and effort.

This is what writers do.

For real, ask the people here with trade published books in their signatures how much research they did on the book and about what. You'll learn it was a fair amount, whether they're writing fantasy in invented worlds, erotic romance set in Milwaukee, or YA adventure in the high desert. Westerns are no exception.

Writers don't just dream something up and write it. There are always details to master and facts to make consistent, so the reader who happens to know this stuff won't spot a huge and fully avoidable mistake causing him to throw your book at the wall or into the trash before writing a scathing review that the author earned by not doing the work.

If you want to write books that sell, you simply have to be willing to put in the effort. There aren't any shortcuts other than getting good at research. It's a learnable skill. If you can't or won't do the work a book requires, maybe this isn't the best way to approach writing for other people to read.

Maryn, removing the glasses and giving you a squeeze around the shoulders

 

[Unimportant]

For real, ask the people here with trade published books in their signatures how much research they did on the book and about what.

Gosh, yes. One of the first short stories I wrote, I spent about a hundred hours researching the setting -- New York City, early twentieth century -- to make sure I nailed every freakin' detail. I think I sold the story for, like, thirty dollars, which I guess works out to a pay rate of about thirty cents per hour. But I was, and still am, bloody proud of that story.

 

[Maryn]

I've learned a ridiculous amount about body building, swimming pool maintenance, car camping, and women's prisons, among other things, for my WIP. I think it was worth it; when my characters mention or do these things, it seems real and natural, even though I don't do any of those things. That's the value of research.

 

[SWoodham]

When writing a military campaign, does one need to know tactics? I have no knowledge of military tactics. I'm writing a western that has it in the story. The six-man army has to free a Mexican leader from the French. My version of the Magnificent Seven.

My historically inspired fantasy YES. I'm telling you studying the military strategy and battle tactics of the inspired group is so helpful. I avoided writing the battle/ war until the very last chapter. I wrote absolutely everything first. But then once I decided who the enemy was, and studied YouTube. videos about how they fought, helped me know how to frame the narrative, what my characters were doing in the battle. Everything.

 

[frimble3]

Why do they want this prisoner freed? What's in it for them?
Why this group and not any other?
Who's in charge and how strong is his command?
Who are each of the men under his command? What are their military skills?
What weapons do they have? For guns, how many shots, speed of reloading, etc.?
What are each man's weaknesses? On what are their loyalties based?
How do the men communicate during their raid?
Where is the prisoner housed and what is the security like?
How do they learn that? How reliable is the information?
How can that security be breached?
As a group, do they have the skills to do it easily, or is it a long shot?
If they succeed, how will they transport the freed prisoner?
How do they intend to get away

Timbrian, these don't need to refer only to a military group. Any group of guys trying to break someone out of a larger group's headquarters, military or not, will need this.
Say your guys are a bunch of gangsters, trying to break a buddy (or an enemy) out of jail, or prison. Same questions.
Or a bunch of cowboys, trying to get their boss out of the sheriff's office.
A bunch of teenagers, trying to get a buddy out of detention. Same questions.
Don't give up, you don't need to know about the 'great battles of history'.
Just plan it out, as if you were the guy who thinks of doing this.

 

[dpaterso]

Kinda late to the party... you know The Magnificent Seven, have you ever caught The Professionals? Lee Marvin, Burt Lancaster, Woody Strode, Robert Ryan, Jack Palance. A bunch of seasoned veterans with different skills are hired to rescue a rich rancher's wife who's been kidnapped by a tough bandit leader and his gang. I'm not saying don't read and research, but a movie with a similar premise to yours can give plenty of fresh thoughts on how to do things.

 

[RBEmerson]

When writing a military campaign, does one need to know tactics? I have no knowledge of military tactics. I'm writing a western that has it in the story. The six-man army has to free a Mexican leader from the French. My version of the Magnificent Seven.

(The following is a further attempt to put off dealing with a currently intractable plot problem in my WIP. [/ wink])

Trying to describe "six against many" in a credible way demands having tactical background information on hand when shaping the story. Otherwise, the results will read like someone writing about baking a soufflé in a covered wagon rolling over rocky ground - a leeeeetle short on credibility.

Consider this basic tenet of military doctrine. "Defenders almost always have the upper hand". (Yes, there are exceptions, some are obvious)

The hostage-holders have all the time in the world to dig in, fortify, lay in provisions, and don't have to move around to repel attacks. The attackers have to carry everything with them (or cache it nearby, a limitation in itself), they can only carry so much (how much does enough ammunition to blow the Federales or whoever into history weigh? How mobile is anyone carrying that weight?). Options for protection from the defenders' fire is limited(!) or the attacker(s) can't move - hard to achieve the mission goal that way.

(Yes, this is almost necro-posting, and AFAIK the OP gave up on the project, but at least I managed to do something other than stare at
The telegram to Sheriff Zager said, “Looking for Beale tally book. In house?”

Gus shrugged. “You think it’s there?”

“Unless Mr. Nielson performs a miracle—“

“Which Sheriff Giddens might bring him to doing.”

“Unless a miracle happens, searching Beale’s place is our best hope.”

Nodding, Gus said, “’fraid you’re right, Mister Deputy Detective."

Gus' thoughtful expression changed to a grin.

“I don’t know about you, but I sho could stand to wrap me around a hot dinner.
“Show what a fine person I am, I’ll buy you dinner, too.”

“I recall a certain deputy, not to name names, who warned me about folks being tricky if they worked at it. I was told the worst sort were tricky, and didn’t have to work at it.
“Why is it you don’t look like you’re workin’ hard, Deputy Mallory?”

“You’ll find out.” Gus laughed like he’d heard the funniest joke of the day. I wondered what my dinner was going to cost me.
- - - - - -
I haven't a clue as to what Gus Mallory's "free" meal is going to cost Cade Miller.

 

[Gramps]

Gosh, yes. One of the first short stories I wrote, I spent about a hundred hours researching the setting -- New York City, early twentieth century -- to make sure I nailed every freakin' detail. I think I sold the story for, like, thirty dollars, which I guess works out to a pay rate of about thirty cents per hour. But I was, and still am, bloody proud of that story.

There you go bragging about untold wealth from your very first short story.

 

[Gramps]

There will be those familiar with military tactics who as a reader would challenge some of your descriptions, but is that your target audience? Are you planning a book signing at a military convention?

IMO, you make every reasonable effort to answer questions such as Maryn presented to get the facts in your head. The reader may never see all the various tactics, but you as the author need to be aware. Then, write your story. The military unit on the outskirts of the outskirts probably are not behaving like frontline troops. This is just my opinion.

 

[RBEmerson]

It would help to read, for examples, Sun Tzu The Art of War and von Clausewitz On War, to write something that seems plausible. OTOH, quoting them frequently and extensively... not the best idea. [/ grin]